lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jul 2, 2023 13:18:55 GMT
Have asked on SLP where the author is a member a question already regarding George V being king instead of his father. Thanks. Would be interested to hear what he/she says - since there are multiple authors. [Unless its HGW communicating by seance! ]  Well if they answer that, will ask any other question on the future, like what is the Great War butterflied away, because this picture below is how i see war being fought, with British Walkers instead of tanks.  |
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Post by simon darkshade on Jul 2, 2023 13:35:55 GMT
Further to Steve's observation on Lloyd George, they also have him be the last Liberal PM, with the Liberals being reduced to third party status exactly on historical schedule, without the small matter of WW1 or any of the steps that lead to the Liberal split and rise of Labour. That is an example of one of the laziest tropes in Alternate History writing - aping the results in @ even though there is a literal world of difference.
Perhaps it is my dislike of modern social media and writing in a series of tweets and hashtags, but the structural choice is a bit grating. Novel concept, but would work better for more contemporaneous pieces. I could see The War of the Worlds being done in an app or even a Choose Your Own Adventure structure, but this one doesn't work.
Shoehorning Harry Morant into a very different setting raised my eyebrow, but that seems to be a preference of the author of that section.
All up, it falls into the uncanny valley of quality - not glaringly bad by any means, but with enough flaws to make it show up as not good.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jul 2, 2023 18:24:34 GMT
Thanks. Would be interested to hear what he/she says - since there are multiple authors. [Unless its HGW communicating by seance! ] Well if they answer that, will ask any other question on the future, like what is the Great War butterflied away, because this picture below is how i see war being fought, with British Walkers instead of tanks.
I don't know about walkers, especially since it sounds like Britain develops aircraft fairly early on, which would also suggest a very efficient power source for them flying and able to carry some sort of bomb load fairly early on. However if a world war did occur its likely to be very different and could well be markedly more destructive. Although that could also make it far shorter possibly.
The other issue would be has the Martian invasion broken the barrier on the use of gas or would there be a reaction that prompts it being banned decisively. [If so is that complied with if war came?]
Steve
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jul 2, 2023 18:30:41 GMT
Further to Steve's observation on Lloyd George, they also have him be the last Liberal PM, with the Liberals being reduced to third party status exactly on historical schedule, without the small matter of WW1 or any of the steps that lead to the Liberal split and rise of Labour. That is an example of one of the laziest tropes in Alternate History writing - aping the results in @ even though there is a literal world of difference. Perhaps it is my dislike of modern social media and writing in a series of tweets and hashtags, but the structural choice is a bit grating. Novel concept, but would work better for more contemporaneous pieces. I could see The War of the Worlds being done in an app or even a Choose Your Own Adventure structure, but this one doesn't work. Shoehorning Harry Morant into a very different setting raised my eyebrow, but that seems to be a preference of the author of that section. All up, it falls into the uncanny valley of quality - not glaringly bad by any means, but with enough flaws to make it show up as not good.
Not too bothered by the modern social media use as can accept that as a bid to try and make the stories more interesting to a wider audience. Especially possibly those younger people who have never heard of HG Wells or think of him as an ancient figure of no relevance to them. However agree that the duplication of so many OTL events despite the massive changes in this world does grate. Its very much a early 21st century image of the story with no real appreciation of the ideas and views of the time. Similarly with the idea that people are so angry the government withdrew north so it could continue to function rather than simply staying in London to be destroyed. Its going to upset some people at the time but nowhere near as many as the authors seem to expect.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jul 2, 2023 18:31:34 GMT
The other issue would be has the Martian invasion broken the barrier on the use of gas or would there be a reaction that prompts it being banned decisively. [If so is that complied with if war came?] Steve
Is the Black Smoke used by the Martians the same as the gas we developed and used during the Great War. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jul 2, 2023 18:36:57 GMT
The other issue would be has the Martian invasion broken the barrier on the use of gas or would there be a reaction that prompts it being banned decisively. [If so is that complied with if war came?] Steve
Is the Black Smoke used by the Martians the same as the gas we developed and used during the Great War.
Well there were choking gases similar to the black smoke as described and the hooded masks used in the story are fairly similar to masks in WWI. The Black Smoke other than in colour seems quite similar to chlorine, the gas the Germans used in their earliest attacks. Of course things became a lot more complex very quickly with a lot of different and more lethal gases being developed, including blister agents that acted on the skin which meant you needed to protect more than just the breathing tracts.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jul 2, 2023 18:40:09 GMT
Is the Black Smoke used by the Martians the same as the gas we developed and used during the Great War. Well there were choking gases similar to the black smoke as described and the hooded masks used in the story are fairly similar to masks in WWI. The Black Smoke other than in colour seems quite similar to chlorine, the gas the Germans used in their earliest attacks. Of course things became a lot more complex very quickly with a lot of different and more lethal gases being developed, including blister agents that acted on the skin which meant you needed to protect more than just the breathing tracts.
Well the only country who has suffered the Black Smoke is the United Kingdom, other countries like Germany might think, lets see if we can build our own Black Smoke, just in case the British have it as well. |
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Post by simon darkshade on Jul 3, 2023 3:34:08 GMT
Further to Steve's observation on Lloyd George, they also have him be the last Liberal PM, with the Liberals being reduced to third party status exactly on historical schedule, without the small matter of WW1 or any of the steps that lead to the Liberal split and rise of Labour. That is an example of one of the laziest tropes in Alternate History writing - aping the results in @ even though there is a literal world of difference. Perhaps it is my dislike of modern social media and writing in a series of tweets and hashtags, but the structural choice is a bit grating. Novel concept, but would work better for more contemporaneous pieces. I could see The War of the Worlds being done in an app or even a Choose Your Own Adventure structure, but this one doesn't work. Shoehorning Harry Morant into a very different setting raised my eyebrow, but that seems to be a preference of the author of that section. All up, it falls into the uncanny valley of quality - not glaringly bad by any means, but with enough flaws to make it show up as not good.
Not too bothered by the modern social media use as can accept that as a bid to try and make the stories more interesting to a wider audience. Especially possibly those younger people who have never heard of HG Wells or think of him as an ancient figure of no relevance to them.
However agree that the duplication of so many OTL events despite the massive changes in this world does grate. Its very much a early 21st century image of the story with no real appreciation of the ideas and views of the time. Similarly with the idea that people are so angry the government withdrew north so it could continue to function rather than simply staying in London to be destroyed. Its going to upset some people at the time but nowhere near as many as the authors seem to expect.
I think that is a mirage of a feature. Alternate history is an extremely niche genre to begin with and no combination of structural dalliances will alter that. Further, the Twitter style is even a bit 'too old' for the youngsters of today, who apparently gravitate to TikTok and other videos; Twitter seems to be more of the niche for particular subgroups of older people. I would go so far as to say that ~98% of the younger audience has never heard of HG Wells, with even the Tom Cruise adaption of War of the Worlds being an 'ancient' or 'old' movie for Modern Audiences. To choose this structure for that reason is to chase a mirage and is as in touch with the young zeitgeist of the Gen Z and Gen Alpha kiddies as Ben Elton or Alexei Sayle. The idea of telling a story through diary entries, installments and differing perspectives does work, but when the modern garb of Twitter and hashtags are adopted, then it crosses the line to trying that bit *too* hard. Utterly agree on aping of OTL, the 21st century positions driving the story choices and the sheer lack of research; the Royal Victorian Order was only opened to women in 1936, for example. The authors are apparently professionals - a former teacher, writer and editor who wrote a niche AH story and edited another 'zany' collection; a writer fond of sci-fi and AH; a female YA sci fi writer; and a retired mental health worker who has written zany stuff for a few decades. This is an eclectic collection, but perhaps not the optimal one for a late Victorian work from a different world, politically, culturally and socially. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jul 7, 2023 16:07:03 GMT
Have asked on SLP where the author is a member a question already regarding George V being king instead of his father. Thanks. Would be interested to hear what he/she says - since there are multiple authors. [Unless its HGW communicating by seance! ] Have a responds from the author regarding George V being king instead of his father. Andrew J Harvey over at SLP said: Following Queen Victoria's death on 22 January 1900, Edward's coronation had originally been scheduled for 26 June 1901. However, the coronation had to be delayed when two days before, he had been diagnosed with appendicitis. The disease was generally not treated operatively. It carried a high mortality rate, but developments in anaesthesia and antisepsis in the preceding 50 years made life-saving surgery possible. Sir Frederick Treves, with the support of Lord Lister, intended to operate on the King by performing the then-radical operation of draining pus from the infected abscess through a small incision. Unfortunately the abscess burst before the operation began and Edward died two days later.
King George V was crowned at Westminster Abbey on 9 August 1902 by the Archbishop of Canterbury, Frederick Temple.
I suspect your question relates to our commentary on the Universal Suffrage Act being one of the first Acts passed by the new Liberal government upon its election in 1900, but was subsequently rejected by the Conservative-dominated House of Lords.
Following a 2nd general election in December, the Act was passed with the assent of the new monarch, George V, after the House of Lords was forced to concede following the Government’s threat to overcome the Conservative majority in the Lords by creating a number of new peers. I note that George V actually became king on the death of his father, even though he was not crowned until over a year later.
Given your interest in Edward VII you might be interested in reading Harry Turtledoves famous alternate history: 'The Edwardians' in which he considered what might have happened if Treves and Lister had managed to operate on the King to drain the abscess before it ruptured. Alternatively you might want to consider Wikipedia's similar article on what might have been, and on which some of this reply has been based. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_VII |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jul 7, 2023 19:00:55 GMT
Thanks. Would be interested to hear what he/she says - since there are multiple authors. [Unless its HGW communicating by seance! ] Have a responds from the author regarding George V being king instead of his father. Andrew J Harvey over at SLP said: Following Queen Victoria's death on 22 January 1900, Edward's coronation had originally been scheduled for 26 June 1901. However, the coronation had to be delayed when two days before, he had been diagnosed with appendicitis. The disease was generally not treated operatively. It carried a high mortality rate, but developments in anaesthesia and antisepsis in the preceding 50 years made life-saving surgery possible. Sir Frederick Treves, with the support of Lord Lister, intended to operate on the King by performing the then-radical operation of draining pus from the infected abscess through a small incision. Unfortunately the abscess burst before the operation began and Edward died two days later.
King George V was crowned at Westminster Abbey on 9 August 1902 by the Archbishop of Canterbury, Frederick Temple.
I suspect your question relates to our commentary on the Universal Suffrage Act being one of the first Acts passed by the new Liberal government upon its election in 1900, but was subsequently rejected by the Conservative-dominated House of Lords.
Following a 2nd general election in December, the Act was passed with the assent of the new monarch, George V, after the House of Lords was forced to concede following the Government’s threat to overcome the Conservative majority in the Lords by creating a number of new peers. I note that George V actually became king on the death of his father, even though he was not crowned until over a year later.
Given your interest in Edward VII you might be interested in reading Harry Turtledoves famous alternate history: 'The Edwardians' in which he considered what might have happened if Treves and Lister had managed to operate on the King to drain the abscess before it ruptured. Alternatively you might want to consider Wikipedia's similar article on what might have been, and on which some of this reply has been based. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_VII
OK thanks. So the OTL close call killed him, probably giving him the shortest reign for a monarch of England since Harold II, unless you include Lady Jane Grey who I wouldn't say ever really obtained formal recognition.
If things had gone as they suggested with the Lord's veto being removed in 1902, even without some level of female suffrage would be a major game changer in world events, albeit not as much as the Martian invasion.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jul 8, 2023 11:20:29 GMT
If things had gone as they suggested with the Lord's veto being removed in 1902, even without some level of female suffrage would be a major game changer in world events, albeit not as much as the Martian invasion.
Think the most changes will happen in the United Kingdom, of course other countries want to get their hands on heat rays and flying machines and Walker technology of course. |
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