AHC: non Slavic "Russia"

[Otto Kretschmer]

What potential scenarios can you see for the territory of modern day Russia (or Russia, Belarus and Ukraine) to be non Slavic?

One possibility is Indo Iranian Russia - PoD id around 2000-1500 BC when the Indo Iranian tribes move not just south into India and Iran but also north and east towards the territory of modern day Russia.

What other scenarios can you guys think of?

[stevep]

Jun 10, 2024 7:52:43 GMT Otto Kretschmer said:

What potential scenarios can you see for the territory of modern day Russia (or Russia, Belarus and Ukraine) to be non Slavic?

One possibility is Indo Iranian Russia - PoD id around 2000-1500 BC when the Indo Iranian tribes move not just south into India and Iran but also north and east towards the territory of modern day Russia.

What other scenarios can you guys think of?

  Aren't the Slavs part of the Caucasian language group?  A different part than the present day Iranians and Indians.

  Possibly have the Khazars being more successful or the Turks going north rather than south of the Caspian and Black Sea in the 11thC, although it might be quite a long effort to obtain a majority Turkish identity in the region. 

  I say identity because its unclear how much the present 'Turkish' population of Anatolia are genetically Turkish or possibly at least at part earlier occupants who became Turkish in language and culture and of course became Muslim.  When Ataturk organised the mass expulsion's at the end of the Greeco-Turkish war it was based on religion so you had Turkish speaking Orthodox people being expelled to Greece and Greek speaking Muslims staying which suggests there was a fair amount of cultural and ethnic mixing.

[Otto Kretschmer]

stevep
Slavs are indeed linguisticslly related to Indo Iranians, they both belong to the Indo European language family, but the relationship isn't that close.

Here you can see how the IE languages spread:

By non Slavic I mean linguistically non Slavic, I don't give a damn about genetics.

[stevep]

Jun 10, 2024 12:08:20 GMT Otto Kretschmer said:

stevep
Slavs are indeed linguisticslly related to Indo Iranians, they both belong to the Indo European language family, but the relationship isn't that close.

Here you can see how the IE languages spread:

By non Slavic I mean linguistically non Slavic, I don't give a damn about genetics.

  Interesting.  Looking at that the Slavic language branch was about significantly earlier than I believed before and the Iranian language actually only spread into OTL Iran and then India later than I realised.

[TheRomanSlayer]

Alternatively, you can also have a Turkic superstate that would resemble OTL Russia arising, given that the Central Asian region was at one point dominated by the Cumans. Perhaps a Cuman superstate would arise that succeeds the Gokturk Khaganate?

Another possible scenario that I had in mind is the reversal of the situation that occurred between the Bulgars of Old Great Bulgaria (the predecessor to the medieval OTL Volga Bulgarian state and OTL Danube/today's Bulgaria) and the Khazars. Maybe an unlucky situation happens to the Khazars that leads to Old Great Bulgaria becoming the dominant power in the Pontic steppes and the Khazars end up getting scattered, with one Khazar tribe settling in what is now OTL Azerbaijan, another Khazar tribe ending up in Sogdiana region, and a smaller Khazar tribe ending up in what is now OTL northwestern Afghanistan.

[raharris1973]

Jun 10, 2024 7:52:43 GMT Otto Kretschmer said:

What potential scenarios can you see for the territory of modern day Russia (or Russia, Belarus and Ukraine) to be non Slavic?

One possibility is Indo Iranian Russia - PoD id around 2000-1500 BC when the Indo Iranian tribes move not just south into India and Iran but also north and east towards the territory of modern day Russia.

What other scenarios can you guys think of?

Great Scythia forever?

[raharris1973]

So what's wrong with a Great Scythian state?