What if the Philippine Republic was ISOT'ed from July 4th 1954 to July 4th 1934?

[lordroel]

Lets hope a certian PM does not do this after getting informed by Sir Frank Gibbs, ambassador of the United Kingdom to the Philippines in 1954.

[stevep]

Jun 23, 2023 14:05:03 GMT lordroel said:

Lets hope a certian PM does not do this after getting informed by Sir Frank Gibbs, ambassador of the United Kingdom to the Philippines in 1954.

  As I say I can't see Hitler getting anything like that far.

[spiegel]

Jun 23, 2023 13:24:13 GMT gillan1220 said:

Jun 23, 2023 9:49:35 GMT spiegel said:

well ok let's see the RAF and FAA been prepped those new toys to make the Germans got oh crap they got cool toys than ours.

The European arms of the late 1930s would probably cause Germany's economy to collapse. Hitler's obsession with wonder weapons proved to be an economic drain in the long term.

well i bet still the Soviets in other hand well imagine Soviets spies been appeared on 1954 Philippines got isoted on 1934 like sent their spies in to check their military and they found out they had USAF jets like taking those pics sent to Moscow for Stalin to see like they wanted those Sabres too.

[gillan1220]

Jun 23, 2023 14:24:57 GMT stevep said:

As I say I can't see Hitler getting anything like that far.

World War II in this DT world would be very very much different. Especially if DT UK and France managed to get hold of the UT technology from the Philippines or DT USA shared with them to prevent another Sudentenland.

Jun 23, 2023 14:26:25 GMT spiegel said:

well i bet still the Soviets in other hand well imagine Soviets spies been appeared on 1954 Philippines got isoted on 1934 like sent their spies in to check their military and they found out they had USAF jets like taking those pics sent to Moscow for Stalin to see like they wanted those Sabres too.

All foreign personnel in the Philippines were not brought with the ISOT. Plus, Philippine-Soviet relations didn't exist in 1954.

[gillan1220]

Jun 23, 2023 13:50:01 GMT stevep said:

   I would say talk of Pearl Harbour or British strategic bombing of Berlin would be way off. Given the news coming out of the Philippines I very much doubt that either will occur.

  In Europe even if there's no a quick intervention to remove Hitler and the Nazis any time he does anything like a re-occupation of the Rhineland the French definitely intervene, probably supported, or at least cheered on by Britain, Poland, Belgium and possibly the US.  [The Czechs might also be more than an observer in such a situation as well].  Nazi Germany has too many enemies all of a sudden to be likely to do more than some early atrocities among its own population, nasty as they are likely to be before assorted neighbours go stomp.  Not sure what would be done with Mussolini or if/when a Spanish civil war starts.  Possibly the established powers would decide to accept either/both as the lesser of two evils unless Mussolini does something really stupid. 

  As for the Far East so many people will learn a lot more about so many things.  Both in terms of stopping the Japanese empire somewhere in its tracks, quite possibly when it tries invading China in 1937  and in later events such as the independence of the Indian sub-continent [India, Pakistan, Ceylon and Burma as they were then] and the ongoing colonial wars elsewhere plus the USSR becoming such a colossus, China falling to communism and nuclear weapons coming into being.  Likely to be a hell of an arms race in the latter, along with delivery systems and definitely a determination that a Nazi Germany doesn't get them!

  How they will think of other things like the rise to overwhelming economic dominance by the US, the fact that FDR's 1932 win is the 1st of 6 by the Democrats before a former army officer most people in 1934 won't know at all becomes a Republican president.  [Going to be interesting how the career of him and assorted other notables of WWII and the following decade are affected here].  Similarly with Britain and the development of things like the NHS, France and the fall of both the country and the 3rd Republic and assorted other changes.

To sum it up, an earlier multipolar Cold War, an arms race of jet fighters, semi-automatic rifles, and nuclear weapons, and lots and lots of butterflies.

This multipolar arms race might result in the collapse of the economy of Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union, since in the 1930s, both economies were crap. Even the Soviet economy could not keep up with Reagan's arms race in the 1980s, the more if this was set 50 years prior.

[spiegel]

Philippine Army Tanks in 1954 been shemrans US and Brits will see it too to learn those designs.

[gillan1220]

Jun 24, 2023 4:24:28 GMT spiegel said:

Philippine Army Tanks in 1954 been shemrans US and Brits will see it too to learn those designs.

Shermans, Chaffees, and Hellcats. Meanwhile, DT U.S. Army is still using M3 Stuarts.

[spiegel]

Jun 24, 2023 5:38:41 GMT gillan1220 said:

Jun 24, 2023 4:24:28 GMT spiegel said:

Philippine Army Tanks in 1954 been shemrans US and Brits will see it too to learn those designs.

Shermans, Chaffees, and Hellcats. Meanwhile, DT U.S. Army is still using M3 Stuarts.

The Brits will seeing those tanks and they had to make haste like creating Churchills and Matildas especially Crusaders the French will need their own Medium Tank like the S35 or Char B1 whenever French Army Advisors visiting on 1954 Philippines.

[575]

Jun 24, 2023 6:43:16 GMT spiegel said:

Jun 24, 2023 5:38:41 GMT gillan1220 said:

Shermans, Chaffees, and Hellcats. Meanwhile, DT U.S. Army is still using M3 Stuarts.

The Brits will seeing those tanks and they had to make haste like creating Churchills and Matildas especially Crusaders the French will need their own Medium Tank like the S35 or Char B1 whenever French Army Advisors visiting on 1954 Philippines.

Important thing is the Brits and French understand not to over-task the Commander but free him up to COMMAND! Multi man turrets. And radio in every vehicle.

[spiegel]

so you expect from China been seeing 1954 Philippines too like Chinese Refugees on the 1st Sino Japanese War and 2 Sino Japanese War had fled on Philippines before World War 2 like seeing those tech 1954 Philippines like if China will got a chance to fight back against the Imperial Japanese Army.

[gillan1220]

Jun 25, 2023 3:29:39 GMT spiegel said:

so you expect from China been seeing 1954 Philippines too like Chinese Refugees on the 1st Sino Japanese War and 2 Sino Japanese War had fled on Philippines before World War 2 like seeing those tech 1954 Philippines like if China will got a chance to fight back against the Imperial Japanese Army.

The KMT is too corrupt and unorganized in this period. In 1934, the Second Sino-Japanese War did not start yet.

[spiegel]

Jun 25, 2023 16:38:35 GMT gillan1220 said:

Jun 25, 2023 3:29:39 GMT spiegel said:

so you expect from China been seeing 1954 Philippines too like Chinese Refugees on the 1st Sino Japanese War and 2 Sino Japanese War had fled on Philippines before World War 2 like seeing those tech 1954 Philippines like if China will got a chance to fight back against the Imperial Japanese Army.

The KMT is too corrupt and unorganized in this period. In 1934, the Second Sino-Japanese War did not start yet.

Wa-Chi Vets are in 1954 Philippines been staying on Philippines due to Chinese Civil War though.

[gillan1220]

Jun 25, 2023 23:40:05 GMT spiegel said:

Jun 25, 2023 16:38:35 GMT gillan1220 said:

The KMT is too corrupt and unorganized in this period. In 1934, the Second Sino-Japanese War did not start yet.

Wa-Chi Vets are in 1954 Philippines been staying on Philippines due to Chinese Civil War though.

Yes, those Wa-Chi veterans that stayed behind after the mainland fell to Mao. They were planning to return to the mainland but Japan surrendered before they could do so.

Perhaps the Wa-Chi could inform their DT Chinese counterparts how to eradicate the communists at least in the Fujian Province of China.

[raharris1973]

Well spiegel and gillan1220, 'future knowledge' will be there for 1934 Chiang Kai-Shek and the 1954 Kuomintang to take advantage of, against both the Communists and the Japanese.

The Philippines and ROC-Taiwan had decent cooperative relations in 1954 with official and non-official travelers going back and forth. Many Filipinos associated with the Magsaysay government would have their own experiences of reform and counterinsurgency in defeating the Huk rebels to share, and would be aware of the contemporary reforms in ROC-Taiwan of the day, as well as at least all the basics of the history of the Chinese Civil War and Sino-Japanese War between 1934 and 1949. So the 1934 ChiNat's can profit if they are of a mind to listen and learn. Which can be challenging, because they are under a lot of immediate, day-to-day pressures, and can be easily distracted.

[gillan1220]

Jun 26, 2023 1:54:30 GMT raharris1973 said:

Well spiegel and gillan1220 , 'future knowledge' will be there for 1934 Chiang Kai-Shek and the 1954 Kuomintang to take advantage of, against both the Communists and the Japanese.

The Philippines and ROC-Taiwan had decent cooperative relations in 1954 with official and non-official travelers going back and forth. Many Filipinos associated with the Magsaysay government would have their own experiences of reform and counterinsurgency in defeating the Huk rebels to share, and would be aware of the contemporary reforms in ROC-Taiwan of the day, as well as at least all the basics of the history of the Chinese Civil War and Sino-Japanese War between 1934 and 1949. So the 1934 ChiNat's can profit if they are of a mind to listen and learn. Which can be challenging, because they are under a lot of immediate, day-to-day pressures, and can be easily distracted.

The Philippines in 1954 recognized the ROC as the legitimate Chinese government.

Yes, the AFP would have COIN strategies to share to the KMT on how to combat communist insurgents. Probably, Magsaysay can convinced DT FDR to push for arming the NRA. Unfortunately, the KMT has do deal with massive corruption and incompetence that would hinder COIN operations against Mao Zedong and his forces. The DT ROC is different from the 1954 ROC. The communists too weren't much of a threat to the U.S. and Asia as a whole. They only became threat in the 1950s because of the Domino Theory and the Truman Doctrine.