Why did the Sultanate of Sulu give up its domains over Palawan and Basilan to Spain?

[justiniano]

I have no Idea so I'm asking here

[miletus12]

Aug 17, 2022 23:33:34 GMT justiniano said:

I have no Idea so I'm asking here

It is claimed that the average conquistador was so strong he could lift the front end of a horse.

He had to be strong to hold steady a matchlock musket. And there was that fanaticism thing.

[justiniano]

Can you give me a serious answer and not a sarcastic one?

[lordroel]

Aug 18, 2022 6:39:18 GMT miletus12 said:

Aug 17, 2022 23:33:34 GMT justiniano said:

I have no Idea so I'm asking here

It is claimed that the average conquistador was so strong he could lift the front end of a horse.

He had to be strong to hold steady a matchlock musket. And there was that fanaticism thing.

Can we discuses questions without this.

[miletus12]

Aug 19, 2022 15:30:22 GMT lordroel said:

Aug 18, 2022 6:39:18 GMT miletus12 said:

It is claimed that the average conquistador was so strong he could lift the front end of a horse.

He had to be strong to hold steady a matchlock musket. And there was that fanaticism thing.

Can we discuses questions without this.

Technological superiority, religious zealotry, and physical and martial prowess as well as a European conquest ethic in the cultural clash of the era was not intended to be sarcastic. It is about the first thing I learned in history in the fifth grade about the "Age of Exploration".

[lordroel]

Aug 21, 2022 22:01:23 GMT miletus12 said:

Aug 19, 2022 15:30:22 GMT lordroel said:

Can we discuses questions without this.

Technological superiority, religious zealotry, and physical and martial prowess as well as a European conquest ethic in the cultural clash of the era was not intended to be sarcastic. It is about the first thing I learned in history in the fifth grade about the "Age of Exploration".

But the question was Why did the Sultanate of Sulu give up its domains over Palawan and Basilan to Spain?.

[miletus12]

Aug 22, 2022 5:48:53 GMT lordroel said:

Aug 21, 2022 22:01:23 GMT miletus12 said:

Technological superiority, religious zealotry, and physical and martial prowess as well as a European conquest ethic in the cultural clash of the era was not intended to be sarcastic. It is about the first thing I learned in history in the fifth grade about the "Age of Exploration".

But the question was Why did the Sultanate of Sulu give up its domains over Palawan and Basilan to Spain?.

Just like in the Caribbean and Mediterranean of the same time periods, the local peoples carried on piracy and a slave trade. The Europeans either paid nuisance tribute or went after the pirate havens and wiped them out.  The Spanish and British actually on this rare occasion cooperated to squash the Iranun and Joros. I think it is kind of funny that the Sulu Sultanate finally got the works a la the Barbary Pirate Wars, when the Americans showed up. The Spanish were kind of civilized about it. The Americans were not. 

[justiniano]

miletus12, R u from S.E. Asia?

[miletus12]

Aug 22, 2022 15:52:44 GMT justiniano said:

miletus12 , R u from S.E. Asia?

I would describe me as a "mixed American".

=====================================================

In reference to how the Americans handled the Sulu Sultanate... they made a treaty: 

The Bates Treaty of 1899

Conditional Agreement Between Brig.-General

John C. Bates, Representing the United States,

and the Sultan of Jolo

August 20, 1899

______________________________





Between Brigadier-General John C. Bates, representing the United States, of the one part; and his Highness, the Sultan of Jolo, the Dato Rajah Muda, the Dato Attik, The Dato Calbi, and the Dato Joakanain, of the other part: it being understood that this agreement will be in full force only when approved by the Governor-General of the Philippine Islands and confirmed by the President of the United States, and will be subject to future modifications by the mutual consent of the parties in interest.

Article I.

The sovereignty of the United States over the whole Archipelago of Jolo, and its dependencies, is declared and acknowledged.

Article II.

The United States flag will be used in the Archipelago of Jolo, and its dependencies, on land and sea.

Article III.

The rights and dignities of His Highness the Sultan, and his Datos, shall be fully respected; the Moros are not to be interfered with on account of their religion; all religious customs are to be respected, and no one is to be persecuted on account of his religion.

Article IV.

While the United States government may occupy and control such points in the Archipelago of Jolo as the public interests demand, encroachment will not be made upon the lands immediately about the residence of His Highness the Sultan, unless military necessity requires such occupation in case of war with a foreign power; and, where the property of individuals is taken, due compensation will be made in each case.

Any person can purchase land in the Archipelago of Jolo and hold the same by obtaining the consent of the Sultan and coming to satisfactory agreement with the owner of the land, and such purchase shall immediately be registered in the proper office of the United States Government.


Article V.

All trade in domestic products of the Arrchipelago of Jolo, when carried on by the Sultan and his people with any part of the Philippine Islands, and when conducted under the American flag, shall be free, unlimited, and undutiable.

Article VI.

The Sultan of Jolo shall be allowed to communicate direct with the Governor-General of the Philippine Islands in making complaint against the Commanding Officer of Jolo or against any Naval Commander.

Article VII.

The introduction of firearms and war material is forbidden, except under specific authority of the Governor-General of the Philippine Islands.

Article VIII.

Piracy must be suppressed and the Sultan and his Datos agree to heartily cooperate with the United States authorities to that end, and to make every possible effort to arrest and bring to justice all persons engaged in piracy.

Article IX.

Where crimes and offenses are committed by Moros against Moros, the government of the Sultan will bring to trial and punishment the criminals and offenders, who will be delivered to the government of the Sultan by the United States authorities if in their possession. In all other cases persons charged with crimes or offenses will be delivered to the United States authorities for trial and punishment.

Article X.

Any slave in the Archipelago of Jolo shall have the right to purchase freedom by paying to the master the usual market value.

Article XI.

In case of any trouble with subjects of the Sultan, the American authorities in the islands will be instructed to make careful investigation before resorting to harsh measures, as in most cases serious trouble can thus be avoided.

Article XII.

At present, American or foreigners wishing to go into the country should state their wishes to the Moro authorities and ask for an escort, but it is hoped that this will become unnecessary as we know each other better.

Article XIII.

The United States will give full protection to the Sultan and his subjects in case any foreign nation should attempt to impose upon them.

Article XIV.

The United States will not sell the island of Jolo or any other island of the Jolo Archipelago to any foreign nation without the consent of the Sultan of Jolo.

Article XV.

The United States government will pay the following monthly salaries:



To the Sultan $250.00 (Mexican Dollars)

To Dato Rajah Muda $075.00

To Dato Attik $060.00

To Datu Calbi $075.00

To Dato Joakanian $060.00

To Dato Amin Hussin $060.00

To Dato Hadji Puyo $060.00

To Dato Hadji Butu $075.00

To Hadji Mura $010.00

To Serif Saguin $075.00

Signed in triplicate, in English and Sulu, at Jolo, this 20th day of August, A.D. 1899 (13 Arabmil Ahil 1317)



(Signed) John C. Bates

Brigadier-General, U.S. Volunteers



(Signed) Hadji Mohammed Jamalol Kiram II

Sultan of Jolo



(Signed) Datu Rajah Mudan

Datu Attik

Dato Calbi

Dato Joakanian

NOTE: The American official version indicates the word "Conditional Agreement" in the subtitle of the treaty. In the Tausug translation of the treaty, however, it simply states "Agreement", suggesting that the Sultan may have been misled in his understanding on the long-term objective of the treaty.

This is entirely in the custom of the USG when negotiating with a "tribal leader" or "chief". The "treaty" was to be honored only until the very local and temporary conditions that compelled the US Army to play for time, had changed and the "long-knives" gained the upper hand.