Jaguar Marine

[ukron]

The SEPECAT Jaguar is well known, emblematic of French (as well as British and Indian) military campaigns, this ground attack aircraft has had a little-known yet fascinating variant:
The story begins in the 50s and 60s, when the French Navy was looking for an aircraft capable of carrying a tactical atomic bomb (AN-52) to equip its future airborne carrier: the Verdun.
Although the naval Mirage III and IV projects failed, and the Verdun ended up in the dungeons of some ministry, the Navy still needed a long-range, multi-task aircraft: the failure of the Mirage G didn't prevent the need to replace the F-8E Crusader and the Étendard IVM/P.
The Jaguar M (M05) was developed between 1968 and 1969, and the addition of a stop stick and laser rangefinder enabled the aircraft to land smoothly on an aircraft carrier.
The first test campaign in France was a success and led to another series of tests in the UK (Bedford, 1970-1), where the aircraft was definitively ready for catapulting.

The last test campaign took place on the Clémenceau between 1971 and 72, and several major faults were noted: the underpowering of the craft was a major problem in the event of engine failure during landing (a power "modulator" was indeed envisaged to solve the problem)/the AP's catapult had to be reinforced to launch the craft optimally.

Faced with these problems, La Marine and the French government did not insist and abandoned the project in 73 in favor of SEM (Super-Etendard).

[lordroel]

Dec 4, 2023 19:38:08 GMT ukron said:

The SEPECAT Jaguar is well known, emblematic of French (as well as British and Indian) military campaigns, this ground attack aircraft has had a little-known yet fascinating variant:
The story begins in the 50s and 60s, when the French Navy was looking for an aircraft capable of carrying a tactical atomic bomb (AN-52) to equip its future airborne carrier: the Verdun.
Although the naval Mirage III and IV projects failed, and the Verdun ended up in the dungeons of some ministry, the Navy still needed a long-range, multi-task aircraft: the failure of the Mirage G didn't prevent the need to replace the F-8E Crusader and the Étendard IVM/P.
The Jaguar M (M05) was developed between 1968 and 1969, and the addition of a stop stick and laser rangefinder enabled the aircraft to land smoothly on an aircraft carrier.
The first test campaign in France was a success and led to another series of tests in the UK (Bedford, 1970-1), where the aircraft was definitively ready for catapulting.

The last test campaign took place on the Clémenceau between 1971 and 72, and several major faults were noted: the underpowering of the craft was a major problem in the event of engine failure during landing (a power "modulator" was indeed envisaged to solve the problem)/the AP's catapult had to be reinforced to launch the craft optimally.

Faced with these problems, La Marine and the French government did not insist and abandoned the project in 73 in favor of SEM (Super-Etendard).

Interesting, never new they tested a navalised version of the Jaguar.

The Jaguar Marine

[lordroel]

Found this as well: SEPECAT Jaguar M Carrier Trials.

[575]

Did a 1/72 model of it quite some years ago:

[lordroel]

Dec 5, 2023 8:41:49 GMT 575 said:

Did a 1/72 model of it quite some years ago:

View Attachment

Looks good.

[575]

Dec 5, 2023 17:26:26 GMT lordroel said:

Dec 5, 2023 8:41:49 GMT 575 said:

Did a 1/72 model of it quite some years ago:

View Attachment

Looks good.

Its really AH as it wasn't in service and its actutally in late Super Etendard Modernisé scheme. I think it suits it.

[lordroel]

Dec 5, 2023 18:14:37 GMT 575 said:

Dec 5, 2023 17:26:26 GMT lordroel said:

Looks good.

Its really AH as it wasn't in service and its actutally in late Super Etendard Modernisé scheme. I think it suits it.

Now i wonder, how much does the Jaguar Marine and Super Etendard diffrence in performance.

[575]

Dec 5, 2023 18:15:57 GMT lordroel said:

Dec 5, 2023 18:14:37 GMT 575 said:

Its really AH as it wasn't in service and its actutally in late Super Etendard Modernisé scheme. I think it suits it.

Now i wonder, how much does the Jaguar Marine and Super Etendard diffrence in performance.

They are of more or less like caractaristics but the Jaguar is the older design and needed some engine ungrade as aready pointed to. It also had shorter range. Both have performed well in their role.

[dasein]

Bill Gunston take is a bit different. Of course the Jaguar was the better plane, more capable in all fields, from range to speed.
Also funny they mentioned at the time that it would a problem for the jaguar if an engine failed. Just imagine if the only engine fails in the Super Etendard! That's an issue! And that's why the navy always prefers twin engine aircraft.
Gunston, speaking in the 1970s,was of the opinion that it was Dassault's political pressure on the french government that ended the jaguar M essentially because the Super Etendard was 100% french (i.e. Dassault's) and the jaguar was of course half British. Also dassault offered a lower price but that was all fake. The french navy ordered 100 planes but eventually they have to reduce the order to 71 due to price increases.

[575]

Dec 8, 2023 10:41:09 GMT dasein said:

Bill Gunston take is a bit different. Of course the Jaguar was the better plane, more capable in all fields, from range to speed.
Also funny they mentioned at the time that it would a problem for the jaguar if an engine failed. Just imagine if the only engine fails in the Super Etendard! That's an issue! And that's why the navy always prefers twin engine aircraft.
Gunston, speaking in the 1970s,was of the opinion that it was Dassault's political pressure on the french government that ended the jaguar M essentially because the Super Etendard was 100% french (i.e. Dassault's) and the jaguar was of course half British. Also dassault offered a lower price but that was all fake. The french navy ordered 100 planes but eventually they have to reduce the order to 71 due to price increases.

It wasn't just one engine failing of two but resultant underpowering during landing (and I'd expect lack of thrust for aborting landing?) but also strengthening of Carrier Decks and Catapults - look up the French Fleet Air Arm site

Its not always a prerogative of Navies to have Carrier-based aircraft bi-engined. As I know the A-4 Skyhawk have always been so.

[575]

Some additional regarding the engine problems - according to Wiki

in July 1970, it underwent a series of shipboard trials from the French carrier Clemenceau. From these trials there were doubts about the throttle response in case of an aborted landing. The shipboard testing also revealed problems with the aircraft's handling when flying on one engine, although planned engine improvements were to have rectified these problems.

And from somebody else

last round of carrier tests created some concerns. Throttle response left something to be desired and it was thought that should the Jaguar lose one of its two engines then it did not have enough power to safely land aboard.
It was also thought by the French navy that they may need to make modifications to their two carriers for them to operate fully loaded Jaguar’s safely.

And there's probably more to be found out there.

[dasein]

Landing is the most critical moment in a flight because losing control of the aircraft for a few seconds may result in a crash. That's why improving throttle control and good reserve power in twin engined aircraft is very important to increase the chances of not having an accident if you suddenly lose one engine. But those are the kind of issues that can and are being solved before the aircraft enters service.
But if you lose your only engine when about to land doesn't matter your throttle control or engine power because they won't be working. Not only the chance of having a crash is of course 100% but also very likely it'll be a fatal accident.