What if the Philippine Republic was ISOT'ed from July 4th 1954 to July 4th 1934?

[spiegel]

Jun 23, 2023 4:35:56 GMT gillan1220 said:

Jun 23, 2023 3:43:00 GMT spiegel said:

And their Small Arms and Weaponry hope they had M14 Battle Rifles before M16's come to play in 60s

The small arms would be WWII surplus and possibly hundreds of M14s. The M16 would only be issued to the AFP in 1966.

so i can imagine when Dec 7 1941 pearl harbor got attacked by the IJN let's see if PAF F86 Sabres fighting Zeroes in a good ol gun dogfights.

[gillan1220]

Jun 23, 2023 5:48:14 GMT spiegel said:

Jun 23, 2023 4:35:56 GMT gillan1220 said:

The small arms would be WWII surplus and possibly hundreds of M14s. The M16 would only be issued to the AFP in 1966.

so i can imagine when Dec 7 1941 pearl harbor got attacked by the IJN let's see if PAF F86 Sabres fighting Zeroes in a good ol gun dogfights.

The F-86 Sabers of the PAF aren't there yet. The first batch of 50 fighters only arrived IOTL 1957. In 1954, the P-51 Mustangs are still the main fighter plane platform of the PAF.

[spiegel]

Jun 23, 2023 6:45:45 GMT gillan1220 said:

Jun 23, 2023 5:48:14 GMT spiegel said:

so i can imagine when Dec 7 1941 pearl harbor got attacked by the IJN let's see if PAF F86 Sabres fighting Zeroes in a good ol gun dogfights.

The F-86 Sabers of the PAF aren't there yet. The first batch of 50 fighters only arrived IOTL 1957. In 1954, the P-51 Mustangs are still the main fighter plane platform of the PAF.

oh sorry the Zeros would just got one sided by Mustangs while the 1940 US would sent someone to check the PAF Mustang Fighters.

[gillan1220]

Jun 23, 2023 6:47:36 GMT spiegel said:

Jun 23, 2023 6:45:45 GMT gillan1220 said:

The F-86 Sabers of the PAF aren't there yet. The first batch of 50 fighters only arrived IOTL 1957. In 1954, the P-51 Mustangs are still the main fighter plane platform of the PAF.

oh sorry the Zeros would just got one sided by Mustangs while the 1940 US would sent someone to check the PAF Mustang Fighters.

Yes, the P-51s would definitely go in toe with the Zeroes. The DT 1934 U.S. would definitely want to see one of those PAF Mustangs along with the 1954 USAF jets at Clark Air Base that were left behind.

[spiegel]

Jun 23, 2023 6:49:15 GMT gillan1220 said:

Jun 23, 2023 6:47:36 GMT spiegel said:

oh sorry the Zeros would just got one sided by Mustangs while the 1940 US would sent someone to check the PAF Mustang Fighters.

Yes, the P-51s would definitely go in toe with the Zeroes. The DT 1934 U.S. would definitely want to see one of those PAF Mustangs along with the 1954 USAF jets at Clark Air Base that were left behind.

that will been a gamechanger to the 1934 US for their planes of the USAAF meanwhile the British been seeing those too.

[575]

Jun 23, 2023 6:49:15 GMT gillan1220 said:

Jun 23, 2023 6:47:36 GMT spiegel said:

oh sorry the Zeros would just got one sided by Mustangs while the 1940 US would sent someone to check the PAF Mustang Fighters.

Yes, the P-51s would definitely go in toe with the Zeroes. The DT 1934 U.S. would definitely want to see one of those PAF Mustangs along with the 1954 USAF jets at Clark Air Base that were left behind.

And the British would like to get their new US build fighter aircraft capable of escorting Bombers to Berlin.

[gillan1220]

Jun 23, 2023 6:53:04 GMT spiegel said:

that will been a gamechanger to the 1934 US for their planes of the USAAF meanwhile the British been seeing those too.

The British probably want to inspect the P-51 and American F-86s.

Jun 23, 2023 6:58:42 GMT 575 said:

And the British would like to get their new US build fighter aircraft capable of escorting Bombers to Berlin.

Not sure if there are any bombers at Clark at this period. The B-17s were long gone by 1954 and the Philippines did not permit any U.S. long-range bomber to fly above Philippine airspace or land in Philippine soil. What the DT British could do is study the components of the F-86 and incorporate it into their own aircrafts like the Spitfire, Hurricane, and Lancaster bombers.

[spiegel]

Jun 23, 2023 7:01:29 GMT gillan1220 said:

Jun 23, 2023 6:53:04 GMT spiegel said:

that will been a gamechanger to the 1934 US for their planes of the USAAF meanwhile the British been seeing those too.

The British probably want to inspect the P-51 and American F-86s.

Jun 23, 2023 6:58:42 GMT 575 said:

And the British would like to get their new US build fighter aircraft capable of escorting Bombers to Berlin.

Not sure if there are any bombers at Clark at this period. The B-17s were long gone by 1954 and the Philippines did not permit any U.S. long-range bomber to fly above Philippine airspace or land in Philippine soil.

all of that tech by USAF and PAF had enemy spies Nazis will been around to get their hands of those tech Japanese Spies been do the same Soviets they wanted those toys too.

[575]

Jun 23, 2023 7:01:29 GMT gillan1220 said:

Jun 23, 2023 6:53:04 GMT spiegel said:

that will been a gamechanger to the 1934 US for their planes of the USAAF meanwhile the British been seeing those too.

The British probably want to inspect the P-51 and American F-86s.

Jun 23, 2023 6:58:42 GMT 575 said:

And the British would like to get their new US build fighter aircraft capable of escorting Bombers to Berlin.

Not sure if there are any bombers at Clark at this period. The B-17s were long gone by 1954 and the Philippines did not permit any U.S. long-range bomber to fly above Philippine airspace or land in Philippine soil. What the DT British could do is study the components of the F-86 and incorporate it into their own aircrafts like the Spitfire, Hurricane, and Lancaster bombers.

The P-51 was originally an answer to a British call for a new Fighter - that was my cue.

The British have the Bombers themselves or will design and build them.

Frank Whittle having a study tour of the F-86 may do wonders for his developments.

[gillan1220]

Jun 23, 2023 7:02:50 GMT spiegel said:

all of that tech by USAF and PAF had enemy spies Nazis will been around to get their hands of those tech Japanese Spies been do the same Soviets they wanted those toys too.

There were no Nazi spies in the Philippines in 1934 and definitely not in the uptime 1954.

Jun 23, 2023 7:04:08 GMT 575 said:

The P-51 was originally an answer to a British call for a new Fighter - that was my cue.

The British have the Bombers themselves or will design and build them.

Frank Whittle having a study tour of the F-86 may do wonders for his developments.

Very well, the British may incorporate their findings on the uptime American technology leftover in the Philippines to develop the RAF and the FAA. This might cause an earlier arms race in Europe.

[spiegel]

Jun 23, 2023 7:29:05 GMT gillan1220 said:

Jun 23, 2023 7:02:50 GMT spiegel said:

all of that tech by USAF and PAF had enemy spies Nazis will been around to get their hands of those tech Japanese Spies been do the same Soviets they wanted those toys too.

There were no Nazi spies in the Philippines in 1934 and definitely not in the uptime 1954.

Jun 23, 2023 7:04:08 GMT 575 said:

The P-51 was originally an answer to a British call for a new Fighter - that was my cue.

The British have the Bombers themselves or will design and build them.

Frank Whittle having a study tour of the F-86 may do wonders for his developments.

Very well, the British may incorporate their findings on the uptime American technology leftover in the Philippines to develop the RAF and the FAA. This might cause an earlier arms race in Europe.

well ok let's see the RAF and FAA been prepped those new toys to make the Germans got oh crap they got cool toys than ours.

[gillan1220]

Jun 23, 2023 9:49:35 GMT spiegel said:

Jun 23, 2023 7:29:05 GMT gillan1220 said:

There were no Nazi spies in the Philippines in 1934 and definitely not in the uptime 1954.
Very well, the British may incorporate their findings on the uptime American technology leftover in the Philippines to develop the RAF and the FAA. This might cause an earlier arms race in Europe.

well ok let's see the RAF and FAA been prepped those new toys to make the Germans got oh crap they got cool toys than ours.

The European arms of the late 1930s would probably cause Germany's economy to collapse. Hitler's obsession with wonder weapons proved to be an economic drain in the long term.

[lordroel]

Jun 23, 2023 13:24:13 GMT gillan1220 said:

Jun 23, 2023 9:49:35 GMT spiegel said:

well ok let's see the RAF and FAA been prepped those new toys to make the Germans got oh crap they got cool toys than ours.

The European arms of the late 1930s would probably cause Germany's economy to collapse. Hitler's obsession with wonder weapons proved to be an economic drain in the long term.

So question, will the United States of the 1930s except the total Independence of the Philippines, in their eyes i would think, the Philippines is still under their control regardless if it is 10 years older.

[gillan1220]

Jun 23, 2023 13:26:21 GMT lordroel said:

Jun 23, 2023 13:24:13 GMT gillan1220 said:

The European arms of the late 1930s would probably cause Germany's economy to collapse. Hitler's obsession with wonder weapons proved to be an economic drain in the long term.

So question, will the United States of the 1930s except the total Independence of the Philippines, in their eyes i would think, the Philippines is still under their control regardless if it is 10 years older.

The Tydings-McDuffie Act was already signed on March 24, 1934 and took effect on May 1 of that year. That act meant the Philippines would become independent in 10 years (11 in OTL because of World War II). Regionally, the 1954 UT Philippines would be powerful enough to have its say self-determination. Even if the UT was numerically inferior in the air force and the navy (its ships being WWII surplus USN minesweepers, patrol boats, landing ship tanks, lighthouse tenders, and destroyer escorts), in the ground, UT AFP units are more powerful than the 1934 U.S. Army and Marines.

I don't think the U.S. under FDR would attempt to "recolonize" the Philippines. Rather, DT Washington and UT Manila will sort things out via diplomatic means. This would probably mean that DT U.S. military forces get deployed to the Philippines, but with the UT Filipinos training them how to use what equipment was left behind. The bigger ones like the Gleaves-class, Allan M. Sumner-class, and Fletcher-class destroyers, along with one CVE in Subic Bay, and the F-86s at Clark would probably be returned to the DT U.S. for study.

[stevep]

   I would say talk of Pearl Harbour or British strategic bombing of Berlin would be way off. Given the news coming out of the Philippines I very much doubt that either will occur.

  In Europe even if there's no a quick intervention to remove Hitler and the Nazis any time he does anything like a re-occupation of the Rhineland the French definitely intervene, probably supported, or at least cheered on by Britain, Poland, Belgium and possibly the US.  [The Czechs might also be more than an observer in such a situation as well].  Nazi Germany has too many enemies all of a sudden to be likely to do more than some early atrocities among its own population, nasty as they are likely to be before assorted neighbours go stomp.  Not sure what would be done with Mussolini or if/when a Spanish civil war starts.  Possibly the established powers would decide to accept either/both as the lesser of two evils unless Mussolini does something really stupid. 

  As for the Far East so many people will learn a lot more about so many things.  Both in terms of stopping the Japanese empire somewhere in its tracks, quite possibly when it tries invading China in 1937  and in later events such as the independence of the Indian sub-continent [India, Pakistan, Ceylon and Burma as they were then] and the ongoing colonial wars elsewhere plus the USSR becoming such a colossus, China falling to communism and nuclear weapons coming into being.  Likely to be a hell of an arms race in the latter, along with delivery systems and definitely a determination that a Nazi Germany doesn't get them!

  How they will think of other things like the rise to overwhelming economic dominance by the US, the fact that FDR's 1932 win is the 1st of 6 by the Democrats before a former army officer most people in 1934 won't know at all becomes a Republican president.  [Going to be interesting how the career of him and assorted other notables of WWII and the following decade are affected here].  Similarly with Britain and the development of things like the NHS, France and the fall of both the country and the 3rd Republic and assorted other changes.