THE SHOWBOAT engages THE IRON CHANCELLOR

[miletus12]

I look forward to see if the usual Lutjens / Lindemann imbroglio surfaces in this ATL.

As always: I get nervous when the wrong captain gets the wrong ship.

Oscar Badger could be a disaster. I remember "him" from Bull's Run.

[lordroel]

May 1, 2022 0:56:37 GMT oscssw said:

Apr 29, 2022 18:09:53 GMT lordroel said:

Ore in Senior Chief case, have live true it.

Old guy jokes are always greatly appreciated, especially when I have been living on borrowed time since Feb '68. 

Now I'm not admitting how old I really am but my first DivO was named Noah and that was long before he got his first and only command...The Ark.  Ran it into a mountain top and the Court  Martial Board put him on the beach with a bucket and shovel   ....   for good.

I am sorry if i offended you, my apologies Senior Chief.

[oscssw]

May 1, 2022 6:42:24 GMT lordroel said:

May 1, 2022 0:56:37 GMT oscssw said:

Old guy jokes are always greatly appreciated, especially when I have been living on borrowed time since Feb '68. 

Now I'm not admitting how old I really am but my first DivO was named Noah and that was long before he got his first and only command...The Ark.  Ran it into a mountain top and the Court  Martial Board put him on the beach with a bucket and shovel   ....   for good.

I am sorry if i offended you, my apologies Senior Chief.

Please believe me my friend; absolutely no offense was taken. 

Now if you had cut off my Single malt supply or confiscated my cigars I would have been thoroughly offended.  In very short order my "Second" T. J. Lyons, would be calling on your "second" to arrange a duel. In accordance with Irish Code Duello or the Irish Dueling Code, I am the "offended party" AKA The Challenger so YOU choose the weapons and the place.

Our seconds come to a mutual agreement as to the Time.

 
Rule 16. The challenged has the right to choose his own weapon, unless the challenger gives his honor he is no swordsman; after which, however, he cannot decline any second species of weapon proposed by the challenger.
Rule 17. The challenged chooses his ground; the challenger chooses his distance; the seconds fix the time and terms of firing terms.

Since I am equally terrible with all weapons, I choose one yard distance. So choose a weapon that suits you best.

My second will strongly suggest to your second Dawn on a date as soon as possible. No use wasting valuable time over thinking this shindig or wasting the best part of a day.

AS to the Ground, which is entirely your choice, I would humbly suggest the nearest best pub with sufficient back yard room. Why a pub?  Before the duel we can toast each other's bravery and lack of common sense.  After the duel it would be my great privilege to Toast the loss of a very good man.   

[lordroel]

May 1, 2022 18:41:30 GMT oscssw said:

May 1, 2022 6:42:24 GMT lordroel said:

I am sorry if i offended you, my apologies Senior Chief.

Since I am equally terrible with all weapons, I choose one yard distance. So choose a weapon that suits you best.

My second will strongly suggest to your second Dawn on a date as soon as possible. No use wasting valuable time over thinking this shindig or wasting the best part of a day.

Senior Chief, i surrender, shooting somebody will prevent me to enter the United States in the future and i do love to see some of the big guns i still have on my list to visit.

[stevep]

May 1, 2022 18:41:30 GMT oscssw said:

May 1, 2022 6:42:24 GMT lordroel said:

I am sorry if i offended you, my apologies Senior Chief.

Please believe me my friend; absolutely no offense was taken. 

Now if you had cut off my Single malt supply or confiscated my cigars I would have been thoroughly offended.  In very short order my "Second" T. J. Lyons, would be calling on your "second" to arrange a duel. In accordance with Irish Code Duello or the Irish Dueling Code, I am the "offended party" AKA The Challenger so YOU choose the weapons and the place.

Our seconds come to a mutual agreement as to the Time.

 
Rule 16. The challenged has the right to choose his own weapon, unless the challenger gives his honor he is no swordsman; after which, however, he cannot decline any second species of weapon proposed by the challenger.
Rule 17. The challenged chooses his ground; the challenger chooses his distance; the seconds fix the time and terms of firing terms.

Since I am equally terrible with all weapons, I choose one yard distance. So choose a weapon that suits you best.

My second will strongly suggest to your second Dawn on a date as soon as possible. No use wasting valuable time over thinking this shindig or wasting the best part of a day.

AS to the Ground, which is entirely your choice, I would humbly suggest the nearest best pub with sufficient back yard room. Why a pub?  Before the duel we can toast each other's bravery and lack of common sense.  After the duel it would be my great privilege to Toast the loss of a very good man.   

  I'm not accepting the role of Lordroel's 2nd but may I suggest he considers as the weapons for the pair of you French bread rolls.   Say not longer than 1m each. That should enable satisfaction in an orgy of violence without either of you facing serious consequences from the authorities anywhere.

[oscssw]

May 1, 2022 3:08:26 GMT miletus12 said:

I look forward to see if the usual Lutjens / Lindemann imbroglio surfaces in this ATL.

As always: I get nervous when the wrong captain gets the wrong ship.

Oscar Badger could be a disaster. I remember "him" from Bull's Run.

Thanks for the Steer -4 miletus12.  I think I can use some of those folks in this ATL, especially

-Commander Kemp Tolley, Navigator

-Commander Joe Stryker, Executive Officer

Harold Smith, Firecontrolman 1/c.  That enlisted FT will come in handy as a foil for the sailors who worked with radar.

I also need to find a Radar experienced EM(Electrician’s Mate) or RM (Radio Man)CPO.

Here is a little family history 

EM's association with the operational side of radar was very short but they were often called upon to do repair work on the sets. The radio men were considered a better fit for Radar ops because they knew how to both operate and repair "Radio" devices and so often found themselves press ganged as"Scope Dopes".   On the whole, experienced RMs wanted nothing to do with Radar for a number of reasons.   Radar duty meant standing a whole lot more watches than RMs because trained Radar men were very, very scarce (and still are) so the poor bastards had to stand port and starboard watches instead of 3 or 4 sections as senior RMs).   Those watches could go from long boring periods to extremely stressful in seconds.  Even before the development of CICs, those watches were under the close scrutiny of senior officers; sailors liked to avoid the brass as much as possible. 

In 1943 Bureau of Personnel (BUPERS) established the Radarman rating (RdM).   Because many of the early Radarmen had previously served as Radiomen, the rating badge symbol used the electrical spark bolts (three rather than the four seen on the Radioman’s insignia) with an overlaid arrow indicating the directional detection aspects of the job, indicating the rating’s origins and the technology from radio.  In 1946, the Navy updated the insignia, incorporating the oscillator symbol while carrying over the arrow insignia. In 1950, the RdM rating changed to RD. We Operations Specialist still use the 1946 rating badge.

Now you know why radar plays a big part in this ATL.  Write about what you know was what my parochial school taught me a very long time ago.

[lordroel]

May 2, 2022 14:39:35 GMT stevep said:

May 1, 2022 18:41:30 GMT oscssw said:

Please believe me my friend; absolutely no offense was taken. 

Now if you had cut off my Single malt supply or confiscated my cigars I would have been thoroughly offended.  In very short order my "Second" T. J. Lyons, would be calling on your "second" to arrange a duel. In accordance with Irish Code Duello or the Irish Dueling Code, I am the "offended party" AKA The Challenger so YOU choose the weapons and the place.

Our seconds come to a mutual agreement as to the Time.

 
Rule 16. The challenged has the right to choose his own weapon, unless the challenger gives his honor he is no swordsman; after which, however, he cannot decline any second species of weapon proposed by the challenger.
Rule 17. The challenged chooses his ground; the challenger chooses his distance; the seconds fix the time and terms of firing terms.

Since I am equally terrible with all weapons, I choose one yard distance. So choose a weapon that suits you best.

My second will strongly suggest to your second Dawn on a date as soon as possible. No use wasting valuable time over thinking this shindig or wasting the best part of a day.

AS to the Ground, which is entirely your choice, I would humbly suggest the nearest best pub with sufficient back yard room. Why a pub?  Before the duel we can toast each other's bravery and lack of common sense.  After the duel it would be my great privilege to Toast the loss of a very good man.   

  I'm not accepting the role of Lordroel's 2nd but may I suggest he considers as the weapons for the pair of you French bread rolls.   Say not longer than 1m each. That should enable satisfaction in an orgy of violence without either of you facing serious consequences from the authorities anywhere.

As Senior Chief (oscssw) can handle more alcohol than me i think, a duel with us drinking each 6 glasses of Ouzo, i can guarantee the Chief will have me beaten on my third glass.

[stevep]

May 2, 2022 14:40:49 GMT oscssw said:

May 1, 2022 3:08:26 GMT miletus12 said:

I look forward to see if the usual Lutjens / Lindemann imbroglio surfaces in this ATL.

As always: I get nervous when the wrong captain gets the wrong ship.

Oscar Badger could be a disaster. I remember "him" from Bull's Run.

Thanks for the Steer -4 miletus12.  I think I can use some of those folks in this ATL, especially

-Commander Kemp Tolley, Navigator

-Commander Joe Stryker, Executive Officer

Harold Smith, Firecontrolman 1/c.  That enlisted FT will come in handy as a foil for the sailors who worked with radar.

I also need to find a Radar experienced EM(Electrician’s Mate) or RM (Radio Man)CPO.

Here is a little family history 

EM's association with the operational side of radar was very short but they were often called upon to do repair work on the sets. The radio men were considered a better fit for Radar ops because they knew how to both operate and repair "Radio" devices and so often found themselves press ganged as"Scope Dopes".   On the whole, experienced RMs wanted nothing to do with Radar for a number of reasons.   Radar duty meant standing a whole lot more watches than RMs because trained Radar men were very, very scarce (and still are) so the poor bastards had to stand port and starboard watches instead of 3 or 4 sections as senior RMs).   Those watches could go from long boring periods to extremely stressful in seconds.  Even before the development of CICs, those watches were under the close scrutiny of senior officers; sailors liked to avoid the brass as much as possible. 

In 1943 Bureau of Personnel (BUPERS) established the Radarman rating (RdM).   Because many of the early Radarmen had previously served as Radiomen, the rating badge symbol used the electrical spark bolts (three rather than the four seen on the Radioman’s insignia) with an overlaid arrow indicating the directional detection aspects of the job, indicating the rating’s origins and the technology from radio.  In 1946, the Navy updated the insignia, incorporating the oscillator symbol while carrying over the arrow insignia. In 1950, the RdM rating changed to RD. We Operations Specialist still use the 1946 rating badge.

Now you know why radar plays a big part in this ATL.  Write about what you know was what my parochial school taught me a very long time ago.

  I like that abbreviation, although partly because I used to play an Avalon Hill Game called Advanced Third Reich where as it said in the rules the unit for funds/resources was known as the Basic Resource Point, "commonly abbreviated to burps".  Me and a mate got so used to the term we ended up using it for other games we played later on.

[miletus12]

May 2, 2022 14:40:49 GMT oscssw said:

Thanks for the Steer -4 miletus12.  I think I can use some of those folks in this ATL, especially

-Commander Kemp Tolley, Navigator

-Commander Joe Stryker, Executive Officer

Harold Smith, Firecontrolman 1/c.  That enlisted FT will come in handy as a foil for the sailors who worked with radar.

I also need to find a Radar experienced EM(Electrician’s Mate) or RM (Radio Man)CPO.

Ask and you shall receive.

The Combat Information Center crew, 1945. Jerry Johnson and Everette Beaver are in the photo.

A group of us whose last name began with B were all assigned to the radar gang for some deep secret that only the military would know why. That was in November of 1942. Even the word radar was classified at the time. You could not reveal it stood for radio detection and ranging. We had an old set of bedsprings [CXAM] up on our foremost. The little air search radar was just a small cathode ray tube and it had no calibrations on it whatsoever. We had a little piece of scotch tape across the front of it and marked in ink were increments of 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 and 60.

By practice and error we had no way of determining altitude…or how many there might be in a group. We could just pick up some signals coming in. That was the early radar. We were one of the few ships in the formation that was equipped with radar.

They called the new radar gang CT Division, communications technician. They didn’t know what else to do with it. Even the radar rate was the same as the radio rate except it had an arrow through it. It grew. It became more sophisticated.

You are trained to detect something that wasn’t normal. Of course, trying to determine what is clouds because the radar would pick up cloud formation and you would get a signal back. It had no speed and no direction. Prematurely we went to air defense many times at night when someone called that they had contact and didn’t.”

-Everette Beaver, Radarman 2/c
Attended Radar Operators School in October 1943

Jerry Johnson describes radar aboard the Battleship North Carolina.

“Radars are devices which the Allies use to detect the approach of enemy aircraft and ships, and to determine the distance (range) to the enemies’ forces. It is one of the marvels made possible by the electron tube. Radars operate through fog, storms, and darkness, as well as through cloudless skies. They are, therefore, superior to both telescopes and acoustic listening devices.”

The First Public Account of Radar in Bureau of Naval Personnel Information Bulletin, June 1943


Lowell Price Tabor seated at the air search radar after June 1945.

“When we first went into commission [April 1941], the thought of radar was just fantastic. When you consider your antiaircraft, you are completely flatfooted until some joker drops out of the clouds. You have a different problem than if you have advanced warning as to their approach.”

-LCDR John Kirkpatrick
Assistant Gunnery Officer and Air Defense Officer


Photograph of the Battleship’s guns firing during the Shakedown cruise. The CXAM radar was removed by the censors.

“A second class radioman by the name of [Adam] Miller was the most experienced and the best qualified operator of this radar. He sat on a stool facing the console. He was superb in his ability to look at the A scope of that radar and interpret all those strange flickers of light. He could distinguish carriers from battleships and cruisers from destroyers. He was a real pro at radar navigation. He was the eyes of the ship in many dark and dangerous situations.”

-LT Ben Blee
Combat Intelligence Officer and Assistant CIC Officer


Lowell Price Tabor seated at the air search radar after June 1945.



“We had no idea what radar really was. I had visualized it when I first heard about it as sort of like a modern television screen. The first thing my boss told me in London, ‘what do you know about radar?’ I said, ‘nothing.’ The British called it RDF for disguise purposes. The school at Portsmouth was for fleet officers who would be exposed to search radars, fire control radars. And they started right from the push-pull vacuum tubes right up on through the circuit. You weren’t supposed to become an expert repairman or technician but it was just enough background so that you not only later learned what radar could do but had some idea of how and why.”

-Rear Admiral Thomas Howard Morton
(CDR Morton, gunnery officer on BB55)

I hope it helps a bit?

[oscssw]

May 2, 2022 14:44:03 GMT lordroel said:

May 2, 2022 14:39:35 GMT stevep said:

  I'm not accepting the role of Lordroel's 2nd but may I suggest he considers as the weapons for the pair of you French bread rolls.   Say not longer than 1m each. That should enable satisfaction in an orgy of violence without either of you facing serious consequences from the authorities anywhere.

As Senior Chief (oscssw ) can handle more alcohol than me i think, a duel with us drinking each 6 glasses of Ouzo, i can guarantee the Chief will have me beaten on my third glass.

Whoa there my friend.  A fair Duel, under the Irish Rules, is one thing.

However 6 glasses of Ouzo sounds more like a mutual SUICIDE pact. 

And I'd be dead by the fourth glass.  As the challenged party, I don't question your right to pick the weapon.   How about taking Steve up on the French bread rolls idea?   If you are still out to do some serious damage how about four day old, yard long, baguettes? The combo of it's very hard crust and being stale surely will make it a formidable cudgel?

Got to give ourselves a chance to survive.  

[lordroel]

May 2, 2022 18:07:27 GMT oscssw said:

May 2, 2022 14:44:03 GMT lordroel said:

As Senior Chief (oscssw ) can handle more alcohol than me i think, a duel with us drinking each 6 glasses of Ouzo, i can guarantee the Chief will have me beaten on my third glass.

Whoa there my friend.  A fair Duel, under the Irish Rules, is one thing.

However 6 glasses of Ouzo sounds more like a mutual SUICIDE pact. 

And I'd be dead by the fourth glass.  As the challenged party, I don't question your right to pick the weapon.   How about taking Steve up on the French bread rolls idea?   If you are still out to do some serious damage how about four day old, yard long, baguettes? The combo of it's very hard crust and being stale surely will make it a formidable cudgel?

Got to give ourselves a chance to survive.  

Well as we keep on derailing this thread, we picked out our weapons, now the location, think we need to meet halfway as i am not allowed to travel to the United States with a four day old, yard long, baguettes, i think the TSA might flag that as a weapon.

[oscssw]

May 2, 2022 18:07:27 GMT oscssw said:

May 2, 2022 14:44:03 GMT lordroel said:

As Senior Chief (oscssw ) can handle more alcohol than me i think, a duel with us drinking each 6 glasses of Ouzo, i can guarantee the Chief will have me beaten on my third glass.

Whoa there my friend.  A fair Duel, under the Irish Rules, is one thing.

However 6 glasses of Ouzo sounds more like a mutual SUICIDE pact. 

And I'd be dead by the fourth glass.  As the challenged party, I don't question your right to pick the weapon.   How about taking Steve up on the French bread rolls idea?   If you are still out to do some serious damage how about four day old, yard long, baguettes? The combo of it's very hard crust and being stale surely will make it a formidable cudgel?

Got to give ourselves a chance to survive.  

-4 miletus12, thank you very much.  This will be of great help.  Even the pictures of the early CIC is of considerable interest to this old "Scope Dope."

[oscssw]

May 2, 2022 15:36:35 GMT miletus12 said:

May 2, 2022 14:40:49 GMT oscssw said:

Thanks for the Steer -4 miletus12.  I think I can use some of those folks in this ATL, especially

-Commander Kemp Tolley, Navigator

-Commander Joe Stryker, Executive Officer

Harold Smith, Firecontrolman 1/c.  That enlisted FT will come in handy as a foil for the sailors who worked with radar.

I also need to find a Radar experienced EM(Electrician’s Mate) or RM (Radio Man)CPO.

Ask and you shall receive.

The Combat Information Center crew, 1945. Jerry Johnson and Everette Beaver are in the photo.

A group of us whose last name began with B were all assigned to the radar gang for some deep secret that only the military would know why. That was in November of 1942. Even the word radar was classified at the time. You could not reveal it stood for radio detection and ranging. We had an old set of bedsprings [CXAM] up on our foremost. The little air search radar was just a small cathode ray tube and it had no calibrations on it whatsoever. We had a little piece of scotch tape across the front of it and marked in ink were increments of 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 and 60.

By practice and error we had no way of determining altitude…or how many there might be in a group. We could just pick up some signals coming in. That was the early radar. We were one of the few ships in the formation that was equipped with radar.

They called the new radar gang CT Division, communications technician. They didn’t know what else to do with it. Even the radar rate was the same as the radio rate except it had an arrow through it. It grew. It became more sophisticated.

You are trained to detect something that wasn’t normal. Of course, trying to determine what is clouds because the radar would pick up cloud formation and you would get a signal back. It had no speed and no direction. Prematurely we went to air defense many times at night when someone called that they had contact and didn’t.”

-Everette Beaver, Radarman 2/c
Attended Radar Operators School in October 1943

Jerry Johnson describes radar aboard the Battleship North Carolina.

“Radars are devices which the Allies use to detect the approach of enemy aircraft and ships, and to determine the distance (range) to the enemies’ forces. It is one of the marvels made possible by the electron tube. Radars operate through fog, storms, and darkness, as well as through cloudless skies. They are, therefore, superior to both telescopes and acoustic listening devices.”

The First Public Account of Radar in Bureau of Naval Personnel Information Bulletin, June 1943


Lowell Price Tabor seated at the air search radar after June 1945.

“When we first went into commission [April 1941], the thought of radar was just fantastic. When you consider your antiaircraft, you are completely flatfooted until some joker drops out of the clouds. You have a different problem than if you have advanced warning as to their approach.”

-LCDR John Kirkpatrick
Assistant Gunnery Officer and Air Defense Officer


Photograph of the Battleship’s guns firing during the Shakedown cruise. The CXAM radar was removed by the censors.

“A second class radioman by the name of [Adam] Miller was the most experienced and the best qualified operator of this radar. He sat on a stool facing the console. He was superb in his ability to look at the A scope of that radar and interpret all those strange flickers of light. He could distinguish carriers from battleships and cruisers from destroyers. He was a real pro at radar navigation. He was the eyes of the ship in many dark and dangerous situations.”

-LT Ben Blee
Combat Intelligence Officer and Assistant CIC Officer


Lowell Price Tabor seated at the air search radar after June 1945.



“We had no idea what radar really was. I had visualized it when I first heard about it as sort of like a modern television screen. The first thing my boss told me in London, ‘what do you know about radar?’ I said, ‘nothing.’ The British called it RDF for disguise purposes. The school at Portsmouth was for fleet officers who would be exposed to search radars, fire control radars. And they started right from the push-pull vacuum tubes right up on through the circuit. You weren’t supposed to become an expert repairman or technician but it was just enough background so that you not only later learned what radar could do but had some idea of how and why.”

-Rear Admiral Thomas Howard Morton
(CDR Morton, gunnery officer on BB55)

I hope it helps a bit?

-4 miletus12, thank you very much. This will be of great help. Even the pictures of the early CIC is of considerable interest to this old "Scope Dope."

The admiral is talking about "Ducting" and as a PacFleet sailor I was very familiar with it. One time coming back from a West Pac deployment we picked up the San Gabriel Mountains, part of the "Transverse Range", at 184 miles with our SPS-10 surface search radar. That has to be some kind of a record. We ID'ed Mount San Antonio (AKA Mt. Baldy) and Mount Wilson.
We got a "fair" two point navigation fix and were only 7 miles out from our navigator's position. Our chief had some serious bragging rights in the Goat Locker for awhile which translated to my watch section getting some "Special Libs".

On the other hand, those same Refraction conditions played havoc, a real double edged sword, when we were Alpha Whiskey (AKA Piraz) in the Tonkin Gulf during the late '60s and early '70s.

WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE? WARNING Real radar geek stuff follows. Don't say I didn't warn you.

Changes in temperature, moisture, and pressure in the atmospheric column cause a change in atmospheric density, which in turn causes variations in the speed of EM waves in both the vertical and horizontal. These changes in speed lead to changes in the propagation direction, or bending, of the waves. The bending of EM waves as they pass through the atmosphere is an example of refraction. Refraction is always such that the waves turn toward the medium in which they travel more slowly, as they pass from a faster speed medium into a slower speed medium.

One type of refractive condition can extend the normal detection range of radar and, if conditions intensify, produce false echoes or ghosting. Ghosting can cause returning echoes to fool the radar equipment into displaying faraway echoes as though they are much closer than they actually are. In the USN that can be embarrassing for an OS but usually you get off with a medium A$$ chewing for not recognizing it soon enough.

With another type of refractive condition, AP (AkA Anomalous Propagation) may produce a shadow zone (commonly referred to as a radar hole), sometimes allowing an aircraft or ship to approach within visual range but to remain undetected by radar. This is a very, very bad thing at night or in reduced visibility, especially fog which coincides because they both are functions of the same conditions. Believe me, having a "Contact" just pop up close aboard with no warning from CIC scares the hell out of most OODs and he will do everything he can to pin it on the radar gang. Because the XO will be chewing him a new anus, after doing the same to his Department head and that Dept. Head is just itching for his turn at the OOD. It matters little that the radar equipment is operating properly and the scope watch is doing his job diligently. Scape goats must be found and in the USN shit rolls down hill and will land on the radar gang watch team. Been there and done that. Never, ever fun.

Another naturally occurring AP feature is known as a Ducting. Simply put, a duct is a region of the atmosphere that traps EM waves (prevents them from spreading out), and thus allows them and their energy to propagate over long ranges. Ducts provide significant opportunities to exploit the atmosphere. The challenge in exploiting a duct is to:
1. know it is there, and
2. Put a sensor in it!
A duct is a transitory feature, and will only trap certain frequencies. The wider the duct, the higher (and, typically, the more useful) the frequency that can be trapped and exploited. The exploitation of ducts is a common tactic, and a very important part of the overall exploitation of the atmosphere.
OK enough said.

[oscssw]

May 2, 2022 18:13:24 GMT lordroel said:

May 2, 2022 18:07:27 GMT oscssw said:

Whoa there my friend.  A fair Duel, under the Irish Rules, is one thing.

However 6 glasses of Ouzo sounds more like a mutual SUICIDE pact. 

And I'd be dead by the fourth glass.  As the challenged party, I don't question your right to pick the weapon.   How about taking Steve up on the French bread rolls idea?   If you are still out to do some serious damage how about four day old, yard long, baguettes? The combo of it's very hard crust and being stale surely will make it a formidable cudgel?

Got to give ourselves a chance to survive.  

Well as we keep on derailing this thread, we picked out our weapons, now the location, think we need to meet halfway as i am not allowed to travel to the United States with a four day old, yard long, baguettes, i think the TSA might flag that as a weapon.

OK I get your gentle nudge to get on with THE SHOWBOAT engages THE IRON CHANCELLOR.

It is still a work in progress, far from finished  and I reserve the right to continue to tweek it.

                                  THE SHOWBOAT engages THE IRON CHANCELLOR


5 Feb ‘37 BB-55 Keel laid. New York Naval Shipyard (NYNSY)
5 Sept ‘39 USN entered World War II. CNO, Admiral Harold R. Stark, initiated Neutrality Patrol operations in the Caribbean & within 200 miles off the coasts of North & South America.
1 Oct Feb ‘39 BB-55 Launched (NYNSY)
5 APR 1940 FDR and the CNO instructed the Atlantic Fleet to initiate other "short-of-war" operations, and this led to the strategy of battleship sweeps deep into the Atlantic to deter Axis surface raiders and U-boats from entering the Neutrality Zone.
5 Nov ‘40 BB-55 Commissioned (NYNSY)
25 Nov ‘40 BB-55 installation of Mark 3 radar sets for the main battery, Mark 4 radars for the secondary guns,a CXAM-1 search radar, at (NYNSY)
1 Dec 1940 BB-55 departs Boston Naval Shipyard forh er shakedown cruise in the Caribbean
17 Dec 1940 CNO Stark appointed Rear Admiral Ernest King Commander-in-Chief of the Atlantic Fleet.
Thereby making him direct responsibility for the conduct of the Nuetrality Patrol Force.

25 Feb 1941 Admiral King meets with Prospective CO BB-55 in Washington to explain his concept of "short-of-war" operations, especially his whole hearted support and HIS very loose ROE’s of battleship sweeps deep into the Atlantic to deter Axis surface raiders and U-boats from entering the Neutrality Zone. It was not a shoot on sight authorization but King did make it clear the USN would defend itself and nuetral merchies vigorously if fired upon by the Kriegsmarine within the zone.
28 Feb 1941 BB-55 Completes shakedown cruise, is homeported in Boston and Chops to the Neutrality Patrol.
1 Mar 1941 BB-55 Captain Willis Augustus "Ching" Lee, Jr, assumes command. Lee's specialty in life was gunnery. At the age of 19 in 1907 "he became the only American to win both the US National High Power Rifle and Pistol championships in the same year." In 1914 during the Vera Cruz campaign in Mexico he drew the fire of three enemy snipers, thereby exposing their positions and then shot them at long range. He understood the powerful guns of a battleship as an extension of the law of ballistics and adapted his expertise to the new age of technology. Yup, I'm stacking the deck.
2 Mar 1941 BB-55 began rigorous training in gunnery in Chesapeak Bay and the use of her new search and fire control radars on the Dahlgren Virginia test ranges.
15 Mar 1941 At the request of CO BB-55, a “Radar” technical evaluation team from Naval Research Laboratory and the Radiation Laboratory at MIT come aboard to observe BB-55 radar directed gunnery and search radar operations. The team consisted of Engineers and scientists on the cutting edge of radar development. As well as observing the team instructs crew on optimal operation of the units, known deficiencies and quick fixes to the gear, advanced trouble shooting techniques and preventuve maintenace procesudres. CO BB-55 requests, through chain of command, NRL be directed to assign experienced radar engineering officer to BB-55. Lee doubts he will get one any time soon. There are just too few Radar savvy Officers in the fleet, so he decides to become that expert and adds a crash course on radar to his other duties.

27 March 1941 “ABC-1” Joint Staff agreement signed. ABC-1” defined what roles US and UK forces would play while the United States was still neutral. The USN was to ensure the defense of the Wester Hemispher. The sea lines of communication linking the British to the Western Hemisphere were vital, Per CNO Stark’s “Plan Dog” memo of 12 Nov ‘40 approved by FDR.
ABC-1 also formally authorized and encouraged the long established,tactical and technical information sharing between OpNav and the Admiralty. It also authorized cross posting of USN and RN Officers to share latest operational practices and TIMELY intel sharing.

9 APR 1941 BB-55 returns to Boston Naval Shipyard for latest upgrades and recalibration to her fire control and search radars.

25 APRIL 1941 Convoy HX 123 departs Halifax Nova Scotia with 43 merchants
1. Old BB HMS Ramillies
4 Town class Ex USN WW I DDs
including the future famous HMSCampbeltown, ExUSN DD 131, of the St Nazaire Raid
3 Modified WW I W class DDs
7 Flower class Corvets
3 old ASW sloops
1 Armed Merchant Cruiser.

26 April 1941  TG 39.1 underway from Boston to conduct battleship sweep Under Rear Admiral Henry Kent Hewitt
USS North Carolina BB-55 flag
​ USS Tuscaloosa – CA-37 (No radar)
USS Kearny DD-432 Gleaves-class
USS Dunlap DD-384 Mahan class CO   Lt.Cdr. Carl Hilton Bushnell, USN
USS Benson DD-421 Benson class

29 APRIL 1941 Convoy HX 123 950 miles south East of Halifax.
BB HMS Ramillies, has a catastrophic casualty to a high pressure turbine. The internal explosion fractures the casing sending shrapnel through the engine room that cuts down the Chief ERA and many of the engineers. Much of the piping requires patching and replacement. Serious damage is done the engine room’s other high pressure turbine. On inspection, it is determined the 2nd turbine requires shipyard repair. With her speed substantially reduced Ramillies is ordered back to Halifax with a W class DD and ASW sloop as escort.

19 MAY 1941 Bismarck, the heavy cruiser Prinz Eugen, two DDs and two mine sweepers sailed from Kiel Bay. Both capital ships were equipped with FUMO23 &27 Seetakt; both had special radar rooms as a part of the original design. Their assignment was commerce raiding under the command of Admiral Lütjens. More was expected of them than of previous surface actions, for with their armor, speed and radar they would be difficult to stop, an opinion shared in Berlin and London.
20 MAY 1941 One DD and three mine sweepers joined the squadron as it proceeded through the Kattegat. ME-109s provide CAP for the early stages of the break out.
21 May 1941 aircraft of the British Coastal Command identified the German BB and Heavy Cruiser proceeding north in Norwegian waters. RN cruisers Norfolk andSuffolk ordered by the Admiralty to take up positions in the Denmark Strait, between Iceland and Greenland.
22 MAY 1941 0800 Admiral Lutgens, aware he had been found, continues on his course and detaches the three DDs upon entering the Bransfield Strait.
23 MAY 1941 about noon Bismarck, whose two 80 cm sets were not restricted in duration of operation, had located the Suffolk both with radar and underwater sound. Lutgens continued on course southwestward through the Denmark Strait at 25 kts. The Denmark Strait, at the time was about two-thirds blocked by ice and with most of the remainder the recent depository of 6100 mines. Retreating ice had left a safe passage that FUMO Seekeat easily traced, allowing them to avoid the floating bergs as well as the pack ice even in the deep fog that kept British non-radar air patrols from sighting them.
23 MAY 1941 1920 Suffolk and the Bismarck sighted one another visually as the latter broke briefly from a fog bank. The Suffolks’s type 284 transmitter tubes were pushed to the limit to gain the needed power at such short wavelength; this normally allowed operation for only a couple of hours at a time, not too restrictive for gun-laying but hardly suitable for searching. The vertical lobe structure of the 7.5 m set precluded using it for surface search except at very close range. It was the intermittent use required to conserve the 284 that caused the British sighting to be visual. Suffolk scurried for fog before 15 inch shells could be sent her way, got off a sighting report and began tracking the big ship with the 50 cm type 284. The 284 was primarily a Mian Battery Fire Control Radar. She waited at her station at the exit of the mine field.
Because of iced insulators on the radio antenna the Suffolk’s first sighting report was received only by the Norfolk and the Prinz Eugen, where it was promptly decoded.
Norfolk’s first glimpse of Bismarck was almost her last as she narrowly escaped a salvo of heavy shells. The shock of gunfire had the effect of knocking out the forward Seetakt to Lütjens’s great displeasure, so Prinz Eugen had to lead, as both her radars still functioned. The Suffolk managed to keep her quarry in optical or radar sight and hold the Norfolk close with radio. Norfolk patrolled 50 miles to the west, had only the 1.5 m fixed-antenna type 286M, the one that required swinging ship for direction.
The Admiralty soon learned of the chase and dispatched the new battleship Prince of Wales and the flagship Hood to intercept. They met the enemy early in the morning of the 24th, despite the Suffolk having lost contact a few hours before. Vice Admiral L E Holland, commanding the squadron, ordered complete radio silence for his ships, including radar, until the German ships were sighted, his fear being that with their greater speed the Germans could escape if alerted.
24 MAY 1941 0415 Prince Eugen signals the Admiral Lutgens that smoke is sighted to port. Rememeber where they are. In May the days are very, very long in the Denmark Straight.
24 MAY 1941 0535 RN BB Prince of Wales, CC (battle cruiser) Hood, DDs Achates, Antelope, Anthony, Echo, Electra, and Icarus closed to engage the Bismarck. The BB and CC and open fire at 25,000 yards.
24 MAY 1941 0552 when the Bismarck was within 25,000 yards, the Hood opened fire with the aid of her type 284 Fire Control radar, quickly followed by the Prince of Wales. Three shells from the third salvo of the Hood, which had been first to fire, hit the Nazi BB. Hood’s third salvoe strattles Bismarck with shell splinters wounding 6 and killing 1 AA Gunner. Admiral Lutgens is hit in the butt by a spent splinter. No real damage is inflicted on the Bismarck or the admiral.
24 MAY 1941 0554 The Germans opened fire on the Hood with great accuracy provided by the foretop director with the forward 10.5-meter rangefinder and the after FuMO 23 radar antenna. Busmarck’s optical fire control was up to the same high standards as at Jutland and more than compensated the casualty to her forward radar. The second and third salvos straddled and hit the battle cruiser. Fire broke out in her port battery but excellent DC by her crew contain and begin to suppress the fire.
24 MAY 1041 0557 POW begins turn to port and is taken under fire by Prince Eugene 8 inch guns under Director control of her 7-meter rangefinder mounted at the top of the enlarged rangefinder towers, one aft and one on the foretop. The FuMO 27 radar sets with 6 x 12 ft. mattresses antennas was mounted on the directors.
24 MAY 1941 0600 Hood is straddled and hit again. One 15 inch shell impacts the top armor of B turret. Splinters start fires that burns out the gunhouse but does not spread to the handling rooms and magazines. A second 15 in AP shell penetrates her deck armor, wipes out one of her engine rooms & auxilary power rooms, causes moderate flooding and drastically reduces hood’s speed. A third shell destroys the forward main battery director. Hood continues to fire back at Bismark but after a number of near misses Bismarck lands two 15 inch shells abreast and just forward of A turret just below the water line. Hood’s bow is moderately damaged, A turret is jammed and intense flooding further slow the ship to 10 kts.
24 MAY 1941 0635 Captain Kerr informed Vice-Admiral Lancelot Holland in Hood of the ship’s damage. Vice-Admiral Lancelot Holland signalled Captain Leachof Prince Of Wales to screen Hood as she withdraws to effect repairs.
24 MAY 1941 0640 Bismarck, seeing damage to Hood, especially no way she can escape, shifts targets to Prince of Wales. The Germans opened intense and accurate fire on Prince of Wales, with 15-inch, 8-inch and 5.9-inch guns. POW is straddled and hit by the third salvoe destroying her main battery director & Type 284 Radar for main fire control. Bismarck’s fifth salvoe causes heavy hit just above the waterline as Prince of Wales manoeuvred to shield Hood.
24 MAY 1941 0650 a 15-inch shell struck the starboard side of the compass platform and killed the majority of the personnel there. The navigating officer was wounded, Captain Leach suffered debilitating head wound caused by the fragments from the shell's ballistic cap and the material it dislodged in its diagonal path through the compass platform, XO takes command.
24 MAY 1941 0655 15-inch diving shell penetrated the ship's side below the armour belt amidships, exploded in the wing compartments on the starboard side of the after boiler rooms reducing POW max speed to 18 kts.
24 MAY 1941 0705 Vice-Admiral Lancelot Holland in Hood orders DD’s to form up for a daylight torpedoe attack to cover the withdrawal of Hood. POW will continue to enage Bismarck to support Dds. Crusiers will make a flank speed run to Germans unengaged side and commence fire when in range to support the DD attack. Holland hoped to split the Geramn’s fire giving the DDs a small chance of scoring a hit on the Bismarck before they are all sunk.
24 MAY 1941 0715 DDs commence their run, POW continues to engage Bismarck as does the cruisers. Bismarck and Prince Eugene sink or seriously damage Achates, Echo and Icarus before they reach maximum torpedoe range. Antelope, Anthony, Echo, Electra are forced to launch their Mark V torpedoes at maximum range 13,000 yds /slower speed 20 KTS setting. Results no hits. Anthony and Echo are sunk on the way out and Antelope is damaged. Only Electra comes out of the suicide charge intact.
24 MAY 1941 0722 Lookouts on both Bismarck and prince Eugene spot torpedoes launched by Norfolk and sufffolk. Again the Mark Vs were launched at long range 13,000 yds slow speed 20 kts setting because it is a daylight attck. Admiral Lutgens orders his ships to max speed and turn away from the new torpedoe attack. At the same time Prince Eugene scores a hit on the Suffolk’s B turret and splinters destroys her radar.
24 MAY 1941 0726 HMS Suffolk bows are blown off from a forward magazine explosion. Good damage control and superb seamanship keeps the ship afloat until tugs can reach her.
24 MAY 1941 0730 Admiral Lutgens, thinking he has sunk Hood, badly damaged POW, sunk Suffolk and 4 destroyers orders his ships to clear the straight at high speed and head South West into the convoy lanes to prosecute his commerce raiding mission. Lutgens also is wary that more RN capital ships and carriers are closing on the position of the battle. Well satisfied with his ships, crews and having suffered almost no damage, he deems it time to continue their commerce raiding mission.
24 MAY 1941 0800 Vice-Admiral Lancelot Holland shifts his flag to POW.
He orders Norfolk, despite the fact she that only the 1.5 m fixed-antenna type 286M, the one that required swinging ship for direction, to shadow Bismarck and Prince Eugene.
He orders, Hood, POW, Suffolk, Antelope and Electra to make best speed 5 kts while POW is towing Suffolk stern first back to the UK.
24 MAY 1941 0830 Vice-Admiral Lancelot Holland signals the Admiralty the results of the battle of the Denmark Straight and his urgent need for tugs and escorts if he is to salvage Hood and POW.
Note to Joe. What is BB-55 doing leading up and during this battle?

[miletus12]

May 2, 2022 19:32:56 GMT oscssw said:

May 2, 2022 15:36:35 GMT miletus12 said:

Ask and you shall receive.

I hope it helps a bit?

-4 miletus12, thank you very much. This will be of great help. Even the pictures of the early CIC is of considerable interest to this old "Scope Dope."

The admiral is talking about "Ducting" and as a PacFleet sailor I was very familiar with it. One time coming back from a West Pac deployment we picked up the San Gabriel Mountains, part of the "Transverse Range", at 184 miles with our SPS-10 surface search radar. That has to be some kind of a record. We ID'ed Mount San Antonio (AKA Mt. Baldy) and Mount Wilson.
We got a "fair" two point navigation fix and were only 7 miles out from our navigator's position. Our chief had some serious bragging rights in the Goat Locker for awhile which translated to my watch section getting some "Special Libs".

On the other hand, those same Refraction conditions played havoc, a real double edged sword, when we were Alpha Whiskey (AKA Piraz) in the Tonkin Gulf during the late '60s and early '70s.

WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE? WARNING Real radar geek stuff follows. Don't say I didn't warn you.

(You are going to "enjoy" this one...  M.)

Changes in temperature, moisture, and pressure in the atmospheric column cause a change in atmospheric density, which in turn causes variations in the speed of EM waves in both the vertical and horizontal. These changes in speed lead to changes in the propagation direction, or bending, of the waves. The bending of EM waves as they pass through the atmosphere is an example of refraction. Refraction is always such that the waves turn toward the medium in which they travel more slowly, as they pass from a faster speed medium into a slower speed medium.

One type of refractive condition can extend the normal detection range of radar and, if conditions intensify, produce false echoes or ghosting. Ghosting can cause returning echoes to fool the radar equipment into displaying faraway echoes as though they are much closer than they actually are. In the USN that can be embarrassing for an OS but usually you get off with a medium A$$ chewing for not recognizing it soon enough.

With another type of refractive condition, AP (AkA Anomalous Propagation) may produce a shadow zone (commonly referred to as a radar hole), sometimes allowing an aircraft or ship to approach within visual range but to remain undetected by radar. This is a very, very bad thing at night or in reduced visibility, especially fog which coincides because they both are functions of the same conditions. Believe me, having a "Contact" just pop up close aboard with no warning from CIC scares the hell out of most OODs and he will do everything he can to pin it on the radar gang. Because the XO will be chewing him a new anus, after doing the same to his Department head and that Dept. Head is just itching for his turn at the OOD. It matters little that the radar equipment is operating properly and the scope watch is doing his job diligently. Scape goats must be found and in the USN shit rolls down hill and will land on the radar gang watch team. Been there and done that. Never, ever fun.

Another naturally occurring AP feature is known as a Ducting. Simply put, a duct is a region of the atmosphere that traps EM waves (prevents them from spreading out), and thus allows them and their energy to propagate over long ranges. Ducts provide significant opportunities to exploit the atmosphere. The challenge in exploiting a duct is to:
1. know it is there, and
2. Put a sensor in it!
A duct is a transitory feature, and will only trap certain frequencies. The wider the duct, the higher (and, typically, the more useful) the frequency that can be trapped and exploited. The exploitation of ducts is a common tactic, and a very important part of the overall exploitation of the atmosphere.
OK enough said.

Radio waves are part of the light spectrum. It is not exactly the same result as sound waves (kinetic energy) passage through water and the effects of warm or cold layers in that liquid medium, but the general change is that a medium's density (resistance) to information travel across an interval causes a divergence into the travel path of any wave phenomenon into the direction that induces a lengthening in signal propagation distance traveled as measured velocity over time. That "refraction" is true for light, for gravity, for strong and weak nuclear forces and for electromagnetism and kinetics. This phenomenon is seen in how shells pass through armor or how the moon orbits the earth. So, I kind of understand it that way, oscssw . For an example of this generalized principle, false range gating or "anomalous propagation" take a look at the images below...


The apparent "decrease in velocity" is that distance over time again.  Since the "ray path" is actually a curve, one gets a range error and a smear of the information across the field of view. As another oddity, if you are a pilot, you understand this phenomenon as another way as wind distance travel over wing produces lift. (Again see image.) There is a BEND MOMENT in this physical effect so observed that acts as a kind of false side shove force to the direction of information travel over time. 


  
 Your radar hole can be likened as to electromagnetic resistance is likened to the gravitational wave lensing produced by light passing around or through a large unseen mass. That is what is called unseen but detected "dark matter" by the weigh (pun and spelling intended).  
 
The whacky out of position "poi-sition" of stars detected behind the sun in 1919 during a solar eclipse (I think that was the date.) that proves this "light stuff" works the way Einstein says it does and not as Newton imagined it, is what first clued people into what to expect as refraction and false signal returns when sonar and radar became a thing. 

Physics can be fun... NOT! Anyway, radar beams can be bounced back and forth in a hall of mirrors effect due to electrical resistance, so can sound waves due to kinetic resistance, gravity waves due to Higgs resistance, and armor piercing shells passing through armor scheme protection package density voids. And you can get "lift" from these crazy effects across ALL media and propagations. 

Can we get back to sinking the German engineering disaster that was the Iron Chancellor?  My head hurts.   

M.