WI: Prophet Muhammad converts to Judaism

[Otto Kretschmer]

What if Prophet Muhammad (PBUH*) had converted to Judaism instead of creating Islam?

Let's say he's as successful as OTL and unifies the Arabian Peninsuls at the same time and his successors continue the conquests.

How would the Jewish Empire of Arabs be different from OTL Caliphates?

For sure Halakha and Sharia are relatively similar so social norms would be mostly the same.

It's likely that the Hebrew script would be used for writing the Arabic language instead of Arabic script.

It might also be a possibility that Jews from Europe would migrate in large numbers to this new Jewish polity.

What can you guys think of?

* I'm not a Muslim, just using PBUH as a sign of respect for Muslims.

[stevep]

Jul 29, 2024 7:52:32 GMT Otto Kretschmer said:

What if Prophet Muhammad (PBUH*) had converted to Judaism instead of creating Islam?

Let's say he's as successful as OTL and unifies the Arabian Peninsuls at the same time and his successors continue the conquests.

How would the Jewish Empire of Arabs be different from OTL Caliphates?

For sure Halakha and Sharia are relatively similar so social norms would be mostly the same.

It's likely that the Hebrew script would be used for writing the Arabic language instead of Arabic script.

It might also be a possibility that Jews from Europe would migrate in large numbers to this new Jewish polity.

What can you guys think of?

* I'm not a Muslim, just using PBUH as a sign of respect for Muslims.

  Well you would probably need a major change to Judaism for it to spread as successfully.  That is being willing to allow converts into their faith.  I was thinking possibly taking a leaf out of Christianity as well in not making circumcision a requirement but Islam still managed to expand without rejecting that.

  One other thing is that they would have to be as tolerant as Islam was initially, which was a lot more tolerant than most of the Christian - or to a degree the Zoroastrian sphere - at the time.  Otherwise their going to face continued revolts or at least unrest among the vast majority of the non-Jews they conquer.  Given the nasty history between Judaism and Christianity in the last few centuries that would probably be quite an ask.  Its likely to cause unrest among the Christian tribes in Arabia who were willing to accept terms for submission to Mohammad OTL.  In terms of expansion into wider Christian lands unless their as willing to tolerate Christian populations in a similar way. 

  Jews outside the spreading 'Caliphate' - or whatever it would be called - are likely to be eager to face a lot of persecution in lands still outside its control.

  There is a story I read once, which Muslims of course deny - that at one stage Mohammad was preying towards Jerusalem rather than Mecca and approaches local Jews saying he would fully follow their faith if they would accept him as their Messiah but that they rejected this idea and hence he changed focus to Mecca and went his own.

[Max Sinister]

Even today, it's possible to join Judaism - it just isn't easy, and depends on the community/rabbi.

In the past, it was even easier - otherwise we wouldn't have had the Khazar phenomenon.

[American hist]

I personally think this thread should be closed or at least put in the political section for its controversy.

From someone who has read though not finished Reading the Quran I would call it a message, bipolar On one hand it preaches violence and peace All the same time! While it is true the Bible has some tough verses, I think the Bible holds Better weight.

One must understand the context, the Qurans world And often reading the book better understand who are the people living there. Mohammed, there were the Jews and Christians Living where he did in Arabia along with plenty of pagans.

Muhammad will not be able to Make himself famous In the Jewish religion. Well, if Muhammad had confirmed himself to juadism then the Muslim world would stop eating camels.


Also, unless the Jews Were able to pay off Mohammed To exterminate the Christians Including the messianic Jews Who became extinct Thanks to the Islamic movement under Mohammed command. The messianic jeans were already persecution from Rome Many of whom exile in Arabia

[American hist]

Judaism is as much a heritage as it is a religion, so the Islamic founder would have to say the Christians ultimately are wrong. While some Jews in the modern age consider Jesus to be a prophet, it is a problematic subject to the very mention of Jesus. This pod is not possible in anyway I could forsee .

If this somehow happened, the arab world would, for many years, be pagan , but as already said, there were significant Jewish and Christian communities.

This YouTube video explains more of what I have to say, but from a Christian perspective, the world would be better. During the great prophets time there were many heresy sects of cults that were offshoots of Christianity such as people who believe in Jesus,the Holy spirt and heavenly father are 3 separate people
No Islamic religion means no Sikhism.

[lordroel]

Aug 18, 2024 15:31:09 GMT American hist said:

I personally think this thread should be closed or at least put in the political section for its controversy.

So far i see no reason why this thread should be closed ore moved to Politics and Current Affairs.

Also if a member feels that a thread is not in the right place, please use the report system.

[Max Sinister]

Without being able to prove it, I don't think that a Jewish Arabia would conquer either Eastern Rome or Persia. A three-way split? Will they rather spread Arab culture via the sea - to Eastern Africa and South/Southeast Asia?

[stevep]

Aug 21, 2024 21:33:11 GMT Max Sinister said:

Without being able to prove it, I don't think that a Jewish Arabia would conquer either Eastern Rome or Persia. A three-way split? Will they rather spread Arab culture via the sea - to Eastern Africa and South/Southeast Asia?

  I think even if being more willing to accept converts and more tolerant to religious minorities than the neighbouring empires they could well struggle.  Especially given the history of mutual antagonism between Christianity and Judaism which is going to cause problems both in Arabia and in western conquests.  They could take some significant territories, especially if their as lucky in their timing as Mohammad's successors were OTL with the two old empires and also with some skilled leaders.  I could see them taking much of the former Aramaic lands including Palestine, Syria and Mesopotamia/Iraq and possibly take Egypt but it ends up possibly becoming independent some time later.  This would have the issue however that their basically stuck between Byzantium and Persia and hence in danger of getting the two allying against them.

  However possibly as your say overseas religious expansion by commercial links and also of course slavery when it comes to parts of Africa.