Denmark of 9 April 1940 ISOT to 1 February 1864.

[575]

Christiansborg Palace, Copenhagen seat of Parliament 3 PM



Stauning had given a overwiev of what was know to have happened during the day or rather since 0415 AM in the morning.
Apparently Denmark had been removed from 1940 and sent back in time to the ewe of the Second Schleswig War of 1864 with the Prussian and Austrian Armies to cross into Slesvig and the German Confederation Army in Holstein.
P. Munch had given his wiev of the events and had called for diplomatic efford to stop the war from erupting.
There had been some talks with Swedish Authourities in Scania and collection of Swedish newspapers of the day to prove the point. Sweden like Slesvig really was living in 1864 and was somewhat anxious as what was going to happen in Slesvig.
Conservative and Liberal Parties soon joined by the Peasants and NSDAP Parties had argued in favour of using force to evict the Prussians and Austrians from Slesvig.
Nobody was really sure of what to happen post that though it was recognized that something ought to be done about economy as the Gold Hoard - Stauning unveiled - had been removed from the Kingdom to be guarded abroad; the made for silence at first and then a cacophany of shouting next.
Treason was about the mildest uttered.

The numbers:
Parliament lower chamber – Folketing – 149 seats:
Government coalition Socialdemocratic Party – Social Liberal Party 78 seats.
Liberals 30
Conservatives 26
Peasant Party 4
Communists, Justice Party, DNSAP (yes Nazi) each 3
Slesvig Party (German Minority North Schleswig) 1
Faeroe Isles Member 1

Liberals and Conservatives wanting immediate mobilization and movement of the Army into Slesvig and the Navy to instigate a blockade of Prussian coasts and other German ports as well as maintaining a North Sea Squadron for when the Austrian Navy would arrive.
Communists and Slesvig Party were strongly against; DNSAP joined ranks with the Conservatives which the Peasant Party did too following some debate but the Justice Party like the Social Liberals were against use of arms.
The Faeroe Member decided to join along Government or what of it would survive and during the course of the debate the Justice Party was swinging back and forth and ended in the armed camp.
The Conservatives and Liberals called for a National Unity Government as formed during the Great War but the Social Liberals were not entirely for that proposal.

Stauning asked for an hour recession of debate to talk to his coalition partner; Conservative, Liberal, Peasant Party, DNSAP MPs flocked to the Snaps-thing (Parliament Restaurant) for their talks in the interlude.
Justice Party looked at the lone Faeroe member asking him to join them even though they had differences in opinion; which he did not wanting any journalist around to see him join the armed camp at the Snaps-thing.

[575]

Feb 18, 2023 18:05:32 GMT lordroel said:

Feb 18, 2023 15:57:41 GMT 575 said:

I'm quite certain the Norwegian Ambassador at the time Legate or Minister to Copenhagen would like to see an independent Norway however Sweden don't want such. We will get a little closer to the subject soon however.

Denmark really lack high quality iron and steel made from such - Sweden will be able to deliver. As Sweden and Norway have the looming shadow of Russia in the East they will want some tech to be able to stay free - need I say more?

Well i found that the United States Minister to Denmark at the time of the OTL German invasion of Denmark was Ray Atherton.

The British Minister to Denmark was Charles Howard Smith

And the Envoy of Norway to Denmark was August Esmarch

Thank you; three less to research!

[lordroel]

Feb 18, 2023 18:08:33 GMT 575 said:

Feb 18, 2023 18:05:32 GMT lordroel said:

Well i found that the United States Minister to Denmark at the time of the OTL German invasion of Denmark was Ray Atherton.

The British Minister to Denmark was Charles Howard Smith

And the Envoy of Norway to Denmark was August Esmarch

Thank you; three less to research!

No problem, when i like TLs i kinda go searching myself, i hope you do not mind.

[lordroel]

Feb 18, 2023 18:06:29 GMT 575 said:

Christiansborg Palace, Copenhagen seat of Parliament 3 PM



Stauning had given a overwiev of what was know to have happened during the day or rather since 0415 AM in the morning.
Apparently Denmark had been removed from 1940 and sent back in time to the ewe of the Second Schleswig War of 1864 with the Prussian and Austrian Armies to cross into Slesvig and the German Confederation Army in Holstein.
P. Munch had given his wiev of the events and had called for diplomatic efford to stop the war from erupting.
There had been some talks with Swedish Authourities in Scania and collection of Swedish newspapers of the day to prove the point. Sweden like Slesvig really was living in 1864 and was somewhat anxious as what was going to happen in Slesvig.
Conservative and Liberal Parties soon joined by the Peasants and NSDAP Parties had argued in favour of using force to evict the Prussians and Austrians from Slesvig.
Nobody was really sure of what to happen post that though it was recognized that something ought to be done about economy as the Gold Hoard - Stauning unveiled - had been removed from the Kingdom to be guarded abroad; the made for silence at first and then a cacophany of shouting next.
Treason was about the mildest uttered.

The numbers:
Parliament lower chamber – Folketing – 149 seats:
Government coalition Socialdemocratic Party – Social Liberal Party 78 seats.
Liberals 30
Conservatives 26
Peasant Party 4
Communists, Justice Party, DNSAP (yes Nazi) each 3
Slesvig Party (German Minority North Schleswig) 1
Faeroe Isles Member 1

Liberals and Conservatives wanting immediate mobilization and movement of the Army into Slesvig and the Navy to instigate a blockade of Prussian coasts and other German ports as well as maintaining a North Sea Squadron for when the Austrian Navy would arrive.
Communists and Slesvig Party were strongly against; DNSAP joined ranks with the Conservatives which the Peasant Party did too following some debate but the Justice Party like the Social Liberals were against use of arms.
The Faeroe Member decided to join along Government or what of it would survive and during the course of the debate the Justice Party was swinging back and forth and ended in the armed camp.
The Conservatives and Liberals called for a National Unity Government as formed during the Great War but the Social Liberals were not entirely for that proposal.

Stauning asked for an hour recession of debate to talk to his coalition partner; Conservative, Liberal, Peasant Party, DNSAP MPs flocked to the Snaps-thing (Parliament Restaurant) for their talks in the interlude.
Justice Party looked at the lone Faeroe member asking him to join them even though they had differences in opinion; which he did not wanting any journalist around to see him join the armed camp at the Snaps-thing.

The irony that the National Socialist Workers' Party of Denmark wants to use force against the Prussians who are the foundation of what becomes latter Germany.

[575]

Feb 18, 2023 18:11:33 GMT lordroel said:

Feb 18, 2023 18:06:29 GMT 575 said:

Christiansborg Palace, Copenhagen seat of Parliament 3 PM



Stauning had given a overwiev of what was know to have happened during the day or rather since 0415 AM in the morning.
Apparently Denmark had been removed from 1940 and sent back in time to the ewe of the Second Schleswig War of 1864 with the Prussian and Austrian Armies to cross into Slesvig and the German Confederation Army in Holstein.
P. Munch had given his wiev of the events and had called for diplomatic efford to stop the war from erupting.
There had been some talks with Swedish Authourities in Scania and collection of Swedish newspapers of the day to prove the point. Sweden like Slesvig really was living in 1864 and was somewhat anxious as what was going to happen in Slesvig.
Conservative and Liberal Parties soon joined by the Peasants and NSDAP Parties had argued in favour of using force to evict the Prussians and Austrians from Slesvig.
Nobody was really sure of what to happen post that though it was recognized that something ought to be done about economy as the Gold Hoard - Stauning unveiled - had been removed from the Kingdom to be guarded abroad; the made for silence at first and then a cacophany of shouting next.
Treason was about the mildest uttered.

The numbers:
Parliament lower chamber – Folketing – 149 seats:
Government coalition Socialdemocratic Party – Social Liberal Party 78 seats.
Liberals 30
Conservatives 26
Peasant Party 4
Communists, Justice Party, DNSAP (yes Nazi) each 3
Slesvig Party (German Minority North Schleswig) 1
Faeroe Isles Member 1

Liberals and Conservatives wanting immediate mobilization and movement of the Army into Slesvig and the Navy to instigate a blockade of Prussian coasts and other German ports as well as maintaining a North Sea Squadron for when the Austrian Navy would arrive.
Communists and Slesvig Party were strongly against; DNSAP joined ranks with the Conservatives which the Peasant Party did too following some debate but the Justice Party like the Social Liberals were against use of arms.
The Faeroe Member decided to join along Government or what of it would survive and during the course of the debate the Justice Party was swinging back and forth and ended in the armed camp.
The Conservatives and Liberals called for a National Unity Government as formed during the Great War but the Social Liberals were not entirely for that proposal.

Stauning asked for an hour recession of debate to talk to his coalition partner; Conservative, Liberal, Peasant Party, DNSAP MPs flocked to the Snaps-thing (Parliament Restaurant) for their talks in the interlude.
Justice Party looked at the lone Faeroe member asking him to join them even though they had differences in opinion; which he did not wanting any journalist around to see him join the armed camp at the Snaps-thing.

The irony that the National Socialist Workers' Party of Denmark wants to use force against the Prussians who are the foundation of what becomes latter Germany.

Indeed, indeed - but like so many other ultra-nationalist/fascist etc. political entities they were foremost Danish and really adopted the idea but not the nation!

Actually the Germans strongly disliked them and didn't want them in Government like the Norwegian Nazi's as they found them too stupid but so did the Prussians the Schleswig-Holsteiners during the 1. Schleswig War and used every chance to humilitate them for having revolted against their God-given Lord and Duke.

[575]

Feb 18, 2023 18:09:38 GMT lordroel said:

Feb 18, 2023 18:08:33 GMT 575 said:

Thank you; three less to research!

No problem, when i like TLs i kinda go searching myself, i hope you do not mind.

Not at all. There's usually something to use.

[575]

Christiansborg Palace, Parliament, PM's office interlude 6 PM
Stauning opened the meeting rashly to the dislike of P. Munch by advocating a National Unity Government. P. Munch replied that he only did so to eake out the Social Liberals from Government which Stauning of course answered ”no” and continued that grievious times such as these demand close cooperation.

Stauning also revealed his and P. Munchs agreement on the latter going to the Imperial Diet at Frankfurt a. M. to talk the case of Denmarks there to if possible defuse armed conflict.
Stauning also said he would put the Armed Forces on a Warfooting equal to the 26 August 1939 call up of reserves in addition to the recent mobilization of the Niels Juel and the Coastal Fortressess.
These uttering met with agreement by the Social Liberals which however still refused the proposal of a National Unity Government.
Stauning nodded and declared the meeting at an end.

[575]

Christiansborg Palace, Copenhagen seat of Parliament debate resumed 8PM
At its end Stauning proclaimed he still headed Government of yesterday though Foreign Minister P. Munch the next day would travel to Frankfurt a. M. to talk to the German Confederation which wasn't wholly behind the Prusso-Austrian Execution which the Austrians were assessed not to be too. P. Munch just might be able to bang a crack in the German armour.
Booing.

Stauning said he knew he had the mandate to interfere to save the Danish 1864 Army and Navy units but that he would do whatever it took try to keep the Austrian Corps out of harms way once General Prior was to unleash his might.
Yay's.

Should the situation deteriorate during the next days Stauning would be willing to consider the forming of a National Unity Government.
Yay's – though the Social Liberals looked sour.

[575]

Feb 11, 2023 9:36:44 GMT 575 said:

Feb 10, 2023 22:50:54 GMT stevep said:

  That is going to be one problem.  Until the UT political leadership makes a decision about war with the assorted German powers can the military do anything to support their down time brethren?

At the moment no - unless themselve attacked but the Prussian troops are only on the move up from Holstein to Eckernförde on the Slesvig east coast where their passage was observable.

Issue will soon be attended to.

Just to do a sum up - the Princess Alexandra daughter of King Christian 9 of Denmark who ruled 1864 had been married 1863 to Albert Edward Prince of Wales - she remained an ardent Partisan of the Danish cause much to the regret of her Mother in Law!

Prince Christian Vilhelm son of King Christian 9 of Denmark had become King of the Greeks 1863 as George 1. at 17! He will force through a new constitution this year 1864.

Crownprince Frederik (later 8.) had been at Schleswig 1863 but had been barred from going with his Regiment to Dannevirke. He was later allowed to join 4. Division Staff in Jutland during 1864.

Princess Dagmar was about to be married to the future Tsar.

Princess Thyre would be married to the pretender to Hanover the Duke of Cumberland Ernst August 1878.

The youngest Prince Valdemar had only been born 1858.

Their father Christian 9 had come in from the right to the throne of Denmark following Great Powers intervention so other possible pretenders would live a troubled life.

[575]

Copenhagen 9 April 1940
List of legates in Denmark (I couldn't find the Diplomatic List of 1940 but assumed the countries that Denmark send Ministers to would also have representation in Denmark – if anybody is able to help out it would be much appreciated – and this post be adjusted): Kingdom of Belgium, British Empire Minister C.H. Smith, Kingdom of Bulgaria, Republic of Estonia Charge d'Affairs August Koern, Republic of Finland Envoy Paavo Pajula, Republic of France, Kingdom of Italy, Republic of Lithuania, Kingdom of the Netherlands, Kingdom of Norway Minister August Esmarch, Republic of Poland, Kingdom of Romania, Soviet Union (due to Stalins purges the Legate N.S. Tikhmenev had been recalled November 1937 and probably not replaced at least the Copenhagen was vacant 1 January 1939), Kingdom of Sweden Minister Carl Hamilton, German Reich Minister Cecil v. Renthe-Fink, USA Minister Ray Atherton, Republic of Mexico, Republic of Argentina, Republic of Brazil, Kingdom of Egypt, Empire of Japan, Republic of China, Republic of Turkey, Kingdom of Thailand Royal Consulate-General in the Kingdom of Denmark Minister Plenipotentiary Phra Manu-vejvimolnat (Pien Sumawongsa).
A number of other countries didn't have a Danish Legation but might have had a Legation/Consulate General at Copenhagen. These comprise Luxembourg, Kingdom of Bulgaria, Kingdom of Greece, Kingdom of Yugoslavia, Republic of Latvia, Republic of Portugal, Republic of Switzerland, Republic of Spain, Kingdom of Hungary, Republic of Uruguay, Republic of Austria, Persia, Republic of Costa Rica, Republic of Guatemala, Republic of Panama, Republic of El Salvador, Republic of Colombia, Republic of Venezuela, Republic of Chile, Republic of Peru.

The Legations of course split into an Allied Camp of Britain, France, Poland against the opposition Germany and Soviet Union though this suffered from being leaderless. Pro Germany would be Hungary.
Italy and to some extend Spain would be in some kind of orbit of Germany.
Estonia, Lativia and Lithuania all eyeing Britain and weary of Soviet Union but 1864 being part of Russia.

The Nordics were much pro-Danish – Finland (part of Russia), Norway (not a sovereign nation 1864 but in Personal Union with Sweden) and Sweden (Iceland still in Personal Union with the Kingdom of Denmark).
Belgium, Bulgaria, Greece, Yugoslavia, Luxembourg, Monaco, Netherlands, Portugal, Romania, Switzerland, USA, Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, Egypt, Japan, China, Turkey belonged to the neutrals.

Besides the already mentioned states not existing in 1864 by that time Austria(part of Nazi-Germany), Hungary and parts of Romania, Czechoslovakia, Poland and Yugoslavia belonged to the Austrian Empire.

Bulgaria was barely a state 1864 while Romania and Greece were sovereign such though with a huge Ottoman Empire looming on the borders whose descendant was Turkey which also incorporated Egypt.

Italy was still in its formative state by 1864.

The Secession of Belgium (and Luxembourg) from the Netherlands had only been reconized by treaty 1839.

Thus the various Legates grouped initially along the 1940 alliances primarily and then the situation of 1864 began being debated.
The Swedish and Norwegians soon reached agreement on the Swedish Minister to Copenhagen representing both at Stockholm as soon as possible.
Legates of states originating from the former Russian Empire to some extend argued to support their host as Denmark usually had been on good relations with that power – the Soviet Consul of course opposed this idea.

Those of the former Ottoman Empire lands was in a kind of despair but found consolence in being able to relate the coming history of their nations shedding the Ottoman rule.

The German Minister v. Renthe-Fink a Prussian by birth and a Nazi even if a latecomer (1939) but also belonging to the aristocracy though the family had been fairly recently elevated (1820) who had the ultimatum to deliver to the Danish Government once Nazi forces would invade was somewhat off kilter; however he soon made up his mind of representing Prussia. He was wanting to go to Prussia to give council to v. Bismarck and the King William I. Given his previous service and later thoughts about the running of occupied Europe he would probably fit nicely into Bismarck's entourage.
In his entourage at the Embassy was the Maritime Attache G. F. Duckwitz also a member of the Nazi Party but who prior to the German roundup of Danish Jews tipped off the Danish Socialdemocratic leaders on the instigation by Werner Best. (possibly a semifictive narrative but the Danes were tipped off prior to the roundup and some 95% of the Jews were shipped to Sweden which agreed to let them in following Danish pressure – history as always wrought with inconsistencies)

The US and Japanese Ministers were both interested in obtaining Danish weaponry for their nations – the US for the Union troops the Japanese to counter the Russians in the Far East once that power would show up there and eventually or prior take on China.

Thus the various Legations had much differing interests though some the Russian and Ottoman controlled ones but also the Austrian had an interest in cooperating each Minister according to 1940's position and perception though from a much different point than 1864 and some like Yugoslavia had two of the 1864 powers to consider.

China had had some very recent experiences of Japanese adventurism and its Minister very much wanted Danish weaponry too to be able to fend off should it happen again. The more immediate need however might be Danish shipbuilding both for Merchanmen but also Warships to try build a basis for a Chinese tradition.

Edit: 290423 identified Thai Consular-General

Edit: 060723 some countries added

[lordroel]

Feb 19, 2023 7:54:27 GMT 575 said:

Copenhagen 9 April 1940
List of legates in Denmark (I couldn't find the Diplomatic List of 1940 but assumed the countries that Denmark send Ministers to would also have representation in Denmark – if anybody is able to help out it would be much appreciated – and this post be adjusted): Kingdom of Belgium, British Empire Minister C.H. Smith, Kingdom of Bulgaria, Republic of Estonia Charge d'Affairs August Koern, Republic of Finland, Republic of France, Kingdom of Greece, Kingdom of Italy, Kingdom of Yugoslavia, Republic of Latvia, Republic of Lithuania, Principality of Luxembourg, Principality of Monaco, Kingdom of the Netherlands, Kingdom of Norway Minister August Esmarch, Republic of Poland, Republic of Portugal, Kingdom of Romania, Republic of Switzerland, Soviet Union (due to Stalins purges the Legate N.S. Tikhmenev had been recalled November 1937 and probably not replaced at least the Copenhagen was vacant 1 January 1939), Republic of Spain, Kingdom of Sweden, German Reich Minister Cecil v. Renthe-Fink, Kingdom of Hungary, USA Minister Ray Atherton, Republic of Mexico, Republic of Argentina, Republic of Brazil, Kingdom of Egypt, Empire of Japan, Republic of China, Republic of Turkey. A number of other countries didn't have a Danish Legation but might have had a Legation at Copenhagen.

So far i only found this one, but will keep looking:

Finish Envoy to Copenhagen: Paavo Pajula

[575]

Feb 19, 2023 8:09:04 GMT lordroel said:

Feb 19, 2023 7:54:27 GMT 575 said:

Copenhagen 9 April 1940
List of legates in Denmark (I couldn't find the Diplomatic List of 1940 but assumed the countries that Denmark send Ministers to would also have representation in Denmark – if anybody is able to help out it would be much appreciated – and this post be adjusted): Kingdom of Belgium, British Empire Minister C.H. Smith, Kingdom of Bulgaria, Republic of Estonia Charge d'Affairs August Koern, Republic of Finland, Republic of France, Kingdom of Greece, Kingdom of Italy, Kingdom of Yugoslavia, Republic of Latvia, Republic of Lithuania, Principality of Luxembourg, Principality of Monaco, Kingdom of the Netherlands, Kingdom of Norway Minister August Esmarch, Republic of Poland, Republic of Portugal, Kingdom of Romania, Republic of Switzerland, Soviet Union (due to Stalins purges the Legate N.S. Tikhmenev had been recalled November 1937 and probably not replaced at least the Copenhagen was vacant 1 January 1939), Republic of Spain, Kingdom of Sweden, German Reich Minister Cecil v. Renthe-Fink, Kingdom of Hungary, USA Minister Ray Atherton, Republic of Mexico, Republic of Argentina, Republic of Brazil, Kingdom of Egypt, Empire of Japan, Republic of China, Republic of Turkey. A number of other countries didn't have a Danish Legation but might have had a Legation at Copenhagen.

So far i only found this one, but will keep looking:

Finish Envoy to Copenhagen: Paavo Pajula

Cheers; spent ½ hour last night trying to find that.

[lordroel]

Feb 19, 2023 8:13:16 GMT 575 said:

Feb 19, 2023 8:09:04 GMT lordroel said:

So far i only found this one, but will keep looking:

Finish Envoy to Copenhagen: Paavo Pajula

Cheers; spent ½ hour last night trying to find that.

Well i will try to find more but some are not listen as well as others.

[575]

Seems to have been some gung-ho chap; may find use for his patriotism later in the TL - You guessed right something about Russia just don't know what now. Stuff tends to come up..

[lordroel]

Feb 19, 2023 7:54:27 GMT 575 said:

Copenhagen 9 April 1940


The US and Japanese Ministers were both interested in obtaining Danish weaponry for their nations – the US for the Union troops the Japanese to counter the Russians in the Far East once that power would show up there and eventually or prior take on China.

I hope the 1940 Danish Government keep a close eye out that nothing happens at DISA (company), they do not want to see some Madsen machine gun, Schouboe Automatic Pistol among other ending up traveling to the other side of the world.