My take on the white man's burden

[justiniano]

I think that the first generation of colonizers in Africa used it purely as a justification to conquer parts of Africa and didn't actually believe it was their burden to civilize Africans (ofc many of the places they thought they were civilizing were already civilized). However, when you tell a child a lie as though it is a fact, even if you don't believe it, the child will. So, I think subsequent generations genuinely believed in it. Is this accurate?

[simon darkshade]

Short answer: No

Longer answer: It does depend on which groups/nations we are talking about. There wasn't a monolithic entity of 'colonisers' even in generations, but different states (and even different groups within those states) with varying motivations. I further think that you are falling into the trap of just thinking about the colonisation of Africa as a late 19th century occurrence when it had been building up for centuries.

There wasn't a conspiratorial lie or pretext behind their actions, nor was the notion used as a 'justification'.

[stevep]

  justiniano ,

   As Simon says its a hell of a lot more complex than that.  Some colonization occurred earlier, chiefly in S Africa  or a few outposts in western Africa along with even earlier a temporary Portuguese presence in E Africa.  Then came French interest in N Africa with a partial excuse to suppress the Barbary pirates who had been a problem for centuries.  Later of course intellectual and then political and economic interest in Egypt which was greatly increased when the completion of the Suez Canal significantly increased its strategic importance.

  The big surge into the rest of Africa from about 1880 had multiple sources.  Initially there were attempts to end slavery - not just the triangular trade but all slavery - and missionary work.  This expanded as economics, strategy and status played a steadily increasing role in many cases.  It was in this latter stage that most of the colonial excesses started although there continued to be a range of other motives.

  Steve

[justiniano]

Oct 1, 2022 5:27:26 GMT simon darkshade said:

nor was the notion used as a 'justification'.

Ok, why was the white man's burden thought of then?

[justiniano]

Oct 1, 2022 12:45:08 GMT stevep said:

  The big surge into the rest of Africa from about 1880 had multiple sources.  Initially there were attempts to end slavery - not just the triangular trade but all slavery - and missionary work.  This expanded as economics, strategy and status played a steadily increasing role in many cases.  It was in this latter stage that most of the colonial excesses started although there continued to be a range of other motives.

Ok then, you tell me. Where did the white man's burden come into this?

[lordroel]

Do not know what to think of this thread with a thread title, My take on the white man's burden.

So if justiniano can explain if he thinks all white man are guilty of slavery ore only certain countries it would be great, also does he know that slavery existed long before the Europeans got involved.

[justiniano]

Oct 1, 2022 18:03:29 GMT lordroel said:

So if justiniano can explain if he thinks all white man are guilty of slavery

I don't. I have no idea what gave you that impression, usually I'm the one arguing against white countries giving reparations.

Oct 1, 2022 18:03:29 GMT lordroel said:

also does he know that slavery existed long before the Europeans got involved.

I sure do

[simon darkshade]

Oct 1, 2022 17:01:34 GMT justiniano said:

Oct 1, 2022 5:27:26 GMT simon darkshade said:

nor was the notion used as a 'justification'.

Ok, why was the white man's burden thought of then?

1.) Threads and conversations don’t really work that way, my dear boy.
2.) Even if they did, I’m rather pushed for time until Wednesday with a lovely thing called shift work.

Once I’m free, I’ll have a go, if I remember.

[justiniano]

Oct 2, 2022 1:43:34 GMT simon darkshade said:

1.) Threads and conversations don’t really work that way, my dear boy.

How do they work then?

Oct 2, 2022 1:43:34 GMT simon darkshade said:

2.) Even if they did, I’m rather pushed for time until Wednesday with a lovely thing called shift work.

Once I’m free, I’ll have a go, if I remember.

Ty, I completely understand. Is it ok if I remind you on wednesday?

[simon darkshade]

Don’t go through the bother of reminding; I can remember through all these lovely notifications.

[lordroel]

Okay having kept this thread open for a day i am closing it, i see no historical discussion going on here and more a Quora type of thread.

Thread clossed.