What If; USS Battleship New Jersey Time Travels to the American Revolution?

[lordroel]

You want a answer why sending a battleship into a period where they cannot make fuel for it is not a good idea, this nice clip from the Battleship New Jersey YouTube Channel explains it.

[SpaceOrbisHistory]

As fun an idea as this may be any battleship sent to this time would be more or less worthless. Sure when it has ammo it's a nightmare but once it has no power and ammo it's just an oversized ship taking up space. The only worth it would have is showing that ships can be armored.

[stevep]

   One other thing he assumes of course, watching the video again, is that it has a full wartime crew.  Which might not be the case. 

  I think the biggest impact would probably be information aboard the ship, either from any crew and also any papers, books and the like that DTers would find aboard it.  Although what they might thing of modern society that develops!  Let alone if they take any fiction/fantasy/SF they find seriously.

[belushitd]

Well, whatever port it parks itself in is effectively immune from British attacks. Wouldn't even need to use the main guns. The 5 inch secondaries would be quite sufficient, thank you very much.

Depending on the skills of the engineers in the ship, it is concievable to convert the ship to coal powered prior to it running out of steam (literally). It would take a particularly flexible engineer and command crew, but its possible.

Belushi TD

[lordroel]

Feb 2, 2023 17:25:44 GMT belushitd said:

Well, whatever port it parks itself in is effectively immune from British attacks. Wouldn't even need to use the main guns. The 5 inch secondaries would be quite sufficient, thank you very much.

Depending on the skills of the engineers in the ship, it is concievable to convert the ship to coal powered prior to it running out of steam (literally). It would take a particularly flexible engineer and command crew, but its possible.

Belushi TD

We also do not forget there are 1,921 officers and men onboard with skills that Continental Army can use.

[belushitd]

Yes and no. What skills do they have? They can certainly make a steam plant work. Also make heavy artillery work. Can they do musket drill? Enforce hygiene practices? Come up with vaccines?

Depending on when the ship is ISOTed to the revolution, the Marine detachment may be able to provide a serious communication benefit to Washington until the batteries run out, but the skills they have are all 20th century skills. Compared to the 18th century, you're looking at having to build the tools to build the tools to make an effective weapon.

Belushi TD

[lordroel]

Feb 2, 2023 17:54:28 GMT belushitd said:

Yes and no. What skills do they have? They can certainly make a steam plant work. Also make heavy artillery work. Can they do musket drill? Enforce hygiene practices? Come up with vaccines?

Depending on when the ship is ISOTed to the revolution, the Marine detachment may be able to provide a serious communication benefit to Washington until the batteries run out, but the skills they have are all 20th century skills. Compared to the 18th century, you're looking at having to build the tools to build the tools to make an effective weapon.

Belushi TD

There must be US Marines aboard the New Jersey and there is a Small Arms Locker on Battleship New Jersey.

[belushitd]

There was. But what can a company of troops equipped with Springfields/M-1/M-14/M-16 (Depending on the era) with severely limited ammo do?

Sure, they can blow the hell out of the British army in one or maybe two engagements. After that, what are they going to do?

Belushi TD

[lordroel]

Feb 2, 2023 18:04:58 GMT belushitd said:

There was. But what can a company of troops equipped with Springfields/M-1/M-14/M-16 (Depending on the era) with severely limited ammo do?

Sure, they can blow the hell out of the British army in one or maybe two engagements. After that, what are they going to do?

Belushi TD

So no Guns of the South, if you know the novel.

[belushitd]

Not unless they can collect and reload all their brass.

Like I said, one or maybe two engagements. This may depend on how well they are able to control their trigger fingers. Single shot, target the officers and sergeants, don't let them get anywhere close (minimum 200 yards or so).

I am not familiar with how many rounds or weapons were routinely kept on the New Jersey. I suspect it was not more than enough to equip a company at best.

Belushi TD

[lordroel]

Feb 5, 2023 4:54:00 GMT belushitd said:

Not unless they can collect and reload all their brass.

Like I said, one or maybe two engagements. This may depend on how well they are able to control their trigger fingers. Single shot, target the officers and sergeants, don't let them get anywhere close (minimum 200 yards or so).

I am not familiar with how many rounds or weapons were routinely kept on the New Jersey. I suspect it was not more than enough to equip a company at best.

Belushi TD

Well one ore two engagements against the British must give a shock effect, the British encountering weapons that can fire faster that a British soldier can reload.

[SpaceOrbisHistory]

Besides as a shock to the British, there is really no way they can do much of any real worth in the war. The real power of this is in my eyes after the war. Once the guns stop firing and the bodies stop dropping. The crew could do a lot to aid in making the US navy a force on the seas a hell of a lot sooner then in our world.

[stevep]

Feb 5, 2023 18:38:16 GMT SpaceOrbisHistory said:

Besides as a shock to the British, there is really no way they can do much of any real worth in the war. The real power of this is in my eyes after the war. Once the guns stop firing and the bodies stop dropping. The crew could do a lot to aid in making the US navy a force on the seas a hell of a lot sooner then in our world.

  That might depend on how well the crew manages to influence the 'founding fathers' and in which ways.  Plus also what the impacts are on the rest of the 18thC.  How will the locals react to the knowledge of 21st century values and developments?

[belushitd]

I don't think the crew of the New Jersey would have much effect on making the US Navy a force on the seas in a practical sense. No one, not even the entire world put together, can build an iron ship at that point in time. None of them (probably) have skills that translate well to the 1770's to 1790's. None of them probably have the knowledge to invent the Bessemer process to start mass production of steel. And none of them have practical knowledge on how to build improved wooden ships. The engineering staff might be able to copy any particular aspect of the ship, given materials, but they are in the position of having to build the tools to recreate the processes to build the tools to build the tools to recreate a subcomponent of the ship. Yes, I know Fulton started only a couple decades later, and that steam engines were already a thing in mills in the UK, but what are you going to do? Go straight from single expansion simple steam engines to high pressure high temperature boilers and turbines?

I do think the crew of the New Jersey would have much more of an effect on the founding fathers in a political sense. The crew does know a whole bunch of stuff and just being able to tell the founding fathers what "they had wrought" might be enough to convince the south to give up slavery much sooner and without 4 years of bloodshed. Showing the founding fathers what had ended up working and what had not might save them a fair bit. Depending on the exact date of arrival, the nascent US might be able to avoid the Articles of Confederation along with the Whiskey rebellion and Shay's rebellion.

Depending on how eloquent they were, they might be able to convince the founding fathers of any number of things, including better treatment for the Indian and the black, and staying out of the war of 1812, assuming it happens. Perhaps education and women having the vote, as well? Having a 45,000 ton steel ship appear out of nowhere and say "Hey, we're from your future, and we're on your side" would certainly make the leaders of the revolution sit up and take notice. It also might make them put stuff in the constitution to prevent things that are normal in the modern world, but unthinkable to the 1780 era. Income tax, anyone?

Belushi TD

[stevep]

Feb 6, 2023 17:59:47 GMT belushitd said:

I don't think the crew of the New Jersey would have much effect on making the US Navy a force on the seas in a practical sense. No one, not even the entire world put together, can build an iron ship at that point in time. None of them (probably) have skills that translate well to the 1770's to 1790's. None of them probably have the knowledge to invent the Bessemer process to start mass production of steel. And none of them have practical knowledge on how to build improved wooden ships. The engineering staff might be able to copy any particular aspect of the ship, given materials, but they are in the position of having to build the tools to recreate the processes to build the tools to build the tools to recreate a subcomponent of the ship. Yes, I know Fulton started only a couple decades later, and that steam engines were already a thing in mills in the UK, but what are you going to do? Go straight from single expansion simple steam engines to high pressure high temperature boilers and turbines?

I do think the crew of the New Jersey would have much more of an effect on the founding fathers in a political sense. The crew does know a whole bunch of stuff and just being able to tell the founding fathers what "they had wrought" might be enough to convince the south to give up slavery much sooner and without 4 years of bloodshed. Showing the founding fathers what had ended up working and what had not might save them a fair bit. Depending on the exact date of arrival, the nascent US might be able to avoid the Articles of Confederation along with the Whiskey rebellion and Shay's rebellion.

Depending on how eloquent they were, they might be able to convince the founding fathers of any number of things, including better treatment for the Indian and the black, and staying out of the war of 1812, assuming it happens. Perhaps education and women having the vote, as well? Having a 45,000 ton steel ship appear out of nowhere and say "Hey, we're from your future, and we're on your side" would certainly make the leaders of the revolution sit up and take notice. It also might make them put stuff in the constitution to prevent things that are normal in the modern world, but unthinkable to the 1780 era. Income tax, anyone?

Belushi TD

  The impact of ideas would be by far the greatest I suspect, both in the US and elsewhere.  I'm not sure that it would involve a quick end to slavery, given how widespread it was at that point but hopefully end it earlier and with less suffering all around.  A lot might also depend on the origins of the crew, both in terms of 'race', religion and sex as that would raise a lot of questions as well.