Ulster ISOT 1969-40

[melanie]

Uster - that is both the two thirds of the old province of Ulster that are in British Northern Ireland AND the portion of Ulster that is part of the Republic - are sent from the first beginning fights of the Troubles in 1969 to noon Belfast time on New Year's Day, 1940.

[stevep]

Sept 9, 2022 12:20:19 GMT melanie said:

Uster - that is both the two thirds of the old province of Ulster that are in British Northern Ireland AND the portion of Ulster that is part of the Republic - are sent from the first beginning fights of the Troubles in 1969 to noon Belfast time on New Year's Day, 1940.

  Well that is going to be interesting.  Its early enough that the allies should be in a position to really slaughter the German attack on Norway as well as avoid falling into a trap with the Ardennes thrust, albeit that those events might well be changed as the ISOT is too large to keep things totally quiet.  Also they can provide information on longer term economic, political and technological events so things would be changed more broadly.  The potential butterflies would be huge.

  The region, especially the more industrialized north wouldn't be enough to make a massive difference but there should be some assets as well as knowledge that would be useful while the technology gulf between 1940 and 1969 isn't too great that a good chunk of any technology in the 1969 region should be supportable in 1940.

  There is possibly going to be more tension between Britain and the republic as De Valera might possibly use the tension in the 1969 provinces as a tool to exert some pressure on Britain although given 1940 values and that its actually in a world war that is likely to have little impact.

  Overall things should go better for the western allies but a hell of a lot could change in many ways.  A France that isn't conquered in 1940 is likely to mean a shorter war but also one restricted to Britain, France and their allies and Germany with no invasion of the USSR and Italy probably keeping a low profile.  What happens in the Far East/Pacific especially with news of the attack on Pearl Harbour, Japanese war crimes, the US use of nukes etc and then the fall of China to communism will have a lot of impacts as well.  Then the knowledge of the Cold War and the prolonged period of mutual fear of nuclear destruction.  For the European powers also the question of the ending of their colonial empires and how that happens is going to have impacts as well.

[melanie]

In 1969, it's still the 1921-1972 Home Rule government and parliament in Belfast that is in operation, which could complicate things. Not to mention the loyalist and republican paramilitaries. Plus, as the portion of the historical Ulster that is part of the Republic has come along to 1940 as well, it's very much can and worms. stevep,

[stevep]

Sept 10, 2022 3:54:29 GMT melanie said:

In 1969, it's still the 1921-1972 Home Rule government and parliament in Belfast that is in operation, which could complicate things. Not to mention the loyalist and republican paramilitaries. Plus, as the portion of the historical Ulster that is part of the Republic has come along to 1940 as well, it's very much can and worms. stevep ,

  Very true but for most of the people affected seeking to make the best of their new time and also for the people in Ulster that their in the middle of a world war, which will see attacks on them and their shipping will be important as well. 

  The problem since their now in 1940 is that the HR government will get full support and there will be little attention in the bigger crisis for the desires of the catholic minority for less discrimination.  Although with the demand for manpower some of their economic problems could probably be eased significantly as Britain will want any worker it can get, especially since they may be more knowledgeable than their 1940 counter-pasts.  At the same time both N Ireland and the three Irish provinces are going to have to adjust to a lower standard of living and less technology than their used to, due both to the earlier date and the fact there's a war affected the economy in both nations.

  Thinking about it I wonder what Chamberlain's government will make of the existence of institutions such as the NHS in N Ireland, let alone the political news of the length and costs of the war followed by the Labour victory in the 1945 election.

[melanie]

Chamberlain's cancer being caught in January because of the ISOT might actually help him stevep,

[stevep]

Sept 10, 2022 17:41:07 GMT melanie said:

Chamberlain's cancer being caught in January because of the ISOT might actually help him stevep ,

  Good point.  At the very least the up-timers will inform him about it - which his doctors apparently didn't and if its curable since the Norway fiasco won't occur he might stay PM.  Although the bad press from the up-time could be a big issue while news that Churchill will be presented as a successful war-time PM will have some impacts on the Tory party.

  Its possible that the news of being caught napping at Pearl harbour might have an impact on Roosevelt's chances of re-election assuming he still decides to stand for a 3rd term but given his popularity at this stage and that he wins the war - albeit dying before the end should carry him through to victory.

  Not sure how much the up-time nuclear knowledge will help Britain or how eager 1940 Britain under Chamberlain will be to share this info with the US?  Of course if there's a RN ship in harbour at the time with tactical nukes that could be a big game-changer.  However even what's in some public libraries, let alone say university ones would be a huge step forward.

  Another factor that will come to mind would be that the up-timers know about the Cambridge 'circle' so hopefully they and some other spies are likely to get what they deserve.