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Post by SpaceOrbisHistory on Nov 25, 2022 21:31:18 GMT
Sometime In March of 1889 a German naval force shells a village in Samoa, destroying some American property and three American warships enter the Samoan harbor and prepare to fire on the three German warships found there. However just before their guns are fired, a hurricane blows in and sinks all the ships, American and German. A compulsory armistice is called because of the lack of warships.
What do you think would happen had this not happened? Had we sink those ships do you think a war between the United States and Germany would have started and if so, how bad would it be?
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 25, 2022 21:52:57 GMT
Sometime In March of 1889 a German naval force shells a village in Samoa, destroying some American property and three American warships enter the Samoan harbor and prepare to fire on the three German warships found there. However just before their guns are fired, a hurricane blows in and sinks all the ships, American and German. A compulsory armistice is called because of the lack of warships. What do you think would happen had this not happened? Had we sink those ships do you think a war between the United States and Germany would have started and if so, how bad would it be? Nice but can you add (Samoa) to the thread title and date, makes it easy for member to go to the thread knowing which hurricane prevent a American-German War. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 26, 2022 13:48:38 GMT
Here's a bit more on the situation Samoa in the 19th century. Britain, Germany and the US were all tussling for power and that wasn't the only clash before an agreement between the US and Germany with Britain getting compensation elsewhere. |
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Post by raharris1973 on Nov 27, 2022 5:05:03 GMT
Nice idea- this was explored at least once in the other place, I think in a scenario called 'a new kratocracy'.
I've personally explored the second Samoan civil war, 10 years later, being a point of departure for US - German conflict in 1899 here:https://historum.com/t/the-anglo-american-japanese-v-german-boer-war-of-1899-and-its-consequences.192038/. and here:https://www.the-sietch.com/index.php?threads/the-anglo-american-japanese-v-german-boer-war-of-1899-and-its-consequences.7140/. and here:https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/the-anglo-american-japanese-v-german-boer-war-of-1899-and-its-consequences.526431/
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 27, 2022 11:42:31 GMT
Well both powers are in a belligerent colonial phase but neither really have much capacity to hurt the other in a wider world. Two powerful economics with the German one far more developed militarily but has no way to project that power against the US. Similarly while neither side are particularly powerful naval powers at this point - the US probably having something of an edge their too distant from each other. Because of its geographical advantage the US is likely to 'win' a war in the Pacific. Although if the two sides cripple each other's immediate naval strength and also alienate the locals enough it could be Britain that's the winner in Samoa.  |
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Post by raharris1973 on Nov 27, 2022 16:45:09 GMT
Well both powers are in a belligerent colonial phase but neither really have much capacity to hurt the other in a wider world. Two powerful economics with the German one far more developed militarily but has no way to project that power against the US. Similarly while neither side are particularly powerful naval powers at this point - the US probably having something of an edge their too distant from each other. Because of its geographical advantage the US is likely to 'win' a war in the Pacific. Although if the two sides cripple each other's immediate naval strength and also alienate the locals enough it could be Britain that's the winner in Samoa. At the distance that Samoa is from both the American and German homelands, the outcome of the struggle on the scene there is really anybody's game and depends on the luck of whose ships are better and more numerous at the scene, and in surrounding seas for follow-up actions. |
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Post by SpaceOrbisHistory on Nov 27, 2022 17:46:30 GMT
Well both powers are in a belligerent colonial phase but neither really have much capacity to hurt the other in a wider world. Two powerful economics with the German one far more developed militarily but has no way to project that power against the US. Similarly while neither side are particularly powerful naval powers at this point - the US probably having something of an edge their too distant from each other. Because of its geographical advantage the US is likely to 'win' a war in the Pacific. Although if the two sides cripple each other's immediate naval strength and also alienate the locals enough it could be Britain that's the winner in Samoa. At the distance that Samoa is from both the American and German homelands, the outcome of the struggle on the scene there is really anybody's game and depends on the luck of whose ships are better and more numerous at the scene, and in surrounding seas for follow-up actions. Having taken a look at when it would be in relation to other nations it looks like it may be a few hundred miles from Australia. So, it may be possible that they use that as a place to base their ships for such a follow-up action. If I were to guess I would say it would be the British that win should this turn into any sort of war over the islands. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 28, 2022 18:41:36 GMT
At the distance that Samoa is from both the American and German homelands, the outcome of the struggle on the scene there is really anybody's game and depends on the luck of whose ships are better and more numerous at the scene, and in surrounding seas for follow-up actions. Having taken a look at when it would be in relation to other nations it looks like it may be a few hundred miles from Australia. So, it may be possible that they use that as a place to base their ships for such a follow-up action. If I were to guess I would say it would be the British that win should this turn into any sort of war over the islands.
Both that and Britain has a much larger fleet and also infrastructure with bases and the like. THis assumes that Britain becomes directly involved in the combat. The initial clash is between the Germans and Americans so Britain could seek to mediate or simply seek to protect its interests. If the other two are fighting among themselves Britain could end up both as the 'last man standing' and as a compromise overlord for the islands that is seen as the least worse case to the other two.
Of course depending on how much damage they do to each other and the reactions in the respective homeland they could double up in terms of seeking to secure other concessions or see this as a waste of resources and cut back.
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