Denmark of 9 April 1940 ISOT to 1 February 1864.

[lordroel]

Feb 21, 2023 17:50:20 GMT 575 said:

Its all the elements of the Groups work muddled together - written story - plaques do display events and so on.

If You look up this Chakoten Danish War Games Group You will find most of the information in English. Also look up the author Per Finsted - he did compile quite a lot in English on the Danish Army.

Thanks for the find.

[575]

Here's the film of the Workgroup:

about the making of the one You did find.

[lordroel]

Feb 21, 2023 18:08:03 GMT 575 said:

Here's the film of the Workgroup:

about the making of the one You did find.

Well in 60 years from 1864 they will make a documentary of the Second Schleswig War and how it change the face of Europe.

[575]

Back to the story:

To Stockholm 10 April 1940/ 2 February 1864
The Swedish Envoy to Copenhagen Carl Hamilton had embarked on a travel to Stockholm to get in touch with Government and King Carl 15. to inform of this new Denmark on the doorstep. There were still those in Sweden of 1864 hoping to collect the spoils once Denmark had been defeated by the Germans – annex the Danish Isles when Prussia decided to annex Jutland. That Goverment had to expect a vigorous Denmark supporting the Norwegian aspirations for self-determination, leaving the Union and becoming an independent Nation.
He had a lot to inform of the days to come of the World as such but that might not even turn out as he had learned or experienced himself even though he had been able to talk Knud Lybye the CEO of DDL – Danish Airlines into his chartering a Fokker F VII with extra fuel for the return flight.
Only his confidential cache of documents and a large stack of Danish Newspapers of 10 April would accompagny himself – he had fended off the Norwegian Minister to Copenhagen from joining saying it would be too much of an experience to the Swedish Government and King.
At least it wouldn't be an easy experience and nor would P. Munch's in Frankfurt a. M. though he would have the large amphibious Aircraft to prove his words.
The Hamiltons of Carl's line had served the Kings of Sweden since 1654 and Hugo Adolf Hamilton his Great-Grandfather and his sons served King Carl 15. Carl hoped his lineage and its service to the King would aid his effort of speaking on behalf of Denmark's. He also knew that he couldn't rely on the aid of his own lineage living in a World preceding his by 66 years who knew nothing of their descendants this removed.

Hamilton looked out the window down at mostly snowcovered Sweden.
The flight took the better part of 5 hours and then the pilot cirkled for some time before setting the aircraft down on a flat piece of land – it was.
The Pilots experience in landing on a snowcovered surface pulled them through now it was the moment of the Swedish Diplomat who with his Secretary and a couple of big guys began walking towards the capital of Sweden.

(Being party to securing communications with the various parts of the country as well as abroad DDL had permission to fly; it would also when necessary support relief work within the country such as for isolated islands during Winter)

[lordroel]

Feb 21, 2023 19:01:28 GMT 575 said:

Back to the story:

To Stockholm 10 April 1940/ 2 February 1864
The Swedish Envoy to Copenhagen Carl Hamilton had embarked on a travel to Stockholm to get in touch with Government and King Carl 15. to inform of this new Denmark on the doorstep. There were still those in Sweden of 1864 hoping to collect the spoils once Denmark had been defeated by the Germans – annex the Danish Isles when Prussia decided to annex Jutland. That Goverment had to expect a vigorous Denmark supporting the Norwegian aspirations for self-determination, leaving the Union and becoming an independent Nation.
He had a lot to inform of the days to come of the World as such but that might not even turn out as he had learned or experienced himself even though he had been able to talk Knud Lybye the CEO of DDL – Danish Airlines into his chartering a Fokker F VII with extra fuel for the return flight.
Only his confidential cache of documents and a large stack of Danish Newspapers of 10 April would accompagny himself – he had fended off the Norwegian Minister to Copenhagen from joining saying it would be too much of an experience to the Swedish Government and King.
At least it wouldn't be an easy experience and nor would P. Munch's in Frankfurt a. M. though he would have the large amphibious Aircraft to prove his words.
The Hamiltons of Carl's line had served the Kings of Sweden since 1654 and Hugo Adolf Hamilton his Great-Grandfather and his sons served King Carl 15. Carl hoped his lineage and its service to the King would aid his effort of speaking on behalf of Denmark's. He also knew that he couldn't rely on the aid of his own lineage living in a World preceding his by 66 years who knew nothing of their descendants this removed.

Hamilton looked out the window down at mostly snowcovered Sweden.
The flight took the better part of 5 hours and then the pilot cirkled for some time before setting the aircraft down on a flat piece of land – it was.
The Pilots experience in landing on a snowcovered surface pulled them through now it was the moment of the Swedish Diplomat who with his Secretary and a couple of big guys began walking towards the capital of Sweden.

(Being party to securing communications with the various parts of the country as well as abroad DDL had permission to fly; it would also when necessary support relief work within the country such as for isolated islands during Winter)

So who is going to explain to the Danish 1864 ambassador to Sweden what is going on.

[575]

Feb 21, 2023 19:31:44 GMT lordroel said:

Feb 21, 2023 19:01:28 GMT 575 said:

Back to the story:

To Stockholm 10 April 1940/ 2 February 1864
The Swedish Envoy to Copenhagen Carl Hamilton had embarked on a travel to Stockholm to get in touch with Government and King Carl 15. to inform of this new Denmark on the doorstep. There were still those in Sweden of 1864 hoping to collect the spoils once Denmark had been defeated by the Germans – annex the Danish Isles when Prussia decided to annex Jutland. That Goverment had to expect a vigorous Denmark supporting the Norwegian aspirations for self-determination, leaving the Union and becoming an independent Nation.
He had a lot to inform of the days to come of the World as such but that might not even turn out as he had learned or experienced himself even though he had been able to talk Knud Lybye the CEO of DDL – Danish Airlines into his chartering a Fokker F VII with extra fuel for the return flight.
Only his confidential cache of documents and a large stack of Danish Newspapers of 10 April would accompagny himself – he had fended off the Norwegian Minister to Copenhagen from joining saying it would be too much of an experience to the Swedish Government and King.
At least it wouldn't be an easy experience and nor would P. Munch's in Frankfurt a. M. though he would have the large amphibious Aircraft to prove his words.
The Hamiltons of Carl's line had served the Kings of Sweden since 1654 and Hugo Adolf Hamilton his Great-Grandfather and his sons served King Carl 15. Carl hoped his lineage and its service to the King would aid his effort of speaking on behalf of Denmark's. He also knew that he couldn't rely on the aid of his own lineage living in a World preceding his by 66 years who knew nothing of their descendants this removed.

Hamilton looked out the window down at mostly snowcovered Sweden.
The flight took the better part of 5 hours and then the pilot cirkled for some time before setting the aircraft down on a flat piece of land – it was.
The Pilots experience in landing on a snowcovered surface pulled them through now it was the moment of the Swedish Diplomat who with his Secretary and a couple of big guys began walking towards the capital of Sweden.

(Being party to securing communications with the various parts of the country as well as abroad DDL had permission to fly; it would also when necessary support relief work within the country such as for isolated islands during Winter)

So who is going to explain to the Danish 1864 ambassador to Sweden what is going on.

Carl Hamilton of course! And mightily confused that Man will be

[lordroel]

Feb 21, 2023 19:38:11 GMT 575 said:

Feb 21, 2023 19:31:44 GMT lordroel said:

So who is going to explain to the Danish 1864 ambassador to Sweden what is going on.

Carl Hamilton of course! And mightily confused that Man will be

So will he be replaced, but the other hand the 1864 ambassador will have all the contacts that the 1940 delegation could find useful.

[575]

Feb 21, 2023 19:43:40 GMT lordroel said:

Feb 21, 2023 19:38:11 GMT 575 said:

Carl Hamilton of course! And mightily confused that Man will be

So will he be replaced, but the other hand the 1864 ambassador will have all the contacts that the 1940 delegation could find useful.

Well the delegation is purely a Swedish 1940 one but of course they have to get in contact with the Danish Minister to Stockholm - OTOH the land-sealine telegraph between Denmark and Sweden have been laid but I'll get back to that soon. As I will about happenings in Stockholm - this is just a teaser.

Really there is too much to write and too many balls to keep in the air all the time - with a little patience we'll get through.

The Danes have much to much on their hands at the moment to shift Ministers.

[575]

Frankfurt a. M. 2 February 1864
Arriving at Frankfurt a. M. word soon spread of the huge flying machine that had descended upon the Main River and let off passengers. P. Munch had sought out the Confederation Imperial Diet offices at Palais Thurn und Tarxis to talk to the Austrian representative Aloys von Kühbeck for starters as he presided over the Diet and then for the other representatives. P. Munch also wanted to assure his extraterritorial status during his stay at the Imperial Diet.
First however he wanted to address the Diet for allowance to speak on behalf of the Danish King Duke of Schleswig and Holstein as well as Lauenburg at its coming weekly session.
P. Munch soon found that his lack of title were sufficiently counter balanced by his being a Doctor of History.
von Kühbeck wasn't adverse to the representative of the Danish King as Duke of Schleswig-Holstein and Lauenburg Duchies as it would sting Prussia.
At their initial meeting P. Munch was very cautious about German history from 1864 to 1940 and kept to talking in not too difficult riddles and rewarding correct answers with a ”You said so my Lord”. At first von Kühbeck was a little startlet at his but soon he looked shrewdly at P. Munch and laughed at times accompanyed by an ”Aha!” or ”I see!”

P. Munch was able to convey his intentions of an independent Denmark with the border of 1940 though von Kühbeck also indirectly explained that Austria might sympathise with the Danish position; at the moment it would be up to the Armies in the field however he was willing to allow P. Munch access in his role as representative of the Duke of Schleswig-Holstein and Lauenburg to plead the Danish stance at the next weekly session though Prussia might well attempt to bar him entry – he expected though P. Munch to use the time available to prepare for that occasion.

Edit: change of landing to the Main River which flow through the city.

[stevep]

Feb 24, 2023 19:13:12 GMT 575 said:

Frankfurt a. M. 2 February 1864
Arriving at Frankfurt a. M. word soon spread of the huge flying machine that had descended upon the Main River and let off passengers. P. Munch had sought out the Confederation Imperial Diet offices at Palais Thurn und Tarxis to talk to the Austrian representative Aloys von Kühbeck for starters as he presided over the Diet and then for the other representatives. P. Munch also wanted to assure his extraterritorial status during his stay at the Imperial Diet.
First however he wanted to address the Diet for allowance to speak on behalf of the Danish King Duke of Schleswig and Holstein as well as Lauenburg at its coming weekly session.
P. Munch soon found that his lack of title were sufficiently counter balanced by his being a Doctor of History.
von Kühbeck wasn't adverse to the representative of the Danish King as Duke of Schleswig-Holstein and Lauenburg Duchies as it would sting Prussia.
At their initial meeting P. Munch was very cautious about German history from 1864 to 1940 and kept to talking in not too difficult riddles and rewarding correct answers with a ”You said so my Lord”. At first von Kühbeck was a little startlet at his but soon he looked shrewdly at P. Munch and laughed at times accompanyed by an ”Aha!” or ”I see!”

P. Munch was able to convey his intentions of an independent Denmark with the border of 1940 though von Kühbeck also indirectly explained that Austria might sympathise with the Danish position; at the moment it would be up to the Armies in the field however he was willing to allow P. Munch access in his role as representative of the Duke of Schleswig-Holstein and Lauenburg to plead the Danish stance at the next weekly session though Prussia might well attempt to bar him entry – he expected though P. Munch to use the time available to prepare for that occasion.

Edit: change of landing to the Main River which flow through the city.

  No of course he didn't inform the Austrian representative that Prussia is going to attack and defeat them in a few years and drive them from any influence inside 'Germany'.   I think the cat is definitely among the pigeons.  Of course von Kühbeck or his superiors might suspect that Munch is deliberately spreading rumours to divide their opponents and to a degree that' true.  It just so happens that those rumours are - at least OTL - accurate and I suspect the Danish army will quickly be showing that they don't actually need such divisions to defend their country.

[575]

Copenhagen 10 April 1940/2 February 1864 9AM
General Prior: ”Primeminister thank you for calling up the Covering Force, this will make me able to fill out the ranks of the active Army Battalions though still only half the total force though later the Reserves to fill those may be called upon. The Artillery and Airtroops will be the big difference. Am I allowed to move the troops into position on the border?”

Stauning: ”You are. Have the liaison Officers to the 1864 Army reported to You so we are awere of its whereabouts – I don't want our Artillery or Aircraft to make mistakes – not too many that is I am somewhat familiar with Great War use of both. Not professionally of course.”

General Prior: ”I have been informed that General de Meza is rather happy with a secure back; the positions of the 1864 Army is as we know them from the documents. I will have the Liaison Officers fitted out with radio even though the telegraph is working de Meza may overtax it; his Staff have a lot of correspondence with 2. General Command at Flensburg. We must find some way of channelling supplies south – those troops will need hot meals and warm clothing. They had very little of both. A man fights better on a full stomach even if some claim otherwise; at least they will work better and keep up spirits. Am I allowed to order Air reconnainsance over Slesvig?”

Stauning: ”You are and so are the Navy – Vice-Admiral You do still have your Aircraft in Jutland and Fyn right? It would be nice to know if the Prussians would take to the sea.”

Vice-Admiral Rechnitzer: ”Primeminister we do still have them at the Jutland and Fyn Stations also the 1. Air Flotilla is gearing up for reconnaisance further south and east into the Baltic. I think of moving the Jutland Aircraft from Frederikshavn in the North to Esbjerg on the North Sea coast, we had some based there during last year and one of the ships there used to be a depotship so we will easily build up that to service the Aircraft but also with a look to the Wadden See isles – Lieutenant Hammer and his Second, Ensign Holbøll, held the area throughout the conflict with mainly local means some 8 rowing Gunboats and a Schooner but also a few ships supplied from Jutland. We could do a little better this time. Aircraft in area would certainly help out and make Hammer able to shift forces as needed.”

Stauning: ”Vice-Admiral You have my best wishes for the successfull outcome of Your operations.”

Stauning: ”General when will the Prussians open fire at Mysunde?”

General Prior: ”1030 AM the Prussian should arrive at Langsø just south of the Cable-Ferry at Mysunde and then the skirmish begin.”

Stauning: ”Do You have anything in the vicinity to enter battle.”

General Prior: ”As we haven't entered Schleswig yet our sole option is Aircraft though the weather was foggy that day obscuring Artillery observation so I doubt it will be good flying weather but I have sceduled Reconnaisance flights. An early flight did find the Prussians moving north from Eckernförde and their movement have also been confirmed by our ships in Eckernförde Fiord. The most mobile unit in area is the Anti-Tank Engineers Regiment which have been concentrated at Barracks in Töndern and which would need to travel some 70 km's to get to Mysunde.”

Stauning: ”I see. May I remind You we need knowledge of German attack on our Forces 1864 or 1940 to take action.”

General Prior: ”Of course Primeminister thats why I have sent Liaison Officers to Mysunde to report such events and to be able to guide incoming reinforcements of our troops in Southern Jutland.”

Stauning: ”Thank you General the information from Mysunde will be acted upon politically so do forward such as soon as possible to me; Vice-Admiral any interference from Your ships?”

Vice-Admiral Rechnitzer: ”As no hostile activity was carried out against 1864 or 1940 forces no interference though the ships have reported the activity and the size of the troops which seems to be a Division.”

General Prior: ”6. Prussian Infantry Division Commanded by General v. Manstein with the rest of the 1. Corps on its tail.”

[lordroel]

Feb 25, 2023 17:55:36 GMT 575 said:

General Prior: ”6. Prussian Infantry Division Commanded by General v. Manstein with the rest of the 1. Corps on its tail.”

First good update, second, never knew the adoptive grandfather of Erich von Manstein was a general.

[575]

Feb 25, 2023 18:00:28 GMT lordroel said:

Feb 25, 2023 17:55:36 GMT 575 said:

General Prior: ”6. Prussian Infantry Division Commanded by General v. Manstein with the rest of the 1. Corps on its tail.”

First good update, second, never knew the adoptive grandfather of Erich von Manstein was a general.

Thanks I do my best - well History is such a strange World to enter.

[575]

A note on the Danish Officers Corps of 1940 - post occupation the Army Officers insisted the Minister of Defence Alsing-Andersen explicitly announced the capitulation being a Political Order - nothing to do with the Military; which the MoD eventually did!

The Senior Navy Officers a month post occupation forced the Navy Commander to resign.

[lordroel]

Feb 25, 2023 17:55:36 GMT 575 said:

Copenhagen 10 April 1940/2 February 1864 9AM
General Prior: ”Primeminister thank you for calling up the Covering Force, this will make me able to fill out the ranks of the active Army Battalions though still only half the total force though later the Reserves to fill those may be called upon. The Artillery and Airtroops will be the big difference. Am I allowed to move the troops into position on the border?”

Stauning: ”You are. Have the liaison Officers to the 1864 Army reported to You so we are awere of its whereabouts – I don't want our Artillery or Aircraft to make mistakes – not too many that is I am somewhat familiar with Great War use of both. Not professionally of course.”

General Prior: ”I have been informed that General de Meza is rather happy with a secure back; the positions of the 1864 Army is as we know them from the documents. I will have the Liaison Officers fitted out with radio even though the telegraph is working de Meza may overtax it; his Staff have a lot of correspondence with 2. General Command at Flensburg. We must find some way of channelling supplies south – those troops will need hot meals and warm clothing. They had very little of both. A man fights better on a full stomach even if some claim otherwise; at least they will work better and keep up spirits. Am I allowed to order Air reconnainsance over Slesvig?”

Stauning: ”You are and so are the Navy – Vice-Admiral You do still have your Aircraft in Jutland and Fyn right? It would be nice to know if the Prussians would take to the sea.”

Vice-Admiral Rechnitzer: ”Primeminister we do still have them at the Jutland and Fyn Stations also the 1. Air Flotilla is gearing up for reconnaisance further south and east into the Baltic. I think of moving the Jutland Aircraft from Frederikshavn in the North to Esbjerg on the North Sea coast, we had some based there during last year and one of the ships there used to be a depotship so we will easily build up that to service the Aircraft but also with a look to the Wadden See isles – Lieutenant Hammer and his Second, Ensign Holbøll, held the area throughout the conflict with mainly local means some 8 rowing Gunboats and a Schooner but also a few ships supplied from Jutland. We could do a little better this time. Aircraft in area would certainly help out and make Hammer able to shift forces as needed.”

Stauning: ”Vice-Admiral You have my best wishes for the successfull outcome of Your operations.”

Stauning: ”General when will the Prussians open fire at Mysunde?”

General Prior: ”1030 AM the Prussian should arrive at Langsø just south of the Cable-Ferry at Mysunde and then the skirmish begin.”

Stauning: ”Do You have anything in the vicinity to enter battle.”

General Prior: ”As we haven't entered Schleswig yet our sole option is Aircraft though the weather was foggy that day obscuring Artillery observation so I doubt it will be good flying weather but I have sceduled Reconnaisance flights. An early flight did find the Prussians moving north from Eckernförde and their movement have also been confirmed by our ships in Eckernförde Fiord. The most mobile unit in area is the Anti-Tank Engineers Regiment which have been concentrated at Barracks in Töndern and which would need to travel some 70 km's to get to Mysunde.”

Stauning: ”I see. May I remind You we need knowledge of German attack on our Forces 1864 or 1940 to take action.”

General Prior: ”Of course Primeminister thats why I have sent Liaison Officers to Mysunde to report such events and to be able to guide incoming reinforcements of our troops in Southern Jutland.”

Stauning: ”Thank you General the information from Mysunde will be acted upon politically so do forward such as soon as possible to me; Vice-Admiral any interference from Your ships?”

Vice-Admiral Rechnitzer: ”As no hostile activity was carried out against 1864 or 1940 forces no interference though the ships have reported the activity and the size of the troops which seems to be a Division.”

General Prior: ”6. Prussian Infantry Division Commanded by General v. Manstein with the rest of the 1. Corps on its tail.”

So how much can the trains move into 1864 Schleswig–Holstein from 1940 Denmark, it helps troop movement, if there

Looking at the map of the 1932 rain lines they stop at the 1940 border.