Germany from 2019 ISOT to June 20 1941

[Otto Kretschmer]

What can Germany do to end the war and what role in the postwar world does it have?

IMO the first thing to do is to send messages to the Wehrmacht units outside of Germany to lay down the arms. The issue is that they may not listen to them and continue fighting.

What do you guys think?

[stevep]

Dec 4, 2022 14:53:33 GMT Otto Kretschmer said:

What can Germany do to end the war and what role in the postwar world does it have?

IMO the first thing to do is to send messages to the Wehrmacht units outside of Germany to lay down the arms. The issue is that they may not listen to them and continue fighting.

What do you guys think?

  Well its going to open many cans of worms.  Should be able to force the German armies [down-time] ones if only because their now totally cut off from supplies.  How the Soviets react after this could be an interesting point.

  Your also got sizeable areas outside Germany under German/Axis control.  For instance those lands it lost to Poland and Czechoslovakia as well as Alsace-Lorraine which have substantial German populations, in the former case an overwhelming majority.  Assuming they stay part of 'Germany' their going to have to be brought up to date both economically and socially and also de-Nazisifed.  Along with non-German lands their not going to be popular in - such as Poland - which will still be lacking its Soviet occupied eastern lands - the bulk of Czechoslovakia, much of Yugoslavia and Greece and of course in the west France, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark and Norway.  Then there are the many allies of the Nazis in Italy, Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria - possibly Finland and the Croat state.  How are they going to be handled?  Also what happens to  Austria?

  Furthermore a lot of Nazis, probably including Hitler who is likely at the Wolves Lair, with Barbarossa starting off, will still be about and have to be hunted down to avoid them leading Nazi remnants. 

  I would expect that Britain will be glad to make peace with a democratic Germany, although it will fear its power and technological edge plus there will be a lot of odds and ends to be sorted out, especially in terms of dealing with the other fascists powers.  Would modern Germany be willing to fight against people such as Mussolini?

  There is also the question of Japan in the far east and what happens when details of its behaviour in China and later against the other allied powers come out.

  One other issue is that of course there are going to be a fair number of non-Germans inside modern Germany including probably some US forces with nukes as well as a lot of civilians from around the world.  They could have a big impact on their down-time nations although in some cases they will be radically different.

  Germany will have problems, both because its cut off from its entire foreign trade network has been lost - if you think it has problems now with cutting of Russia oil and gas there's very little now available and a lot of other things will be lacking.  Also if it ends up trying to integrate the down-time German areas, which include probably 10-15 million people, more if Austria is included who are far more conservative even when not supportive of the Nazi regime.  Many of them would be appalled with the liberal values of 2019 and its far more mixed population.

[shadow007]

Dec 4, 2022 14:53:33 GMT Otto Kretschmer said:

What can Germany do to end the war and what role in the postwar world does it have?

IMO the first thing to do is to send messages to the Wehrmacht units outside of Germany to lay down the arms. The issue is that they may not listen to them and continue fighting.

What do you guys think?

This is before Operation Barbarossa so 25 MILLION Soviets get to live in this Alternate Timeline. Expect MANY downtime Axis soldiers, especially Germans, to be massacred without mercy by VERY ANGRY uptime Germans. Holocaust camps are quickly liberated, all the guards killed with predijuce

There are American nukes in Modern Germany. Nuking the Axis, especially Japan, probably occurs to end the war quicker and MAKE THEM HURT. (Nazis/Fascists are seen as the ultimate evil so the Modern Uptimers would have no problem nuking them)

The entire world is forced to educate their populations about out history, especially about WW2 Crimes Against Humanity. 1941 Humans become much more Liberal and Progressive compared to us overtime

I take it you choose 2019 like I choose 2018 for many of my scenarios, prevent Covid from getting to other Timelines?

Israel and Palestine would still exist but both places aren't warzones. Middle-east is given Independence but national borders are either altered or nations dissolved so that ethnic groups and economies aren't impractically divided. Similar thing happens with Africa.

The former Axis nations are forced to pay more reparations than they did in our history. Stalin is assassinated and replaced with someone much more sane and friendly with the Allies. No Cold War

US is hit very hard by the Civil Rights Movement and intimidation tactics by Modern Germany during the 1940s. KKK hunted down without mercy. Racist politicians, business leaders and clergy forced to resign or be killed by angry minorities or secretly assassinated by German agents

Modern German pardons many of its criminals in exchange for working for the government. Crime and corruption all over the world are brutally reduced.

Modern Germany's economy booms like crazy. They keep Austria and Czechoslovakia annexed as well as reform their economies and cultures. They build up Israel and Palestine's economies and infrastructure as well.

US does not experience the same massive wealth increase in this 1950s. It's more but much lower in proportion to the rest of the world.

Germany forces US not to rely on cars for primary transportation. Their suburbs are modeled on the more efficient and less depressing European ones

Solar Power becomes the dominant source in many nations. Transportation is much faster, more efficient and much less damagining to the environment

Social Media is well regulated by the German government. German embassies all over the world have pro-Atheist, pro-Women and pro-LGBT banners. Child abuse, especially by priests, is actually taken seriously this time around. (200k French kids won't be molested in this Alternate Timeline)

Reagan and the Religious Right's resurgence doesn't occur. Reagan is forced into hiding and living a normal life for fear his historical actions have angered a lot of people

Tolkien gets to see all six LOTR movies alongside a much younger Christopher Lee. Peter Cushing sees all six Star Wars movies as well.

The Good Neighbor policy is implemented on 1941 between Ireland and UK averting the Troubles. UK is 'persuaded' to PERMANENTLY join the European Union. Margaret Thatcher is screwed just like Reagan, Nixon and Ford.

A lot more people live up to their 90s. Eventually Humanity would be able to live past 120 years and in outer space. Modern Germany gets to spend a lot of its booming money into Gene-Editing and Space Colonization

I rather live in this Timeline than ours