Mongol tribes ISOT to the Great Plains 1206 AD.

[Otto Kretschmer]

What if the Mongol tribes right after Genghis Khan had unified them in 1206, were ISOTed to the Great Plains of North America?

There are several things to consider:
1. Diseases. The Mongols carry diseases the Native Americans are not immune to. Do expect a significant proportion of them to die out of disease although probably not as many as after European arrival.
2. Horses. The Mongols have horses and probably some other animals as well.
3. Iron. The Mongols have iron weapons, armor and tools. These would spread to Native Americans.
4. The alphabet. The Mongol script is already in use by 1206.

In general I expect for the Mongols to spread across all of North America and to conquer everything from Mexico to the East Coast of the US, aided by diseases. When Europeans arrive some 300 years later, I expect all of North America to be filled with Mongol successor states, with Mongolian being the lingua franca across the continent. European conquest will be ompossible due to disease immunity and fierce resistance from the hybrid Mongol-Amerindian culture.

What do you guys think?

[stevep]

Jun 4, 2024 15:56:38 GMT Otto Kretschmer said:

What if the Mongol tribes right after Genghis Khan had unified them in 1206, were ISOTed to the Great Plains of North America?

There are several things to consider:
1. Diseases. The Mongols carry diseases the Native Americans are not immune to. Do expect a significant proportion of them to die out of disease although probably not as many as after European arrival.
2. Horses. The Mongols have horses and probably some other animals as well.
3. Iron. The Mongols have iron weapons, armor and tools. These would spread to Native Americans.
4. The alphabet. The Mongol script is already in use by 1206.

In general I expect for the Mongols to spread across all of North America and to conquer everything from Mexico to the East Coast of the US, aided by diseases. When Europeans arrive some 300 years later, I expect all of North America to be filled with Mongol successor states, with Mongolian being the lingua franca across the continent. European conquest will be ompossible due to disease immunity and fierce resistance from the hybrid Mongol-Amerindian culture.

What do you guys think?

  I don't think a European conquest would be impossible because it would depend on what advances - or not - both areas have made.  Especially if a complacent Mongolian empire has fractured and stagnated it might not be much more technologically advanced than it was in 1206 so although a lot tougher its still likely to be going down against gunpowder weapons and other advances.

  That assumes that Europe [and Asia] develops pretty much as OTL.  What are the results of the Mongols suddenly disappearing.  In China, Central Asia, the ME and Europe which will all be greatly impacted.  Without the ability to move freely across so much of the region does the Black death not hit western Asia and Europe or come later and under different circumstances.  A lot of knowledge spread westwards as well which might not occur here and your unlikely to get Marco Polo or possibly any parallel person having such a life.  What happens in the Rus area?  The domination of Kyiv was already declining I think but what sort of state replaces it in the region?

[Otto Kretschmer]

stevep

Still, organized states with iron weapons and armor and cavalry AND immune (even if only partially so) to European diseases will be a much tougher nut to crack for the Europeans than OTL Native Americans were.

The European colonization either falls flat or is limited to pockets on the coasts.

[stevep]

Jun 5, 2024 12:21:40 GMT Otto Kretschmer said:

stevep

Still, organized states with iron weapons and armor and cavalry AND immune (even if only partially so) to European diseases will be a much tougher nut to crack for the Europeans than OTL Native Americans were.

The European colonization either falls flat or is limited to pockets on the coasts.

  Its definitely tougher but a lot depends on what happens in Europe.  If it has the same sort of technology that OTL Europe had in ~1500 and the Mongol successors in N America have largely stagnated not far in advance of their 1206 abilities they will go down but it will take a lot more efforts and costs.  You could end up with something more akin to OTL India and China where European powers ultimately obtain dominance but of a more limited scale without the mass replacement of the native population over much/most of the region.

  In terms of the rest of the Americas similarly it depends on how far and how completely the Mongol's ideas and technology spreads.  The jungles of the isthmus south of Mexico could be a significant barrier and the Mongols as steppe tribes weren't really that adapt at water travel so their probably unlikely to gain political influence into southern America but how much ideas such as metal working and possibly horses travel and who adopts them best could vary wildly.

[raharris1973]

Jun 4, 2024 22:41:15 GMT stevep said:

The domination of Kyiv was already declining I think but what sort of state replaces it in the region?

Vladimir was already becoming the dominant Rus Principality. It was the Principality that housed Moscow, located well to the east and north of Kiev, with a more open-ended frontier to the Volga-Ural frontier.