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Post by raharris1973 on Sept 25, 2022 16:26:19 GMT
What if Armenia, relatively fresh from its victory in the first Nagorno-Karabakh war in 1994, is in May 1995 ISOTed one hundred years into the past, into the middle of the time of the Hamidian massacres of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire next door?
What can Armenia do to sustain its population and technology level, stave off being crushed by Tsarist authorities for “rebellion”, and do to aid co-ethnics in the Ottoman Empire?
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Sept 26, 2022 19:02:31 GMT
What if Armenia, relatively fresh from its victory in the first Nagorno-Karabakh war in 1994, is in May 1995 ISOTed one hundred years into the past, into the middle of the time of the Hamidian massacres of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire next door? What can Armenia do to sustain its population and technology level, stave off being crushed by Tsarist authorities for “rebellion”, and do to aid co-ethnics in the Ottoman Empire?
I would say quite a lot in the short term, while the technology lasts. Possibly make an offer to the Russians to accept some sort of protectorate in return for aid and also offering that they would add to Russian territory the large area occupied by Armenians they would be able to take from the Ottomans, along with some technology and information. News of what happened in 191718 is likely to be of interest to the regime and fatal for some people including Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov and Ioseb Besarionis dze Jughashvili for a start.
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Post by raharris1973 on Sept 28, 2022 0:02:39 GMT
News of what happened in 191718 is likely to be of interest to the regime and fatal for some people including Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov and Ioseb Besarionis dze Jughashvili for a start. Indeed. And Anastas Mikoyan might simply be 'zapped' out of existence by the effects of being overwritten by a time-traveling homeland. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Sept 28, 2022 21:07:56 GMT
News of what happened in 191718 is likely to be of interest to the regime and fatal for some people including Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov and Ioseb Besarionis dze Jughashvili for a start. Indeed. And Anastas Mikoyan might simply be 'zapped' out of existence by the effects of being overwritten by a time-traveling homeland.
Never heard of him before but an interesting character and one hell of a survivor to live through all that. Especially since he seems to have had some morals or at least personal interests which made him try and save some of the purge victims and later supported Khrushchev de-Stalinization. |
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Post by raharris1973 on Sept 29, 2022 1:20:02 GMT
Indeed. And Anastas Mikoyan might simply be 'zapped' out of existence by the effects of being overwritten by a time-traveling homeland.
Never heard of him before but an interesting character and one hell of a survivor to live through all that. Especially since he seems to have had some morals or at least personal interests which made him try and save some of the purge victims and later supported Khrushchev de-Stalinization. I remember him because he remained prominent in the Kennedy-Khrushchev years, with building the relationship with Cuba. |
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Post by shadow007 on Oct 10, 2022 4:08:29 GMT
Guess the Ottoman Empire doesn't exist and does not participate in WW1. No Armenian Genocide. Europeans gobble up Middle-east real estate.
The Russian Empire executes Lenin and Stalin while upgrading their tech with Armenia's help. Serbia, Greece, Albania and Bulgaria eat a lot of Ottoman territory
Japan could lose the Russo-Japanese 1905 War if they don't upgrade their tech fast enough and utilize modern tactics and strategies. Though they are still probably going to win.
Russia is forced to reformed itself to be a semi-constitutional monarchy.
China upgrades its tech ASAP. Same with the US and Mexico. The Major Powers get Nukes. So no WW1 or 1917 Influenza.
US Civil Rights Movement in the 1900s. Spotlight and MeToo in the 1910s.
First nation to Legalize LGBT Rights gets a lot of Gay Immigrants.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Oct 10, 2022 10:34:48 GMT
Guess the Ottoman Empire doesn't exist and does not participate in WW1. No Armenian Genocide. Europeans gobble up Middle-east real estate. The Russian Empire executes Lenin and Stalin while upgrading their tech with Armenia's help. Serbia, Greece, Albania and Bulgaria eat a lot of Ottoman territory Japan could lose the Russo-Japanese 1905 War if they don't upgrade their tech fast enough and utilize modern tactics and strategies. Though they are still probably going to win. Russia is forced to reformed itself to be a semi-constitutional monarchy. China upgrades its tech ASAP. Same with the US and Mexico. The Major Powers get Nukes. So no WW1 or 1917 Influenza. US Civil Rights Movement in the 1900s. Spotlight and MeToo in the 1910s. First nation to Legalize LGBT Rights gets a lot of Gay Immigrants.
I think some of those dates for social changes are rather too early given the viewpoints of the bulk of the world at the time. Not sure how liberal 1995 was but even if supporting all those viewpoints its going to have limited traction on a lot of the world's population.
Tech spread would be of some benefit to Armenia but also dangerous as its still a small fish in a large pond without that tech advantage. It can and very likely will secure a large independent Armenian state and probably some non-Armenian areas depending on how the initial conflict goes. However too much technology spreading too quickly and its likely to get at best puppetized by someone, probably Russia. Mind you non-Armenians in the country including all the embassies are in most cases going to spread as much info to their down-time homelands as they can.
The Russian empire will very likely get rid of some OTL problems but might also go for more moderate targets as well, which might not be in its best interests. It will be interested in new tech, especially for the military but maintaining and using a lot of what the Armenians have could be a massive task. The Armenians will have problems any way beyond the short term as well. Also too much of this knowledge and technology could be unpopular with the Russian [and other] elites if it requires social or political changes and I can see a lot of opposition by Nickolas II and his supporters to anything that restricts their power. I was wondering whether Armenian medical knowledge could help his son, which might play a factor but Alexei wasn't born until 1904 so is going to be butterflied and its uncertain whether any son he and his wife have will hemophilia.
Similar issues with a lot of other countries, especially ones under reactionary governments such as China, which is also likely to be thrown into some turmoil on knowledge of both the forthcoming Boxer revolt and its defeat and that the dynasty only lasted another 20 years. The US will have to decide how it responses to knowledge that it attacks Spain on false premises and the European powers on the devastation of two world wars and the collapse of both European power and their colonial empires. All that desire to stay great powers will be interested in modern weapons, especially nukes so expect a lot of nuclear programmes to be launched but everybody will struggle with the demands of such a project.
News from the future will throw everybody into a spin and a lot of people in assorted countries are likely to be asking do we want to/how can we avoid doing what they did OTL. A lot of political and military careers are going to be cut short. Not just for reasons of 'future' incompetence either.
Japan is currently involved in its war with Japan China - which ended on April 17th - but will be most concerned about what it hears about the future, especially if there are signs that Russia is receiving tech form Armenia and might try a desperate bid to 'win' and drive the Russians from Manchuria before too much changes but they could be too strained after the war with China.
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melanie
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Post by melanie on Oct 10, 2022 18:47:13 GMT
" Japan is currently involved in its war with Japan"
That would have been an immense strain.
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Post by raharris1973 on Oct 11, 2022 3:31:02 GMT
" Japan is currently involved in its war with Japan" That would have been an immense strain. I get the joke  but I think he meant with China. |
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Post by shadow007 on Oct 11, 2022 6:51:56 GMT
The Colonies gain independence much earlier and receive a lot of reparations. The Europeans and US do that rather than risk a Dirty Bomb or 9/11 or Mass Shootings in European Homelands by Desperate Colonials
Trust in the church plummits as Spotlight occurs around 1901. Vatican is sued and forced to pay Billions to Child Abuse victims.
Russia passes reforms rather than risk countless bombings, assassinations and terrorist attacks
Cold War in the early 1900s
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Oct 11, 2022 13:30:19 GMT
" Japan is currently involved in its war with Japan" That would have been an immense strain.
OK corrected thanks.
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Post by shadow007 on Oct 16, 2022 4:50:44 GMT
US Civil Rights Movement in the early 1900s. BLM and Social Media makes headways.
Armenia becomes filthy rich and receives a lot of immigrants
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but I think he meant with China.