lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 19, 2022 22:25:28 GMT
lordroel, would a better PoD be that Khruschev is sent to a gulag for life during Stalin's purges and Stalin appoints Lazar as his successor? Again, Stalin was a man on the prime of his power, why would he appoint a person as his successor, also who ever is Stalin successor will have a giant target on his back. |
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Post by justiniano on Nov 22, 2022 0:23:58 GMT
, Stalin was a man on the prime of his power, Not if it was in his last year alive. why would he appoint a person as his successor To avoid any succession crises. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 22, 2022 5:00:01 GMT
, Stalin was a man on the prime of his power, Not if it was in his last year alive. why would he appoint a person as his successor To avoid any succession crises. From OTL, in January 1952 he had doctors imprisoned after they suggested that he should retire to improve his health. That is Stalin he arrests and imprisoned for even suggesting he retire ore improve his health. |
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Post by justiniano on Nov 22, 2022 15:04:18 GMT
lordroel, I still fail to see why you think it's far fetched that Stalin would appoint a successor shortly before he dies to avoid a succession crisis.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 22, 2022 15:07:39 GMT
lordroel, I still fail to see why you think it's far fetched that Stalin would appoint a successor shortly before he dies to avoid a succession crisis. As i have said before, if he appoint a successor, especially in the Soviet Union where power struggles are normal, he might end up being retired by his successor, dead ore alive. Also we have seen in the past that Stalin had no problem getting rid of anybody who posed a threat to him. |
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Post by justiniano on Nov 22, 2022 20:21:13 GMT
he might end up being retired by his successor, dead ore alive. So are you saying he might fear something like this? |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 22, 2022 20:23:26 GMT
he might end up being retired by his successor, dead ore alive. So are you saying he might fear something like this? Yes, made sure that what he did to others would not happen to him. |
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Post by justiniano on Nov 22, 2022 22:38:44 GMT
lordroel, maybe after one of his strokes (or whatever he was suffering from that caused him to see the doctor) he starts thinking about the future of the USSR after his death, so he thinks about who the most loyal soviet official is and after a lot of thought selects Lazar. Is this far fetched?
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Post by simon darkshade on Nov 23, 2022 12:10:17 GMT
Stalin was the antithesis of a thoughtful, rational fellow who would think "Oh, I better anoint a specific successor, as I'm not long for this world!"
He was a paranoid megalomaniac who killed and disappeared countless people on little more than whims. A potential successor is a threat to his position today, hence anyone fitting that role had a big target painted on them.
Your scenario fails on the very first clause, but even if we ascribe momentarily lucidity to Stalin, Lazar Bloody Kaganovich doesn't suddenly become a superman and wins out over Beria, Malenkov, Zhukov, Khrushchev and Molotov.
Even if he does, if he backs Mossadegh over Britain and the USA, then it is WW3 at a time when the US vastly outguns the USSR in nuclear stakes. The West isn't going to suddenly give up on the Middle East because of Soviet support of one leader; quite the opposite.
In Futurama, there is a phrase spoken by Morbo, the alien newsreader:
"Windmills do not work that way! Goodnight!"
Soviet politics do not work that way.
Superpower politics do not work that way.
The Middle East does not work that way.
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Post by justiniano on Nov 23, 2022 16:11:42 GMT
Even if he does, if he backs Mossadegh over Britain and the USA, then it is WW3 at a time when the US vastly outguns the USSR in nuclear stakes. The West isn't going to suddenly give up on the Middle East because of Soviet support of one leader; quite the opposite. Why not just another proxy war? |
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Post by simon darkshade on Nov 23, 2022 16:23:28 GMT
It occurs directly after Korea, following on from Eisenhower being elected on the basis of ending said conflict, with the direct undertone of “Our words are backed by nuclear weapons”. The New Look is just coming in.
This isn’t a proxy area, but quite important oil. The Soviets don’t have any proxies, having given up in 1946 precisely because it was such a vital area. It is not for nothing that there are more than a few books and films on WW3 starting due to a US-Soviet clash in Persia.
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Post by justiniano on Nov 23, 2022 23:49:09 GMT
It occurs directly after Korea, following on from Eisenhower being elected on the basis of ending said conflict, with the direct undertone of “Our words are backed by nuclear weapons”. The New Look is just coming in. This isn’t a proxy area, but quite important oil. The Soviets don’t have any proxies, having given up in 1946 precisely because it was such a vital area. It is not for nothing that there are more than a few books and films on WW3 starting due to a US-Soviet clash in Persia. I'm sorry but you're going to have to dumb this down for me. Btw would this be a better way of Lazar to succeed Stalin? He outmaneuvers the other players after Stalin's death. |
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Post by simon darkshade on Nov 24, 2022 0:52:39 GMT
That is the basic version.
Kaganovich had no power base or support beyond Stalin and being a fanatical Stalinist. He displayed no ability at political manoeuvres in life of the kind necessary to be a top rank contender. Even Malenkov was more capable than him.
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Post by justiniano on Nov 24, 2022 15:37:17 GMT
simon darkshade,Even if Stalin promoted him to as high a position as beria, malenkov or Khruschev?
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Post by simon darkshade on Nov 24, 2022 15:43:59 GMT
He was already over-promoted to Deputy Chairman. Being a ruthless accomplice and instrument of Stalinist murder didn’t turn out to be much of a CV for high office.
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