The Macedonian empire remains united after Alex the great's death

[justiniano]

What if Alexander the great instituted a way for power to pass down to a single successor, causing the Macedonian empire to remain united? I personally think that with a unified empire, the spread and influence of Hellenistic culture could have been more extensive and uniform. Alexander's campaigns had already begun the process of Hellenization, blending Greek culture with those of the East. A stable empire could have deepened cultural integration and exchanges, potentially altering the development of arts, science, and philosophy in the region.

[stevep]

Apr 17, 2024 22:46:22 GMT justiniano said:

What if Alexander the great instituted a way for power to pass down to a single successor, causing the Macedonian empire to remain united? I personally think that with a unified empire, the spread and influence of Hellenistic culture could have been more extensive and uniform. Alexander's campaigns had already begun the process of Hellenization, blending Greek culture with those of the East. A stable empire could have deepened cultural integration and exchanges, potentially altering the development of arts, science, and philosophy in the region.

  I think for a start you have to avoid his early death, which left no nominated successor and his only children being too young to be serious challengers themselves.  Ideally if he lives another couple of decades, hence an heir is old enough and established - plus possibly some of his generals who OTL fought for power are too old to be major challenges.

  Its still a huge empire even if he doesn't go on campaign to seek to expand it further.  Most of it is based on the former Persian empire but with new 'owners' and an attempt to combine the two cultures, along with others its going to be difficult to maintain unity for say a couple of generations until there's a recognised new elite that has a broad enough support.  One problem here, apart from the chance that Alexander might seek to expand the empire further is that he did seem to be getting more and more autocratic in his final years which wouldn't help.

  If you did get a stable empire that lasted a couple of centuries your likely to have huge impacts.  Most especially in terms of the impact on Greece and points westwards and also how the empire interacts with Indian and also dealing with nomadic attackers from beyond the Oxus.  It could have a very wealthy and complex culture and art but I wouldn't expect too much scientific development as universal states that reach such size tend to be very conservative as the rulers tend to avoid changes that could upset the apple cart and their own power.

[justiniano]

Apr 18, 2024 19:01:36 GMT stevep said:

I think for a start you have to avoid his early death, which left no nominated successor and his only children being too young to be serious challengers themselves.  Ideally if he lives another couple of decades, hence an heir is old enough and established - plus possibly some of his generals who OTL fought for power are too old to be major challenges.

  Its still a huge empire even if he doesn't go on campaign to seek to expand it further.  Most of it is based on the former Persian empire but with new 'owners' and an attempt to combine the two cultures, along with others its going to be difficult to maintain unity for say a couple of generations until there's a recognised new elite that has a broad enough support.  One problem here, apart from the chance that Alexander might seek to expand the empire further is that he did seem to be getting more and more autocratic in his final years which wouldn't help.

  If you did get a stable empire that lasted a couple of centuries your likely to have huge impacts.  Most especially in terms of the impact on Greece and points westwards and also how the empire interacts with Indian and also dealing with nomadic attackers from beyond the Oxus.  It could have a very wealthy and complex culture and art but I wouldn't expect too much scientific development as universal states that reach such size tend to be very conservative as the rulers tend to avoid changes that could upset the apple cart and their own power.

What if AtG sacrifices 11% of the time he spent Drinking, and spends half of this time on grooming his son for eventually succeeding him, the other half on Ptolemy, in case he (alex) dies before his son is old enough. This less drinking expands his lifespan just barely enough for him to see his 34th birthday. When he dies, Ptolemy takes over, then when Ptolemy dies, Alexander's son takes over, and Ptolemy or Alex's son, due to this extra guidance make Zoroastrianism the state religion, but incorporate some Greek mythology into it, by infusing Ahura Mazda with Zeus, and abolish slavery like the Achaemenids did.

[stevep]

Apr 19, 2024 2:23:51 GMT justiniano said:

Apr 18, 2024 19:01:36 GMT stevep said:

I think for a start you have to avoid his early death, which left no nominated successor and his only children being too young to be serious challengers themselves.  Ideally if he lives another couple of decades, hence an heir is old enough and established - plus possibly some of his generals who OTL fought for power are too old to be major challenges.

  Its still a huge empire even if he doesn't go on campaign to seek to expand it further.  Most of it is based on the former Persian empire but with new 'owners' and an attempt to combine the two cultures, along with others its going to be difficult to maintain unity for say a couple of generations until there's a recognised new elite that has a broad enough support.  One problem here, apart from the chance that Alexander might seek to expand the empire further is that he did seem to be getting more and more autocratic in his final years which wouldn't help.

  If you did get a stable empire that lasted a couple of centuries your likely to have huge impacts.  Most especially in terms of the impact on Greece and points westwards and also how the empire interacts with Indian and also dealing with nomadic attackers from beyond the Oxus.  It could have a very wealthy and complex culture and art but I wouldn't expect too much scientific development as universal states that reach such size tend to be very conservative as the rulers tend to avoid changes that could upset the apple cart and their own power.

What if AtG sacrifices 11% of the time he spent Drinking, and spends half of this time on grooming his son for eventually succeeding him, the other half on Ptolemy, in case he (alex) dies before his son is old enough. This less drinking expands his lifespan just barely enough for him to see his 34th birthday. When he dies, Ptolemy takes over, then when Ptolemy dies, Alexander's son takes over, and Ptolemy or Alex's son, due to this extra guidance make Zoroastrianism the state religion, but incorporate some Greek mythology into it, by infusing Ahura Mazda with Zeus, and abolish slavery like the Achaemenids did.

  Interesting idea.  Not sure what caused Alexander's early death although heavy drinking didn't help.  However without that and if he avoided any further campaigning other than to defend his current empire he could last a lot longer.

  Religion is a difficult issue, especially with the clash between a polytheistic and a monotheistic faith.  I think going either for Zoroastrianism or the Greek pantheon as a clear state religion would be very divisive.  It should be possible to allow a fair level of freedom of worship and I think that would be the best way of maintaining internal stability as choosing explicitly either of those options would alienate a very large and both politically and militarily important part of the population - as well as a possible negative impact in other areas like Egypt and Phonesia among probably others..

[Max Sinister]

Do you know Toynbee's famous classical AH where exactly that happens? If yes, do you like it? If no, which parts would you like to improve?

[stevep]

Apr 20, 2024 23:22:20 GMT Max Sinister said:

Do you know Toynbee's famous classical AH where exactly that happens? If yes, do you like it? If no, which parts would you like to improve?

  Its ringing a bell but not much of one.  Was this something about him heading west and fighting Rome and Carthage?  If so I think that would be a mistake as it would further over-extend the empire and make it too big for a single ruler to control and administrate.  You would have to use something akin to the Persian satrap system and with provinces that distant and culturally varied - especially if trying to impose some religious unity - its also a recipe for regular revolt.  Also I do remember reading somewhere that  Alexander did plan to attack Carthage but that the Phoenicians who would have supplied much of the naval power refused to support an operation against their kin.

  Had a quick look in Google and found this.  Given how the core of his army mutinied and insisted on returning home from the Indus valley I can't see him seriously conquering India, let alone China.  True I think China and probably India were disunited at this period but those are way, way too large and distant for such an operation with the technology of the day, especially with a predominantly infantry army.  I doubt its practical for a predominantly Persian cavalry army which would have more men and resources if he managed to co-opt a lot of them successfully.  Possibly an advance to puppetise the Ganges valley but that would always be difficult to hold.  It would also add another culture and environment that the empire has to deal with.  As I think Italy and Carthage would be a step too far such ideas are likely to fail.

[Max Sinister]

True, it is a kind of wank, but it's grandfathered in, so to speak. Especially the strike against Qin's back seems unrealistic. And the quick development of railroads. Let alone that there's no butterfly effect - but it hadn't been invented yet.