Argentina in the Axis?

[kubocaskett]

I know this sounds cliché to some of you AH enthusiasts but frankly I like the idea of a world war being fought additionally in Latin America, which as far we know, had little to no participation in both world wars, with the exception of Brazil in both of them and a few other countries in WWII.

So anyway, with a POD no later than 1930, the year the coup happened that brought down the democratic government and is notably the first coup in Argentine history (which later served as the foundation for later coups being the "solution" to government problems), how can it be possible for Argentina to join the Axis and somehow put up a fight in Latin America or at least be co-belligerents with the Axis powers?

[kubocaskett]

No takers?

[lordroel]

Aug 17, 2016 0:53:14 GMT kubocaskett said:

No takers?

Would they try to invade the Falklands islands.

[stevep]

As I said on the other site:- I would say its possible but pretty unlikely. Argentina has an imperial claim on the Falklands but is highly dependent on British investment and Britain is probably its largest export market. Also any signs that Germany would gain a presence/alliance in Latin America is not only going to be opposed by Brazil and Chile, Argentina's traditional opponents but also by the US. As such I think any such move by an Argentian government would be suicidal and recognised as such by the vast majority of the population. Even without the US it would be virtually impossible for any aid to Argetina from Germany in the face of the RN so it would be very exposed.

Argentina might try attacking the Falklands, especially since say in late 40/early 41 the RN is stretched and Argentina had a fair sized fleet, including a couple of BBs IIRC. [Although not sure when those ships, originally built in the US ~1914 had been upgraded]. Its the obvious target to try and moblise opinion behind the regime, along with possible actions against British funds although the latter is likely to backfire in terms of the impact on the Argentinian economy.

However as well as very likely prompting a reaction from Churchill, especially if before Dec 41, it would very likely prompt a strong response from the US that both wants to help Britain resist the Nazis and doesn't want either warfare or Nazi influence in what they consider as their back yard.

[lordroel]

Aug 17, 2016 13:39:39 GMT stevep said:

As I said on the other site:- I would say its possible but pretty unlikely. Argentina has an imperial claim on the Falklands but is highly dependent on British investment and Britain is probably its largest export market. Also any signs that Germany would gain a presence/alliance in Latin America is not only going to be opposed by Brazil and Chile, Argentina's traditional opponents but also by the US. As such I think any such move by an Argentian government would be suicidal and recognised as such by the vast majority of the population. Even without the US it would be virtually impossible for any aid to Argetina from Germany in the face of the RN so it would be very exposed.

Argentina might try attacking the Falklands, especially since say in late 40/early 41 the RN is stretched and Argentina had a fair sized fleet, including a couple of BBs IIRC. [Although not sure when those ships, originally built in the US ~1914 had been upgraded]. Its the obvious target to try and moblise opinion behind the regime, along with possible actions against British funds although the latter is likely to backfire in terms of the impact on the Argentinian economy.

However as well as very likely prompting a reaction from Churchill, especially if before Dec 41, it would very likely prompt a strong response from the US that both wants to help Britain resist the Nazis and doesn't want either warfare or Nazi influence in what they consider as their back yard.

I would think Brazil and Chile wouldn't like Argentina joining the Axis, not does the United States who would fear the prospect of a U-boat base in Argentina as that could pose a risk to American shipping, to which Roosevelt would have to respond.

[kubocaskett]

Aug 17, 2016 2:49:46 GMT lordroel said:

Aug 17, 2016 0:53:14 GMT kubocaskett said:

No takers?

Would they try to invade the Falklands islands.

Well maybe yes if they want to prove their allegiance to the Axis, that or just get the whole dispute over that island over with.

Aug 17, 2016 13:39:39 GMT stevep said:

As I said on the other site:- I would say its possible but pretty unlikely. Argentina has an imperial claim on the Falklands but is highly dependent on British investment and Britain is probably its largest export market. Also any signs that Germany would gain a presence/alliance in Latin America is not only going to be opposed by Brazil and Chile, Argentina's traditional opponents but also by the US. As such I think any such move by an Argentian government would be suicidal and recognised as such by the vast majority of the population. Even without the US it would be virtually impossible for any aid to Argetina from Germany in the face of the RN so it would be very exposed.

Argentina might try attacking the Falklands, especially since say in late 40/early 41 the RN is stretched and Argentina had a fair sized fleet, including a couple of BBs IIRC. [Although not sure when those ships, originally built in the US ~1914 had been upgraded]. Its the obvious target to try and moblise opinion behind the regime, along with possible actions against British funds although the latter is likely to backfire in terms of the impact on the Argentinian economy.

However as well as very likely prompting a reaction from Churchill, especially if before Dec 41, it would very likely prompt a strong response from the US that both wants to help Britain resist the Nazis and doesn't want either warfare or Nazi influence in what they consider as their back yard.

Even so, the fact that WWII would be fought in Latin America would definitely lead to a lot of butterflies.

Matter of fact, I'm referring to something like the Platinean War TL that may or may not be ASB: here

What I'm asking is how can this kind of situation be plausibly achieved at the very least?

[lordroel]

Aug 17, 2016 23:01:02 GMT kubocaskett said:

Aug 17, 2016 2:49:46 GMT lordroel said:

Would they try to invade the Falklands islands.

Well maybe yes if they want to prove their allegiance to the Axis, that or just get the whole dispute over that island over with.

Aug 17, 2016 13:39:39 GMT stevep said:

As I said on the other site:- I would say its possible but pretty unlikely. Argentina has an imperial claim on the Falklands but is highly dependent on British investment and Britain is probably its largest export market. Also any signs that Germany would gain a presence/alliance in Latin America is not only going to be opposed by Brazil and Chile, Argentina's traditional opponents but also by the US. As such I think any such move by an Argentian government would be suicidal and recognised as such by the vast majority of the population. Even without the US it would be virtually impossible for any aid to Argetina from Germany in the face of the RN so it would be very exposed.

Argentina might try attacking the Falklands, especially since say in late 40/early 41 the RN is stretched and Argentina had a fair sized fleet, including a couple of BBs IIRC. [Although not sure when those ships, originally built in the US ~1914 had been upgraded]. Its the obvious target to try and moblise opinion behind the regime, along with possible actions against British funds although the latter is likely to backfire in terms of the impact on the Argentinian economy.

However as well as very likely prompting a reaction from Churchill, especially if before Dec 41, it would very likely prompt a strong response from the US that both wants to help Britain resist the Nazis and doesn't want either warfare or Nazi influence in what they consider as their back yard.

Even so, the fact that WWII would be fought in Latin America would definitely lead to a lot of butterflies.

Matter of fact, I'm referring to something like the Platinean War TL that may or may not be ASB: here

What I'm asking is how can this kind of situation be plausibly achieved at the very least?

Depends is Argentina led by a fascism government or who came in power in the 1930s ore was it a military coup.

[kubocaskett]

Aug 18, 2016 2:58:54 GMT lordroel said:

Aug 17, 2016 23:01:02 GMT kubocaskett said:

Well maybe yes if they want to prove their allegiance to the Axis, that or just get the whole dispute over that island over with.

Even so, the fact that WWII would be fought in Latin America would definitely lead to a lot of butterflies.

Matter of fact, I'm referring to something like the Platinean War TL that may or may not be ASB: here

What I'm asking is how can this kind of situation be plausibly achieved at the very least?

Depends is Argentina led by a fascism government or who came in power in the 1930s ore was it a military coup.

I think a fascist government (that's more so than the regime during OTL's 1930s) would do the trick, especially in a TL where the 1930 coup fails but it doesn't stop opposition to the declining democratic government.

[lordroel]

Aug 18, 2016 3:41:42 GMT kubocaskett said:

Aug 18, 2016 2:58:54 GMT lordroel said:

Depends is Argentina led by a fascism government or who came in power in the 1930s ore was it a military coup.

I think a fascist government (that's more so than the regime during OTL's 1930s) would do the trick, especially in a TL where the 1930 coup fails but it doesn't stop opposition to the declining democratic government.

Still wonder what the United States reaction will be, they probably do not like a Fascism country in what they regard as their backyard.

[kubocaskett]

Aug 18, 2016 3:47:56 GMT lordroel said:

Aug 18, 2016 3:41:42 GMT kubocaskett said:

I think a fascist government (that's more so than the regime during OTL's 1930s) would do the trick, especially in a TL where the 1930 coup fails but it doesn't stop opposition to the declining democratic government.

Still wonder what the United States reaction will be, they probably do not like a Fascism country in what they regard as their backyard.

Probably not well, but might deal with it for as long as it doesn't cosy up to the Axis and keep the commies within Argentine soil; it's the same with Brazil except that didn't have a fascist regime.

[lordroel]

Aug 18, 2016 3:56:11 GMT kubocaskett said:

Aug 18, 2016 3:47:56 GMT lordroel said:

Still wonder what the United States reaction will be, they probably do not like a Fascism country in what they regard as their backyard.

Probably not well, but might deal with it for as long as it doesn't cosy up to the Axis and keep the commies within Argentine soil; it's the same with Brazil except that didn't have a fascist regime.

Well if it is a democratic elected government in Argentina that is Fascist then the United States can not do much, maybe the United States will increase relation with Chili to counter a German friendly Argentina.