Operation Ten-Go into the fog (1945 to 1941)

[lordroel]

On April 7th 1945, the Japanese battleship Yamato, the light cruiser Yahagi, and eight destroyers (Asashimo, Hamakaze, Isokaze, Suzutsuki, Hatsushimo, Yukikaze, Fuyutsuki, and Kasumi) heading to Okinawa enter a strange fog.

When the fog is cleared the Yamato and here escorts are not in the same place ore time when they left, they have appeared in 1941, at 05:00, 24th May 1941, just 10 kilometers behind HMS Suffolk who just regained contact with Bismarck.

So Yamato sees a British warship, will she fire upon them not knowing they are out of place and out of time and also that they are not in war with the United Kingdom yet.

Also can Yamato handle Prince of Wales and Hood, what will Bismark and the Prinz Eugen do will they move away, try to find out what the heck a Japanese battleship is doing in the Atlantic.

[stevep]

Aug 31, 2024 17:53:34 GMT lordroel said:

On April 7th 1945, the Japanese battleship Yamato, the light cruiser Yahagi, and eight destroyers (Asashimo, Hamakaze, Isokaze, Suzutsuki, Hatsushimo, Yukikaze, Fuyutsuki, and Kasumi) heading to Okinawa enter a strange fog.

When the fog is cleared the Yamato and here escorts are not in the same place ore time when they left, they have appeared in 1941, at 05:00, 24th May 1941, just 10 kilometers behind HMS Suffolk who just regained contact with Bismarck.

So Yamato sees a British warship, will she fire upon them not knowing they are out of place and out of time and also that they are not in war with the United Kingdom yet.

Also can Yamato handle Prince of Wales and Hood, what will Bismark and the Prinz Eugen do will they move away, try to find out what the heck a Japanese battleship is doing in the Atlantic.

  Now that's a weird one.  Very likely Yamato can handle the two British capital ships, with 18" guns the PoW could take quite a pounding and the Hood would be desperately vulnerable.  However wasn't HMS Suffolk tracking Bismarck from behind which would mean that the Germans are between them and the British fleet?

  Assuming that Yamato can tell that the Suffolk is British their likely to open fire on it, although possibly being confused as to the presence of a British ship there.  Possibly also what they can tell about the climate and local conditions as its vastly different from what their expecting on the approaching to Iwo Jima.  Their going to be even more confused  by meeting Bismarck, a ship that to them was sunk 4 years before and from a nation that to them is on the verge of surrender.

  Suffolk is between a rock and a hard place and the relatively narrow water between the ice floats gives them little room for maneuver.  Their going to have a definite WTF moment when they 1st see Yamato both because they will be wondering where it comes from and there will probably be arguments about the accuracy of their radar and visual equipment as "no way can there be a ship that size!".  Coupled with this if they see a IJN ensign and then get fired on.

  One problem that the Japanese have is they probably can't travel far.  Japan was very short of fuel by the time the force sailed and the ships only had enough fuel to reach Iwo Jima with the plan than any of them that reached the island would beach themselves there and use their guns as fire support for the Japanese defenders.  Therefore even if they meet and defeat the British force their going to be stuck in the N Atlantic and their only real option would be to beach themselves on northern Iceland.  Or possibly with the Japanese military's mentality at the time scuttle the ships.  The bulk of the officers are likely to go down with the ship so your going to have some very confused Japanese sailors meeting up with confused Icelanders and probably elements of the American garrison that I think had taken over protection of the island by that time.  Which could well prompt some military clashes and then some confused but angry comments from Washington to Iceland.

  If they do contact the Germans without those units clashing - as both will be uncertain of the other and expecting any other ships to be hostile the latter will be confused and worried by what they hear about the future, both of their own mission and what state Germany is in by April 45.  It would be logical under those circumstances for Bismarck to do an about turn, ideally with some evidence and possibly some officers from the 45 IJN accompanying them.  This could be very, very bad for the allies and especially Britain.  Suspect that Hitler, hearing of the early successes in Russia and confident he can avoid the 'errors the army made' will still attack the USSR but he could well be unwilling to attack the US, at least until either Britain or the USSR are clearly defeated.  Not sure what Tokyo will do if they hear reports from their ambassador in Berlin?

  One bit, if the two avoid shooting at each other and the Yamato's commander is persuaded where and when he is is that he's willing to do a death ride against the British force.  Which would be strategically stupid as it would innitiate a war with Britain and quite possibly the US but could be seen as preserving his 'honour' and could sink or badly damage both RN ships.

  The other option of course is that the IJN and KM end up fighting each other as both are only expecting enemy ships, especially of capital ship size, being encountered.  In this case the Japanese are likely to win given Yamato's size, the number of supporting ships it has and that although the IJN is running on empty its got ~4 years technology on the Germans.  Bismarck is likely crippled if not sunk although Yamato could take some damage and use up a good proportion of its ammo.  - On the latter given it was supposed to be used for supporting the defenders of Iwo Jima I don't know how its mix of AP and HE shells were and there could be a fair amount of the latter.  What the RN will do with confused reports from Suffolk and then possibly of heavy gunfire from ahead but they could head for the action thinking this is something to do with the attack on the Suffolk.  In which case you have them probably turning up on the southern edge of the battle while Bismarck is fighting an enemy to its north. This could well mean a three sided fight although the RN will be concerned if/when they identify an IJN ship both because they won't know which it is, nor how it got there, why its fighting the Germans or realise it is an hostile ship itself in the eyes of the Japanese.

  Overall both militarily and politically this could be an almighty mess for all three nations.

  Anyway initial thoughts but see what other people think.

[lordroel]

Aug 31, 2024 18:38:47 GMT stevep said:

Aug 31, 2024 17:53:34 GMT lordroel said:

On April 7th 1945, the Japanese battleship Yamato, the light cruiser Yahagi, and eight destroyers (Asashimo, Hamakaze, Isokaze, Suzutsuki, Hatsushimo, Yukikaze, Fuyutsuki, and Kasumi) heading to Okinawa enter a strange fog.

When the fog is cleared the Yamato and here escorts are not in the same place ore time when they left, they have appeared in 1941, at 05:00, 24th May 1941, just 10 kilometers behind HMS Suffolk who just regained contact with Bismarck.

So Yamato sees a British warship, will she fire upon them not knowing they are out of place and out of time and also that they are not in war with the United Kingdom yet.

Also can Yamato handle Prince of Wales and Hood, what will Bismark and the Prinz Eugen do will they move away, try to find out what the heck a Japanese battleship is doing in the Atlantic.

  Now that's a weird one.  Very likely Yamato can handle the two British capital ships, with 18" guns the PoW could take quite a pounding and the Hood would be desperately vulnerable.  However wasn't HMS Suffolk tracking Bismarck from behind which would mean that the Germans are between them and the British fleet?

  Assuming that Yamato can tell that the Suffolk is British their likely to open fire on it, although possibly being confused as to the presence of a British ship there.  Possibly also what they can tell about the climate and local conditions as its vastly different from what their expecting on the approaching to Iwo Jima.  Their going to be even more confused  by meeting Bismarck, a ship that to them was sunk 4 years before and from a nation that to them is on the verge of surrender.

  Suffolk is between a rock and a hard place and the relatively narrow water between the ice floats gives them little room for maneuver.  Their going to have a definite WTF moment when they 1st see Yamato both because they will be wondering where it comes from and there will probably be arguments about the accuracy of their radar and visual equipment as "no way can there be a ship that size!".  Coupled with this if they see a IJN ensign and then get fired on.

  One problem that the Japanese have is they probably can't travel far.  Japan was very short of fuel by the time the force sailed and the ships only had enough fuel to reach Iwo Jima with the plan than any of them that reached the island would beach themselves there and use their guns as fire support for the Japanese defenders.  Therefore even if they meet and defeat the British force their going to be stuck in the N Atlantic and their only real option would be to beach themselves on northern Iceland.  Or possibly with the Japanese military's mentality at the time scuttle the ships.  The bulk of the officers are likely to go down with the ship so your going to have some very confused Japanese sailors meeting up with confused Icelanders and probably elements of the American garrison that I think had taken over protection of the island by that time.  Which could well prompt some military clashes and then some confused but angry comments from Washington to Iceland.

  If they do contact the Germans without those units clashing - as both will be uncertain of the other and expecting any other ships to be hostile the latter will be confused and worried by what they hear about the future, both of their own mission and what state Germany is in by April 45.  It would be logical under those circumstances for Bismarck to do an about turn, ideally with some evidence and possibly some officers from the 45 IJN accompanying them.  This could be very, very bad for the allies and especially Britain.  Suspect that Hitler, hearing of the early successes in Russia and confident he can avoid the 'errors the army made' will still attack the USSR but he could well be unwilling to attack the US, at least until either Britain or the USSR are clearly defeated.  Not sure what Tokyo will do if they hear reports from their ambassador in Berlin?

  One bit, if the two avoid shooting at each other and the Yamato's commander is persuaded where and when he is is that he's willing to do a death ride against the British force.  Which would be strategically stupid as it would innitiate a war with Britain and quite possibly the US but could be seen as preserving his 'honour' and could sink or badly damage both RN ships.

  The other option of course is that the IJN and KM end up fighting each other as both are only expecting enemy ships, especially of capital ship size, being encountered.  In this case the Japanese are likely to win given Yamato's size, the number of supporting ships it has and that although the IJN is running on empty its got ~4 years technology on the Germans.  Bismarck is likely crippled if not sunk although Yamato could take some damage and use up a good proportion of its ammo.  - On the latter given it was supposed to be used for supporting the defenders of Iwo Jima I don't know how its mix of AP and HE shells were and there could be a fair amount of the latter.  What the RN will do with confused reports from Suffolk and then possibly of heavy gunfire from ahead but they could head for the action thinking this is something to do with the attack on the Suffolk.  In which case you have them probably turning up on the southern edge of the battle while Bismarck is fighting an enemy to its north. This could well mean a three sided fight although the RN will be concerned if/when they identify an IJN ship both because they won't know which it is, nor how it got there, why its fighting the Germans or realise it is an hostile ship itself in the eyes of the Japanese.

  Overall both militarily and politically this could be an almighty mess for all three nations.

  Anyway initial thoughts but see what other people think.

So Yamato does not have enough fuel to reach a French port, this means she is a sitting duck when the Royal Navy comes in full strength i assume.

[stevep]

Aug 31, 2024 18:46:16 GMT lordroel said:

Aug 31, 2024 18:38:47 GMT stevep said:

  Now that's a weird one.  Very likely Yamato can handle the two British capital ships, with 18" guns the PoW could take quite a pounding and the Hood would be desperately vulnerable.  However wasn't HMS Suffolk tracking Bismarck from behind which would mean that the Germans are between them and the British fleet?

  Assuming that Yamato can tell that the Suffolk is British their likely to open fire on it, although possibly being confused as to the presence of a British ship there.  Possibly also what they can tell about the climate and local conditions as its vastly different from what their expecting on the approaching to Iwo Jima.  Their going to be even more confused  by meeting Bismarck, a ship that to them was sunk 4 years before and from a nation that to them is on the verge of surrender.

  Suffolk is between a rock and a hard place and the relatively narrow water between the ice floats gives them little room for maneuver.  Their going to have a definite WTF moment when they 1st see Yamato both because they will be wondering where it comes from and there will probably be arguments about the accuracy of their radar and visual equipment as "no way can there be a ship that size!".  Coupled with this if they see a IJN ensign and then get fired on.

  One problem that the Japanese have is they probably can't travel far.  Japan was very short of fuel by the time the force sailed and the ships only had enough fuel to reach Iwo Jima with the plan than any of them that reached the island would beach themselves there and use their guns as fire support for the Japanese defenders.  Therefore even if they meet and defeat the British force their going to be stuck in the N Atlantic and their only real option would be to beach themselves on northern Iceland.  Or possibly with the Japanese military's mentality at the time scuttle the ships.  The bulk of the officers are likely to go down with the ship so your going to have some very confused Japanese sailors meeting up with confused Icelanders and probably elements of the American garrison that I think had taken over protection of the island by that time.  Which could well prompt some military clashes and then some confused but angry comments from Washington to Iceland.

  If they do contact the Germans without those units clashing - as both will be uncertain of the other and expecting any other ships to be hostile the latter will be confused and worried by what they hear about the future, both of their own mission and what state Germany is in by April 45.  It would be logical under those circumstances for Bismarck to do an about turn, ideally with some evidence and possibly some officers from the 45 IJN accompanying them.  This could be very, very bad for the allies and especially Britain.  Suspect that Hitler, hearing of the early successes in Russia and confident he can avoid the 'errors the army made' will still attack the USSR but he could well be unwilling to attack the US, at least until either Britain or the USSR are clearly defeated.  Not sure what Tokyo will do if they hear reports from their ambassador in Berlin?

  One bit, if the two avoid shooting at each other and the Yamato's commander is persuaded where and when he is is that he's willing to do a death ride against the British force.  Which would be strategically stupid as it would innitiate a war with Britain and quite possibly the US but could be seen as preserving his 'honour' and could sink or badly damage both RN ships.

  The other option of course is that the IJN and KM end up fighting each other as both are only expecting enemy ships, especially of capital ship size, being encountered.  In this case the Japanese are likely to win given Yamato's size, the number of supporting ships it has and that although the IJN is running on empty its got ~4 years technology on the Germans.  Bismarck is likely crippled if not sunk although Yamato could take some damage and use up a good proportion of its ammo.  - On the latter given it was supposed to be used for supporting the defenders of Iwo Jima I don't know how its mix of AP and HE shells were and there could be a fair amount of the latter.  What the RN will do with confused reports from Suffolk and then possibly of heavy gunfire from ahead but they could head for the action thinking this is something to do with the attack on the Suffolk.  In which case you have them probably turning up on the southern edge of the battle while Bismarck is fighting an enemy to its north. This could well mean a three sided fight although the RN will be concerned if/when they identify an IJN ship both because they won't know which it is, nor how it got there, why its fighting the Germans or realise it is an hostile ship itself in the eyes of the Japanese.

  Overall both militarily and politically this could be an almighty mess for all three nations.

  Anyway initial thoughts but see what other people think.

So Yamato does not have enough fuel to reach a French port, this means she is a sitting duck when the Royal Navy comes in full strength i assume.

  As long as she's got ammo she's dangerous but depending on how much the RN knows the best thing would be to take out covering ships by air power and then air and subs to finish her off.  Or as I say, since the Japanese know they don't have much fuel and when that's gone they can't even direct the movements of the ship they could end up either scuttling her - to avoid capture - or beaching her.

  I would say Norway would be nearer but I doubt she could reach there either.

[lordroel]

Aug 31, 2024 18:49:46 GMT stevep said:

Aug 31, 2024 18:46:16 GMT lordroel said:

So Yamato does not have enough fuel to reach a French port, this means she is a sitting duck when the Royal Navy comes in full strength i assume.

  As long as she's got ammo she's dangerous but depending on how much the RN knows the best thing would be to take out covering ships by air power and then air and subs to finish her off.  Or as I say, since the Japanese know they don't have much fuel and when that's gone they can't even direct the movements of the ship they could end up either scuttling her - to avoid capture - or beaching her.

  I would say Norway would be nearer but I doubt she could reach there either.

Found this:

At midnight, the ships were fueled. Reportedly, in secret defiance of orders to provide the ships with only just enough fuel to reach Okinawa, the Tokuyama personnel actually gave Yamato and the other ships almost all of the remaining fuel in the port, although this probably still was not enough to allow the force to return to Japan from Okinawa.

Yamato was sunk 289 kilometers southwest of the island of Kyushu, the distance of Kyushu to Okinawa is 833 km, if we say she had here tanks full then she would still have a range of 13,000 km at 16 knots.

This coming from Quora: How fast could an IJN Yamato make knots? How far could she travel in one day or night? For example, could she travel from Japan to Hawaii?, means she can reach France.

At its top speed of 27 knots, the Yamato could theoretically travel approximately 648 nautical miles (1,200 km) in a 24-hour period. However, this would require burning huge amounts of fuel and would not be sustainable for long-distance voyages.

[575]

When the presence of hostile IJN ships in the North Atlantic have been verified will PM Churchill inform Mr. Momoru Shigemitsu that Britain is at War with Japan?
How will this influece the proceeding of the War? At least Britain have been alerted to the threat of Japan.
As 1bigrich referred to in the thread on Chaotic start of WW2 in the Pacific the IJN isn't yet ready for going to war lacking two Fleet Carriers and transistion to the Zero.

[lordroel]

Sept 1, 2024 9:05:10 GMT 575 said:

When the presence of hostile IJN ships in the North Atlantic have been verified will PM Churchill inform Mr. Momoru Shigemitsu that Britain is at War with Japan?
How will this influece the proceeding of the War? At least Britain have been alerted to the threat of Japan.
As 1bigrich referred to in the thread on Chaotic start of WW2 in the Pacific the IJN isn't yet ready for going to war lacking two Fleet Carriers and transistion to the Zero.

Can the United Kingdom handle a war on two fronts without the United States.

[stevep]

Aug 31, 2024 19:02:56 GMT lordroel said:

Aug 31, 2024 18:49:46 GMT stevep said:

  As long as she's got ammo she's dangerous but depending on how much the RN knows the best thing would be to take out covering ships by air power and then air and subs to finish her off.  Or as I say, since the Japanese know they don't have much fuel and when that's gone they can't even direct the movements of the ship they could end up either scuttling her - to avoid capture - or beaching her.

  I would say Norway would be nearer but I doubt she could reach there either.

Found this:

At midnight, the ships were fueled. Reportedly, in secret defiance of orders to provide the ships with only just enough fuel to reach Okinawa, the Tokuyama personnel actually gave Yamato and the other ships almost all of the remaining fuel in the port, although this probably still was not enough to allow the force to return to Japan from Okinawa.

Yamato was sunk 289 kilometers southwest of the island of Kyushu, the distance of Kyushu to Okinawa is 833 km, if we say she had here tanks full then she would still have a range of 13,000 km at 16 knots.

This coming from Quora: How fast could an IJN Yamato make knots? How far could she travel in one day or night? For example, could she travel from Japan to Hawaii?, means she can reach France.

At its top speed of 27 knots, the Yamato could theoretically travel approximately 648 nautical miles (1,200 km) in a 24-hour period. However, this would require burning huge amounts of fuel and would not be sustainable for long-distance voyages.

  Interesting thanks and worrying as that could change a lot.  If Yamato reached either Norway or worst still France and could be supplied - might be issues with spares and munitions once Barbarossa kicks off - that would be a huge threat to the N Atlantic route.

  Must admit I hadn't checked and thought the mission was to Iwo Jima rather than Okinawa which is considerably further away. 

[lordroel]

Sept 1, 2024 9:32:45 GMT stevep said:

Aug 31, 2024 19:02:56 GMT lordroel said:

Found this:

At midnight, the ships were fueled. Reportedly, in secret defiance of orders to provide the ships with only just enough fuel to reach Okinawa, the Tokuyama personnel actually gave Yamato and the other ships almost all of the remaining fuel in the port, although this probably still was not enough to allow the force to return to Japan from Okinawa.

Yamato was sunk 289 kilometers southwest of the island of Kyushu, the distance of Kyushu to Okinawa is 833 km, if we say she had here tanks full then she would still have a range of 13,000 km at 16 knots.

This coming from Quora: How fast could an IJN Yamato make knots? How far could she travel in one day or night? For example, could she travel from Japan to Hawaii?, means she can reach France.

At its top speed of 27 knots, the Yamato could theoretically travel approximately 648 nautical miles (1,200 km) in a 24-hour period. However, this would require burning huge amounts of fuel and would not be sustainable for long-distance voyages.

  Interesting thanks and worrying as that could change a lot.  If Yamato reached either Norway or worst still France and could be supplied - might be issues with spares and munitions once Barbarossa kicks off - that would be a huge threat to the N Atlantic route.

  Must admit I hadn't checked and thought the mission was to Iwo Jima rather than Okinawa which is considerably further away. 

But first Yamato and escorts and the Bismarck and Prinz Eugen after lets say having sunk HMS Suffolk, HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Hood (HMS Norfolk survived) have to go head to head with HMS Ark Royal, HMS King George V, HMS Rodney, 2 heavy cruisers and 8 destroyers, unless the British wondering what happen in the first battle keep their distance until they have figured out what happen and ore if possible call in reinforcements.

[stevep]

Sept 1, 2024 9:08:35 GMT lordroel said:

Sept 1, 2024 9:05:10 GMT 575 said:

When the presence of hostile IJN ships in the North Atlantic have been verified will PM Churchill inform Mr. Momoru Shigemitsu that Britain is at War with Japan?
How will this influece the proceeding of the War? At least Britain have been alerted to the threat of Japan.
As 1bigrich referred to in the thread on Chaotic start of WW2 in the Pacific the IJN isn't yet ready for going to war lacking two Fleet Carriers and transistion to the Zero.

Can the United Kingdom handle a war on two fronts without the United States.

  Well its more than two fronts with the Med/N Africa involved and now potentially the Far East but without the US I would say no, even with the Soviets due to be attacked shortly.  However in those circumstances can FDR bring the US in?  If Yamato gets away probably not.  If it ends up scuttled/beached and prisoners taken which give information on the war they were engaged in then possibly as that would give hard evidence including at least some awareness of Pearl Harbour and the Philippines.

  Japan would be caught unaware but Britain is even more unprepared, especially with disaster in Greece/Crete and defeat in Libya under way. 

  Assuming we're dealing with parallel universes here then this Yamato is from one and now in another so this world's Japan have another under construction, which would add to the complexity.

[stevep]

Sept 1, 2024 9:05:10 GMT 575 said:

When the presence of hostile IJN ships in the North Atlantic have been verified will PM Churchill inform Mr. Momoru Shigemitsu that Britain is at War with Japan?
How will this influece the proceeding of the War? At least Britain have been alerted to the threat of Japan.
As 1bigrich referred to in the thread on Chaotic start of WW2 in the Pacific the IJN isn't yet ready for going to war lacking two Fleet Carriers and transistion to the Zero.

  If its clear its a Japanese ship then at the very least questions will be raised.  Both London and probably even more so Tokyo will be very confused by the reports from the N Atlantic.

[lordroel]

Sept 1, 2024 9:38:51 GMT stevep said:

  Assuming we're dealing with parallel universes here then this Yamato is from one and now in another so this world's Japan have another under construction, which would add to the complexity.

Lets say it is a parallel universes in one universe where the 1945 Yamato comes from the Americans claim to sink here as to cover up why they lost here and this one.

[stevep]

Sept 1, 2024 9:37:36 GMT lordroel said:

Sept 1, 2024 9:32:45 GMT stevep said:

  Interesting thanks and worrying as that could change a lot.  If Yamato reached either Norway or worst still France and could be supplied - might be issues with spares and munitions once Barbarossa kicks off - that would be a huge threat to the N Atlantic route.

  Must admit I hadn't checked and thought the mission was to Iwo Jima rather than Okinawa which is considerably further away. 

But first Yamato and escorts and the Bismarck and Prinz Eugen after lets say having sunk HMS Suffolk, HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Hood (HMS Norfolk survived) have to go head to head with HMS Ark Royal, HMS King George V, HMS Rodney, 2 heavy cruisers and 8 destroyers, unless the British wondering what happen in the first battle keep their distance until they have figured out what happen and ore if possible call in reinforcements.

  If they do sink both Hood and PoW then I think the RN forces would have to engage if they can as the perceived threat would be too great.  Plus here, unless there has been some [un]friendly fire between Bismarck and Yamato 1st because of their position then Bismarck is likely to avoid a lot of the OTL damage.  Although if an air strike from Ark Royal manages to get a lucky hit as OTL that could aid things.  However likely Rodney, because of her relatively slow speed is likely to be sunk while KGV should be able to escape.  However as well as a very powerful new ship emerging to pose an additional threat and the loss of three capital ships including two fast ones is a devastating blow for an already over-stretched Britain.  Let alone the potential resulting problems in the far east.

[lordroel]

Sept 1, 2024 9:45:40 GMT stevep said:

Sept 1, 2024 9:37:36 GMT lordroel said:

But first Yamato and escorts and the Bismarck and Prinz Eugen after lets say having sunk HMS Suffolk, HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Hood (HMS Norfolk survived) have to go head to head with HMS Ark Royal, HMS King George V, HMS Rodney, 2 heavy cruisers and 8 destroyers, unless the British wondering what happen in the first battle keep their distance until they have figured out what happen and ore if possible call in reinforcements.

  If they do sink both Hood and PoW then I think the RN forces would have to engage if they can as the perceived threat would be too great.  Plus here, unless there has been some [un]friendly fire between Bismarck and Yamato 1st because of their position then Bismarck is likely to avoid a lot of the OTL damage.  Although if an air strike from Ark Royal manages to get a lucky hit as OTL that could aid things.  However likely Rodney, because of her relatively slow speed is likely to be sunk while KGV should be able to escape.  However as well as a very powerful new ship emerging to pose an additional threat and the loss of three capital ships including two fast ones is a devastating blow for an already over-stretched Britain.  Let alone the potential resulting problems in the far east.

True, their might be a change of the Bismarck and Yamato firing at each other until things have sorted out, Yamato knows about Bismarck but Bismarck does not know about Yamato, only rumors as of 1941: "What did the USN know about Yamato and when?"

[stevep]

Sept 1, 2024 9:54:06 GMT lordroel said:

Sept 1, 2024 9:45:40 GMT stevep said:

  If they do sink both Hood and PoW then I think the RN forces would have to engage if they can as the perceived threat would be too great.  Plus here, unless there has been some [un]friendly fire between Bismarck and Yamato 1st because of their position then Bismarck is likely to avoid a lot of the OTL damage.  Although if an air strike from Ark Royal manages to get a lucky hit as OTL that could aid things.  However likely Rodney, because of her relatively slow speed is likely to be sunk while KGV should be able to escape.  However as well as a very powerful new ship emerging to pose an additional threat and the loss of three capital ships including two fast ones is a devastating blow for an already over-stretched Britain.  Let alone the potential resulting problems in the far east.

True, their might be a change of the Bismarck and Yamato firing at each other until things have sorted out, Yamato knows about Bismarck but Bismarck does not know about Yamato, only rumors as of 1941: "What did the USN know about Yamato and when?"

  Yes there was a lot of confusion about the size and other attributes of the ship, partly due to Japanese attempts to disguise their huge size and partly because so many people thought such giants were impractical, either overall or for the Japanese to be able to construct.  Here more details will probably be discovered more quickly because of battle reports and photos from aircraft during the hunt.  Its going to be a huge shock to the British and Americans.  Might see a push for the Montana's or some similar class to be completed - although whether that would supplant any plans for the Iowa's or be alongside them but then I don't know what US shipyard capacity was at the time.  At worst a reaction due to their size and the limited impact so far by carrier attacks the US cuts back on planned carrier production somewhat.