lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jul 26, 2024 17:06:19 GMT
I think a Weimar Marine fleet in the 30s would depend a lot on WM diplomacy. If they have a strong chancellor, tensions in Ear Europe are high and the British and French do nothing when Wiemar is bending ore breaking how far they can go, i could see a strong Reichsmarine. |
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1bigrich
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Post by 1bigrich on Jul 26, 2024 17:48:52 GMT
If they have a strong chancellor, tensions in Ear Europe are high and the British and French do nothing when Wiemar is bending ore breaking how far they can go, i could see a strong Reichsmarine. The Weimar republic was hardly made up of angels. They were cheating on the treaty and both von Papen and Schleicher had called for Hindenburg to dissolve the republic and declare a dictatorship. Regards, |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jul 26, 2024 17:52:23 GMT
If they have a strong chancellor, tensions in Ear Europe are high and the British and French do nothing when Wiemar is bending ore breaking how far they can go, i could see a strong Reichsmarine. The Weimar republic was hardly made up of angels. They were cheating on the treaty and both von Papen and Schleicher had called for Hindenburg to dissolve the republic and declare a dictatorship. Regards, Still better than that corporal, but then Hindenburg was not the youngest anymore in the 30s. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jul 26, 2024 21:07:11 GMT
I think a Weimar Marine fleet in the 30s would depend a lot on WM diplomacy. If they have a strong chancellor, tensions in Ear Europe are high and the British and French do nothing when Wiemar is bending ore breaking how far they can go, i could see a strong Reichsmarine.
Possibly but I think that would be a bad error for Germany as it would worsen relations with the chief western powers. Which if the Soviets are beginning to look as a major threat is going to be a dangerously isolated position for them.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jul 26, 2024 21:08:02 GMT
I think it depends on their intent and also what other people knew about them. IIRC there was some argument that they were to secure domination in the Baltic's and some that they and possibly also the later twins were to present a threat to the French in the event of war with them. Not sure how practical the latter is because any conflict between Germany and France is going to be largely continental and also with limited access to the sea and the possible impact on British opinion such a programme would seem unwise.
As such the range the ships actually have seem to be ill-fitting to their alleged purpose v the Soviets as it doesn't fit in with operations in the enclosed and relatively small Baltic Sea and apart from any negative impact on relations with the western powers of a longer range than in itself takes resources/tonnage that could have been used elsewhere in a ship for primary Baltic operations. It depends on what the actual aims of the pre-Hitler government who designed them and possibly their understanding [or not] of the implications of their decisions.
I remember reading somewhere that the German Admiralty prior to WWII - but can't remember how prior though think it was before 1933 - that the way of hitting the British at sea was besides Submarines to be done by long-range raiders. So to some degree they were aiming for that with the design.
I think that was at least partly the intent but I think it was a bad error on their part.
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Post by simon darkshade on Jul 27, 2024 2:38:30 GMT
The issue is that the Soviets were not a naval threat that needed to be matched by Germany.
Their Baltic Fleet, on paper, presents a nominal concern, but not really to anyone worth their salt. Let us examine it:
2 Gangut first generation dreadnoughts laid down in 1909 (Poltava severely damaged by fire in 1919 and never repaired and Sevastopol transferred to the Black Sea Fleet in 1930)
12 Destroyers (Novik/Yakov Sverdlov, Azard/Artem, Lenin, Karl Liebknecht, Rykov, Voikov, Engels, Volodarski, Stalin, Uritski, Karl Marx, Kalinin)
1 Laid up former Imperial yacht
That isn't much to shiver anyone's timbers, let alone require 6 (!) pocket battleships designed for long range commerce raiding in response.
The Reichsmarine/Weimar naval plans were never really about countering a Soviet threat at sea, but about breaking free of Versailles restrictions and an eventual war of vengeance. It isn't just a matter of kill off Hitler and Germany turns into sweetness and light.
Therefore, any "Not Nazi" German naval rearmament will likely take broadly similar general pathways, without the Nazi predilection for certain ship types and philosophies, not to mention in slightly smaller numbers.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jul 27, 2024 8:38:21 GMT
Therefore, any "Not Nazi" German naval rearmament will likely take broadly similar general pathways, without the Nazi predilection for certain ship types and philosophies, not to mention in slightly smaller numbers. So better Reichsmarine management then what we saw from the Kriegsmarine. |
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