What if France reclaimed Louisiana from Spain in July 1795 Treaty of Basel instead of the Treaty of

[raharris1973]

What if France reclaimed Louisiana from Spain in July 1795 Treaty of Basel instead of the Treaty of San Ildefonso of October 1800?

In OTL, France imposed the 1795 Treaty of Basel on Spain after winning the War of the Pyrenees against Spain and as part of it forced the Spanish to cede the eastern two-thirds of the island of Hispaniola, east of Haiti (then called Saint-Domingue), the hinterlands of Spain's old settlement of Santo Domingo and the city itself.

According to an article by Frederick Jackson Turner (page 19 of "The Policy of France toward the Mississippi Valley in the Period of Washington and Adams" at www.jstor.org/stable/1834721#metadata_info_tab_contents), the French at this time, also sought Louisiana, but the Spanish Minister Godoy refused.

What if Godoy had folded to French pressure, opting to cede Louisiana to France, instead of eastern Hispaniola (the Dominican Republic) or in addition to it, in 1795?

This would have resulted in a common Franco-US border on the Mississippi as early as 1795-96, during the second Washington Administration, and cut-off the progress of Pinckney's Treaty with Spain (aka, the Treaty of San Lorenzo), giving France leverage over the US in terms of granting or denying access to the mouth of the Mississippi.

It would have left the US and France with a common border by the time of the Quasi-War during the Adams administration, so it is hard to see how that could have avoided from escalating from an undeclared naval war, to a declared full-scale, land and sea war, with the US aiming to capture New Orleans and France aiming to hold New Orleans and subvert the American west and stir internal partisan controversy. That is if peace between France and the US even lasts as long as the XYZ affair. And if there is not a British expedition to capture New Orleans first. A British capture of New Orleans puts the United States in whole different pickle.

Your thoughts?

[stevep]

Sept 20, 2022 0:41:10 GMT raharris1973 said:

What if France reclaimed Louisiana from Spain in July 1795 Treaty of Basel instead of the Treaty of San Ildefonso of October 1800?

In OTL, France imposed the 1795 Treaty of Basel on Spain after winning the War of the Pyrenees against Spain and as part of it forced the Spanish to cede the eastern two-thirds of the island of Hispaniola, east of Haiti (then called Saint-Domingue), the hinterlands of Spain's old settlement of Santo Domingo and the city itself.

According to an article by Frederick Jackson Turner (page 19 of "The Policy of France toward the Mississippi Valley in the Period of Washington and Adams" at www.jstor.org/stable/1834721#metadata_info_tab_contents), the French at this time, also sought Louisiana, but the Spanish Minister Godoy refused.

What if Godoy had folded to French pressure, opting to cede Louisiana to France, instead of eastern Hispaniola (the Dominican Republic) or in addition to it, in 1795?

This would have resulted in a common Franco-US border on the Mississippi as early as 1795-96, during the second Washington Administration, and cut-off the progress of Pinckney's Treaty with Spain (aka, the Treaty of San Lorenzo), giving France leverage over the US in terms of granting or denying access to the mouth of the Mississippi.

It would have left the US and France with a common border by the time of the Quasi-War during the Adams administration, so it is hard to see how that could have avoided from escalating from an undeclared naval war, to a declared full-scale, land and sea war, with the US aiming to capture New Orleans and France aiming to hold New Orleans and subvert the American west and stir internal partisan controversy. That is if peace between France and the US even lasts as long as the XYZ affair. And if there is not a British expedition to capture New Orleans first. A British capture of New Orleans puts the United States in whole different pickle.

Your thoughts?

  I would agree that its likely to mean war with either the UK or the US or even both.  Although if the UK gets New Orleans 1st tension will be strong with the US.

  I don't think it would be instead of Saint-Domingue as the latter was probably seen as far more valuable - although French failed to hold it OTL - than a relatively unsettled wilderness in N America which would be difficult to defend given both the proximity of the US and the continued war with the UK among others.

  If they had got that territory however what would have happened with Spanish Florida?  Would it had continued to be in Spanish control or would France seek that as well?  Although unlike the rump Louisiana France had never owned that before so I suspect it would stay with Spain.