Red Dawn 20+ AH.com archive

[lordroel]

From page 90

TheMann

Panzerfaust 150 said: ↑
Mexican MiG-25s? Christ...Mann, can you send stills from your gun camera footage? The Intel people here are having kittens hearing this. Not that the Mexican AF is going to make them any more effective..I wouldn't be surprised if they were "acquired" from the Soviets post-ceasefire when the aircrews might have been only too happy to run home and leave the Mexicans the keys.
They have the gun camera footage, and I saw it. A big-ass twin-tail, with a long nose, wings far too small for a Flanker, and its far too big for a Fulcrum. It had a god-awfully huge heat signature, too, my Sidewinder got a lock on the bastard nearly ten miles from it, and its radar had an immense power output, which is how I picked him up in the first place. That all spells a Foxbat. I wouldn't be surprised if it was left behind by the Soviets.

Panzerfaust 150 said: ↑
So, guys, no telling what you might be running into. Some of my fellow blue suited spooks thought this might be a possibility but the thought was, 20 years after the war, what was still flyable?
A couple of other crews have downed -19s, and one even had a -17 try to come after him, all looking more like a flying coffin than anything else.

Anyways, my crews got a run on Mexico City, too. One of the targets for my Varks was a radio station the lefties were using. Somebody read our minds, it seems. Needless to say, three 2000-lb JDAMs later and its little more than brick rubble. Unfortunately, one of the 33d Wing F-111 crews got hit by AAA, 57mm and it looked like it hit the underside of the cockpit, and the plane crashed into a natural gas transfer site, causing several large explosions, big enough ones that I saw 'em from 40 miles away. I hope God is with anybody nearby when those things went up.

Apparently the Rangers had a good day too, they got the big refinery in Villahermosa, which when combined with the gunboats shelling the shit out of Veracruz means Mexico is gonna be out of the oil business. Hopefully they we take the Yucatan and all of the Bahia de Campeche coastline and be done with it. And yeah, I'd like to see Abrams tanks in Mexico City, but its a long way from home.

Anyways, I gotta go. Another mission briefing in twenty-five minutes, and I gotta shower first. Good luck to my other brothers in the military, and let's all bring all of us home safely.

Matt Wiser

Well, the Marines landed at Tampico and took the oil tanker terminal, and started pushing north to meet up with VIII Corps. New Jersey and Des Moines have been tossing shells whenever the Marines encounter serious resistance, and the Mexican resistance melts like ice cream in the sun. Nobody wants to be on the receiving end of those 16-inch and 8-inch shells, period. CNN says the beach wasn't hot, and the Mexicans weren't expecting an amphib landing that far south. No beach defenses, and the Mexicans' Brigade Tampico got caught still in their garrison by the air and naval gunfire prep. III Corps is now within 25 miles of Monterrey, VIII Corps is about a hundred miles from the Marine beachhead, and so on. Anyone want to bet that once we get to those initial objectives we halt and dig in, and then tell the Mexicans "If you want those back, either try and take them, or live up to your Armistice obligations?"

Three missions today, and all of 'em were into Central Mexico. First off was a dawn strike on Mexico City-this time it was the main railroad marshaling yard and a nearby fuel depot. Some AAA, but the SAMs seem to be gone, and the Juraez IAP runways are still closed-those craters will take a while to fill in. There were four MiG-21s from Santa Clara AB east of the capital, but the Albino Eagles got all four of 'em. Someone needs to take down that field before one of our guys or gals gets hit by a lucky MiG..but I digress. The second was to Guadajalara and an explosives plant-man, those things really do go very high when you blow them-and we got rocked by the shock wave after pullout. That one had an SA-2 site go active, but the Weasels were on it, and those SAM operators never had a chance to fire, as they got HARMed, then hit by CBU-87s. Someone got to the international airport, as the MiG-23s there were grounded due to multiple craters in the runway-I'll bet the Navy was there before us.
The last one was also to Mexico City, and it was a two-ship only. My wingie and I went in on the main radio/TV transmitters with four GBU-10 laser bombs each, and those towers came apart like someone ripped apart an erector set. We were in and out so fast, the defense (such as it is now) didn't have time to react. The CNN crew has their own equipment, and their reports give instant BDA, or so the intel folks say.

The statehood party's going on, and the locals don't mind the military presence at all. Even though we're not staying there, the La Paz Sheraton invited the military in at a discount for the New Year's/Statehood bash, and all the squadron and wing COs are going, and those pilots and crew not on the flight schedule first thing in the morning are going as well. Just as long as we remember the 12-hour rule!

TheMann

My Varks got a rest today, though I was busy. Somebody had reported sighting of more Mexican AF planes around Monterrey, so up we went to sort it out before a BUFF strike came in. Sure enough, four MiG-21s came up and got blown to bit before they got anywhere near the bombers. The bombers proceeded to hit the Mexican Army's Northeastern HQ. 16 bombers, 81 500-pound bombs per. Nothing left there but concrete dust, I suspect, and I have another star for my F-22. And VIII Corps will probably have an easier time now that their C&C is well and truly fucked up.

That southern girl with my squadron is cleaning up, too - she got two today, bringing her total to five from this war. My squadron had a bit of a party tonight to celebrate her making ace. She told all of us that it was still feeling a bit hollow, F-22 against a MiG-21 isn't really a fair fight. The squadron XO answered that saying "they should have paid up, then!" Can't say I disagree. It looks like I'll have tommorrow off, which is good. The 33d is on deck, and they are right pissed after the loss of that Vark in Mexico City from AAA. I hope the Mexican AF is smart enough to not play with 'em, because the wing commander there tonight sounded like Dirty Harry. He REALLY wants to blast some Mexican AF guys.

Matt Wiser

Hey Mann, was that you guys who blew the main Mexico City oil refinery on Day One? There were some F-111s and F-22s there before that place went up-and I do mean up-like a volcano. We were just getting off target at the international airport when the oil refinery blew, and I'm wondering if that was your wing who did the job. And we saw the Varks pulling out and away, and I do know they saw us as we headed back west to the Pacific Coast and the tankers. If that wing CO wants revenge, send him down to Santa Clara AB east of Mexico City: the MiGs we ran into today over the capital came from there.

So we've got our first ace of this fight. Kelly Ann had a big party last night to celebrate her getting #5, even though it took her twenty-plus years to get to that magic number. And yes, the flight surgeons are enforcing the 12-hour rule with a vengeance.

Anyone run into any Cubans? There supposedly was a military advisory group that Fidel sent to Mexico a few years after the Armistice (in violation, again), and a rumor's going around that most of the MiGs we're facing have Cuban pilots. Since we settled scores with Cuba earlier, those guys have nowhere to go, so they have nothing to lose and may want to take more than a few of us with 'em. If they're there, be careful, people.

CNN just showed IV Corps pushing into Hermosillo-they had a serious fight about forty miles north of the city between 5th Armored and a brigade-plus of T-62s and BMPs on the other. 10th ACR, though, just went around the Mexicans and rolled on into the city-took it without a shot being fired. X Corps in Baja didn't get invited, but they're watching to see what happens. The 27th Marines still aren't getting ready for anything serious, though they're patrolling along the beaches and in La Paz proper. Looks like the Western theater has its objectives nearly wrapped up-though no one's been to Kimo Bay just yet on the east side of the Gulf of California.

TheMann

Matt Wiser said: ↑
Hey Mann, was that you guys who blew the main Mexico City oil refinery on Day One? There were some F-111s and F-22s there before that place went up-and I do mean up-like a volcano. We were just getting off target at the international airport when the oil refinery blew, and I'm wondering if that was your wing who did the job. And we saw the Varks pulling out and away, and I do know they saw us as we headed back west to the Pacific Coast and the tankers. If that wing CO wants revenge, send him down to Santa Clara AB east of Mexico City: the MiGs we ran into today over the capital came from there.
Yep, that was me and my guys. We went in and out quick on that one - we had warnings of SA-2s, and those 57mm AA guns got one of the 33d Wing F-111s, as I mentioned earlier. I wasn't too worried about SAMs myself - if a Patriot can't pickup a F-22, an SA-2 hasn't got a fucking chance - but I was worried for my Varks. All of mine came home though. The 33d Wing had one downed and another which had major damage, he couldn't make it all the way back to Goodfellow. He did, however, make it to Lemay. If you have a shot-up F-111 there, that's one of 33d Wing guys. don't think my guys saw any Strike Eagles, but I know the 33d Wing guys did. It was probably you they saw, then. Santa Clara AB, huh? I'll run that by him. I just hope he gets to handle that before any of the bombers pay the place a visit. If they do what they did to that HQ in Monterrey, God help anybody at that base.

Matt Wiser said: ↑
So we've got our first ace of this fight. Kelly Ann had a big party last night to celebrate her getting #5, even though it took her twenty-plus years to get to that magic number. And yes, the flight surgeons are enforcing the 12-hour rule with a vengeance.
Kelly Ann got her ace, huh? Glad to hear it. Just make sure her head doesn't grow too much, I don't want her to lose that killer instinct for when I'm back for Red Flag next year. I know she wants my ass, and I do always want to beat somebody when they are on their A-game. And yes, the lfight surgeons are enforcing the 12-hour rule vigorously here, too. Many of the local Mexican-descent population has been making our lives as nice as they can here, too.

Matt Wiser said: ↑
Anyone run into any Cubans? There supposedly was a military advisory group that Fidel sent to Mexico a few years after the Armistice (in violation, again), and a rumor's going around that most of the MiGs we're facing have Cuban pilots. Since we settled scores with Cuba earlier, those guys have nowhere to go, so they have nothing to lose and may want to take more than a few of us with 'em. If they're there, be careful, people.
I've been wondering about that since I ran across those two Foxbats. Have the Cubans got any Fulcrums in Mexico? I know most of them got diced when we settled the score with Havana (three of them knocked down by yours truly), but since I saw those Foxbats I've been thinking about that. The Cubans are better pilots than the Mexicans, too. They aren't as bad as they were back in the old days, but they still ain't very good.

By the way, I found out who belted the international airport in Mexico City - my brother's A-6s paid it a visit about 30 hours ago, loaded with Durandals. That would explain the cratered runways. Hopefully that keeps the -23s down for good, or at least until somebody decides to mop up the rest of the Mexican AF.

Matt Wiser

Your F-111 crew's fine, just waiting to get transportation back to Goodfellow. Their Vark, though...it's only fit for the junk pile. They bellied in on landing, and an engine caught fire as they touched down. The plane's burned out as a result. Don't worry, though, they'll enjoy a room at the Sheraton (the manager found a vacant room-surprise, surprise) and they'll be comfy for a day or two.

You mean Guadalajara IAP, don't you? 419 took out Juraez IAP's runways-those GBU-24 concrete penetrator LGBs are wonders for that. But someone got to Guadalajara's runways this morning before we showed up-and those MiG-23s were stuck there. Kara took the 390th there in the afternoon and blasted them on the ground, and the maintenance hangars, control tower, and fuel depot along with the MiGs. The fixed SAMs may be finished, at least in the west: we haven't seen any since the morning, and there's intact sites, but the operators seem to be too scared to turn on their radars. Good. That means they'll live. For a while, anyway.

VI Corps is still fifty miles from Chihuahua, according to CNN. 4th Armored, 44th ID, and 14th ACR are all spread out for miles. 14th ACR crossed at Presidio, TX, while 5th AD and 44th ID went out of El Paso. Juraez is still a ghost town-and looks like WW III ended yesterday. My guess is that in a day or two, we'll have most, if not all, of our objectives met, and what happens next is up to Mexico City. That lunatic running things in Caracas is demanding the UN take action to support the Mexicans, but the UN is pretty deaf at the moment.

Pyro

Sorry I haven't been around to post. Between graduation from the University of Lethbridge and landing a job as an archivist at the newly-opened war museum in Vancouver, I'm lucky that I get enough to time to sleep. Anyway, I'm glad that the Mexicans are finally getting their comeuppance. It seems there are fewer and fewer places for these "lefties" to hide. Is it me or does that lunatic in Venezuela look like he's afraid that he's next on the list?

Matt Wiser

That's probably what he thinks. Best to leave him guessing. Let's wrap this business up with the Mexicans first, though.

thepenguin

I think VI Corps is going to have an easy go of it. We've been flying 8-hour shifts during their run to Chihuahua, and just about all resistance has been wiped out in a twenty-mile radius of Chihuahua. The previous days' bombing took care of the rest. All of our guys are still in it, although Captain Keith Booker had a rough time of it when his F-16 swallowed a turbine blade. He had to eject and landed in the middle of 44 ID's camp. We just got him back today. Hey, has anybody seen any Su-27s in their assigned airspace? I think we got a flight of them just today. AWACS said they came from the southwest. We were 80 miles north of Chihuahua. The Albinos got two of them and the others bugged out in the direction they came from. Is there an airbase in Obregon?

TheMann

Flankers? You serious? :eek: Those Foxbats are the best I've seen so far. I hope if AWACS gets a load of them they send somebody there pronto. We got bombers roaming over Monterrey and Chihuahua, I don't think we want to get any of those in the area when they are around.

As for where in the hell they came from, the Air Base at Los Mochis got smoked by Massachusetts and Newport News, so I don't think anything is coming out of there. The base at Durango, perhaps.

thepenguin

TheMann said: ↑
Flankers? You serious? :eek: Those Foxbats are the best I've seen so far. I hope if AWACS gets a load of them they send somebody there pronto. We got bombers roaming over Monterrey and Chihuahua, I don't think we want to get any of those in the area when they are around.

As for where in the hell they came from, the Air Base at Los Mochis got smoked by Massachusetts and Newport News, so I don't think anything is coming out of there. The base at Durango, perhaps.
AWACS said the IFF squawk was of a Flanker. I saw them on radar only, so... But we are being loaded out for air-to-air for Saturday: AIM-9X on the tips, and the rest Slammers. I think your F-22s are flying with us on Saturday, Mann, but leave some for us peons in the Vipers and Albinos.

TheMann

thepenguin said: ↑
AWACS said the IFF squawk was of a Flanker. I saw them on radar only, so... But we are being loaded out for air-to-air for Saturday: AIM-9X on the tips, and the rest Slammers. I think your F-22s are flying with us on Saturday, Mann, but leave some for us peons in the Vipers and Albinos.
Fat chance, penguin. The AF gave us the best fighter planes ever designed, and I damn well intend to use them as directed. And if I find Flankers, I'll blast them. Simple as that. Besides, I only have two over Mexico. One of my wingies (a female one, I should point out) made Ace yesterday. The Mexican AF has lost enough in the last few days that they may not fly at all. All the better for us if they don't.

Matt Wiser

Su-27s? Our threat board doesn't have any of those. I'll bet the Russians left them behind after the Armistice, and gave the Mexicans the keys. The Flankers probably came from Torreon: the base there's within fighting range of the border if you're in an Su-27. Durango airfield isn't operable any more: the Bold Tigers of the 391st saw to that. Only planes they saw were on the ramp-a half dozen Su-7s and the same number of Su-25s, and they got turned into burning wrecks. (all left over from last time, the intel guys said) And no SAMs-the SA-2 site fell to the Weasel Vipers from the 352nd-HARM and JSOW again. And I'll bet 10th Air Force at Davis-Monthan is probably tasking someone to hit Torreon right now, if not sooner. And if there's Cubans flying down there, my guess is that's where some of 'em are.

7th ID is now in Kimo Bay-CNN says. No opposition, and the only casualties so far have been from traffic accidents and a Chinook crash. The locals told the CNN crew with 7th ID that the Mexican Army fled east on the road to Hermosillo-and that was that. Given that road is now owned by either 7th ID or 5th Armored, those guys ran into either an M-8 AGS or an M-1A1 roadblock-if the AH-64s or A-10s didn't get them first. Get VI Corps, III Corps, and VIII Corps to their objectives, and this one's probably done-unless the Mexicans want to try and retake what they've lost. The CNN crew in Mexico City says the Mexican government's split-some want to keep fighting, while others want a cease-fire. No majority faction has emerged-yet. Wait until Monterrey and Chihuahua fall, and then we'll see what happens. Until then, keep up the pressure...

Hey Pyro, how's the Canadian press handling this? The online editions of the various UK papers (thank-you La Paz Sheraton's satellite DSL!) are saying that the Mexicans are getting what's coming to them for defying the cease-fire for so long, but what's the reaction up there?

BigWillyG

You guys seen the CNN reports on Vera Cruz? Marines just landed there tonight. Happy New Year for the Mexicans. My brother-in-law and sister-in-law just got an email from my neice. She says she's safe and the Mexicans harldy bothered fighting. Most action she saw was a couple shells from some ancient M101s that the '16s from a battleship silenced in 5 minutes. She can't tell us where she's going but CNN says is talking about moving from Vera Cruz to Mexico City on Scotts old 1840s route. If anybody knows better please tell me so her parents can know what she'll be facing.
Still haven't heard anything from my boy or any news on the New Hampshire although it looks like Navy isen't getting much of a workout in all this.

Pyro

Matt Wiser said: ↑
Hey Pyro, how's the Canadian press handling this? The online editions of the various UK papers (thank-you La Paz Sheraton's satellite DSL!) are saying that the Mexicans are getting what's coming to them for defying the cease-fire for so long, but what's the reaction up there?
I was going to the bar with my co-workers when we saw footage of aircraft taking off and tanks rolling over the bridges to cross the Rio Grande. Everyone cheered, and I heard someone shout "'Bout damn time!" The CBC has no love for the Mexicans and railed against them for years, many of the newspapers (especially the Vancouver Province and Calgary Herald) celebrated the US' actions. According to some sources, the Canadian Armed Forces are ready to join in. The Prime Minister is supposed to address the nation tomorrow, so we'll see.

TheMann

The Navy's air guys have been busy and the SEAL teams have been flying around like a bunch of chickens with their heads cut off, but other than that and the heavy cruisers and battleships blowing stuff up, there hasn't been much. Two Mexican-flagged Krivaks tried to run the blockade out of Cancun and ate Harpoons from John Rodgers (DD-983) and Missouri (BBN-63), but other than that the Mexican Navy, pathetic as it is, has done virtually nothing.

The Marines landing at Veracruz (much of which was leveled by Iowa, St. Paul and Newport News beforehand) is just as bad as the Rangers at Villahermosa and the Marines at Campeche. Mexico is right out of the oil business, which is nice to know. They asked for it.

Anyways, the South Africans are offering to back us up in Mexico and have proposed a international peacekeeping operation for Mexico. Of course, the South African proposal allows us to keep the oil fields as compensation for Mexico not holding up its end of the armistice deal. They also offered to send their fleet flagships, two of our old air-defense cruisers that they evidently did a lot of upgrading to, to serve as part of the Navy's air defense nets. No word yet from Washington, but hopefully they go for this, if for no other reason than to just piss off that blowhard in Caracas that much more.

TheMann

Pyro said: ↑
I was going to the bar with my co-workers when we saw footage of aircraft taking off and tanks rolling over the bridges to cross the Rio Grande. Everyone cheered, and I heard someone shout "'Bout damn time!" The CBC has no love for the Mexicans and railed against them for years, many of the newspapers (especially the Vancouver Province and Calgary Herald) celebrated the US' actions. According to some sources, the Canadian Armed Forces are ready to join in. The Prime Minister is supposed to address the nation tomorrow, so we'll see.
The South Africans beat 'em to the punch, their Navy is already sending stuff our way. But if our friends north of the border want to send some help our way, why not? I would imagine that any Mexican who knows of the Canadians' exploits during the war would fear hearing that the Lord Strathcona's Horse (OOC: One of Canada's IRL armored regiments) is joining the fight, especially after the distinction they earned in Western Canada 20 years ago......

BigWillyG

Nice. Boring war for my old navy then. My son won't be happy and his fellow submariners are probably bored. Other then launch cruise missiles and maybe dropping off spec-op which is Carter and the old Ohios job they probably aren't getting to do anything. I kinda wish I hadn't told him all my convoy attack stories when he was growing up.

Matt Wiser

Well, the party's wrapped up, everyone on the flight schedule has hit the sack or is about to, and the 12-hour rule was enforced zealously. Anyway, CNN is now saying that III Corps is now within artillery range of Monterrey, and VIII Corps 12th ACR has linked up with 2nd Marine Division's beachhead. (they pushed about 40 miles ahead of the Corps main body-whoever's leading 12th ACR ought to get some kind of decoration for that advance, even if there was hardly any opposition) VI Corps should be at their objective tomorrow, and once Monterrey and Chihuahua fall, that's the end of Phase I. Phase II is up to the Mexicans. IF they give up, it's over. If not, well, we'll just see how bad they want what they've lost back. I'll bet III Corps is probably fighting its way into Monterrey right now, as that report was two hours old.

Whoops-CNN just interrupted their Sports Tonight show: there's something happening in Mexico City-tanks on the streets, lots of gunfire, and orders from various factions to stay put and obey whoever's giving the orders. Looks like a coup is going down, or the Mexicans have decided to fight amongst themselves. Wait until daylight and see what's going on, fellas, but if the faction that felt this new war is a mistake comes out on top, then it's a fair bet this'll be over sooner than we think. Like Sloreck said earlier: we don't need any more territory, and if the Mexicans agree to abide by the Armistice terms, this'll be done. Oh, and give back the lefties, too. They've got a date in court. And some have a date with the hangman after that.

DD951

Matt Wiser said: ↑
Well, the party's wrapped up, everyone on the flight schedule has hit the sack or is about to, and the 12-hour rule was enforced zealously. Anyway, CNN is now saying that III Corps is now within artillery range of Monterrey, and VIII Corps 12th ACR has linked up with 2nd Marine Division's beachhead. (they pushed about 40 miles ahead of the Corps main body-whoever's leading 12th ACR ought to get some kind of decoration for that advance, even if there was hardly any opposition) VI Corps should be at their objective tomorrow, and once Monterrey and Chihuahua fall, that's the end of Phase I. Phase II is up to the Mexicans. IF they give up, it's over. If not, well, we'll just see how bad they want what they've lost back. I'll bet III Corps is probably fighting its way into Monterrey right now, as that report was two hours old.

Whoops-CNN just interrupted their Sports Tonight show: there's something happening in Mexico City-tanks on the streets, lots of gunfire, and orders from various factions to stay put and obey whoever's giving the orders. Looks like a coup is going down, or the Mexicans have decided to fight amongst themselves. Wait until daylight and see what's going on, fellas, but if the faction that felt this new war is a mistake comes out on top, then it's a fair bet this'll be over sooner than we think. Like Sloreck said earlier: we don't need any more territory, and if the Mexicans agree to abide by the Armistice terms, this'll be done. Oh, and give back the lefties, too. They've got a date in court. And some have a date with the hangman after that.
Well, one can hope that this little mess causes the communist government in Mexico to finally fall, and although I've been stuck at home (not that there was that much for us surface warfare types to do that wasn't already covered), hopefully a couple of those traitors that ought to be coming back will come my way- rumor has it that there was a guy who used to live up in Bellingham who ran a ratline to get former auxilliaries out of the country and skipped town ahead of indictments for tax evasion, drug smuggling, and being an accessory to all sorts of stuff related to treason, sedition, collaboration, and similar stuff has been hanging out at Cancun.
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[lordroel]

From page 91

sloreck

Glad this parade looks to be ending soon, with a minimum number of NOK letters to go out. Anyone have any word on whether or not there hsve been any flights out of Mexico towards the south (ie: Venezuela) since this started. I would assume that AWACS would be able to see that. I'd hate to see any of the clown crowd in Mexico get away. Can't see any of those fools trying to get away overland past the jungles & guerrillas - only practical ways would be a light plane or small boat (reverse drug smuggling) and I hope AWACS & E-2's would spot them. I so want those folks on trial, or seeing some light plane eat 20 mike-mike, or a cabin cruiser take some 5".

Pyro

Just watched the Prime Minister's address, and he ordered our forces to mobilize. It might be a bit late but if it makes the Mexicans say "uncle" faster...

sloreck

Had an interesting chat with a friend of mine inside the beltway. Somebody (for a change) has done some forward thinking! One of the issues in this "temporarily occupied" zone of Mexico will be money - nobody wants to see US dollars surreptitiously leaving the zone for potentially nefarious purposes, so all US dollars there will be stamped front & back in big purple letters "MEXICO" & will not be valid anywhere but in zone. If the locals have dollars in the bank & need to transfer funds out of the zone for a legitimate reason, all transfers will have to be electronic so we can monitor them.

All US personnel will be given cash in these dollars, which they can trade in at a US stateside base for the "real thing". All physical US dollars in the zone must be turned in for "MEXICO" dollars within 2-3 weeks one for one. Any US dollars found after that time will be confiscated. For the time being US coins will be allowed, however depending on how long we stay they are talking about making half size bills for $.50 & $.25. No way enough pennies/nickels/dimes can be accumulated to matter much.

No matter what government comes in to power, we plan to stay there at some level in some key spots (at a minimum) until every penny of reparations are paid, no matter how long it takes. Also heard that in border security zone will be no fly for armed fixed wing Mexican a/c, only limited # of LAV equivalent allowed, no artillery or mortars & we will retain inspection privileges in this zone in perpetuity & some sort of patrol privileges for 5-10 km south of the border for a very long time.

These demands, and the reparations are non-negotiable. Oh yes, and any persons, of ANY nationality, who are on the wanted list we give them must be turned over.

JN1

Pyro said: ↑
Just watched the Prime Minister's address, and he ordered our forces to mobilize. It might be a bit late but if it makes the Mexicans say "uncle" faster...
Our PM has offered the 16th Airborne Division if the Americans feel they need it, plus a further contingent of troops for any post-war peacekeeping/occupation duties. I believe there may be 'persons of interest' to HMG in Mexico, which is why we're offering to help.

If we do deploy a contingent to Mexico then I certainly won't be going, which is a bit of a disappointment. I've already stepped down as adjutant and will be taking up my post as senior PSI at the end of the month.

Matt Wiser

Until it's final and the signatures are on the documents, it's still a shooting war, people. Mexico City right now is becoming a local version of Beirut, and the various factions seem to have a lot of ammo (no surprise there). Let's let'em fight it out and see who we'll have to dictate the terms to once the fight in Mexico City's done. In any case, they'll be so weakened, that whatever faction takes charge won't have any choice but to sign.

Anyway, neither Lisa or I have letters to write so far. The 366th and 419th haven't lost anyone, though a Weasel Viper from the 352nd went into the Gulf of California with battle damage. The Navy fished out the pilot-good thing, too: the SAR helo saw sharks-Great Whites, they thought. By the way, we had the day off, though the 352nd had a full day.

I was talking to 10th Air Force's Ops Officer today, and he did say that AWACS (both Air Force E-3s and E-2s from carriers) have been picking up flights not from Mexico City, but from several regional airports south of the capital-all headed south. And in third-country aircraft. (guess who?) I'll bet the leftie bug-out has begun, along with any Cubans or Soviets.

III Corps is in Monterrey, IV Corps got to Chihuahua City, and for all intents and purposes, Phase I is finished. Now to see what our "friends" south of the battle line have in mind.

thepenguin

Yeah, them Flankers came back, the two that weren't downed by our Eagles. I got kill number ten, popped off a Slammer at about 40 miles or so. Switched to 'Winders immediately after I launched that -120, because I thought the pilot would wiggle out of it. But, I got indication that the missile went active, and it tracked true. My radar confirmed it, AWACS confirmed it, and a squadron of Bradleys saw it crash near them. One more star (or triangle? What's Mexico's roundel?) on my -16. An Eagle got the other one. And are we intercepting these flights? I hope we are.

And Panzerfaust: 4th ACR found our girl. Ms. Mikayla Fossett, or alias Renee Greengrass. From what I heard from the Intel green-suits, she got out just as my 'Hogs were doing their targeting shit-she's actually got some shrapnel in her back from the Mavericks. I guess she swapped identification with Ms. Greengrass, who was knocked out at the time (I can't remember how, but she was out cold.), and she boogied on out. It might seem kind of presumptuous, to say it's her, but believe me, I know her face.

Also, no letters to write for Colonel Granger, 148th's CO; nor for General Davies, CO of the 120th TFW; nor Colonel Schifrin, CO of the 179th TFW. We've been lucky so far.

Panzerfaust 150

thepenguin said: ↑
And Panzerfaust: 4th ACR found our girl. Ms. Mikayla Fossett, or alias Renee Greengrass. From what I heard from the Intel green-suits, she got out just as my 'Hogs were doing their targeting shit-she's actually got some shrapnel in her back from the Mavericks. I guess she swapped identification with Ms. Greengrass, who was knocked out at the time (I can't remember how, but she was out cold.), and she boogied on out. It might seem kind of presumptuous, to say it's her, but believe me, I know her face.
Yeah, I got a phone call from the FBI saying they had a confirmation from CI assets down there. I am not involved, formally, but I have a good idea of what they're going to ask her. She ran their records division, so the material witness warrant is mainly to find out what she saw, or filed. Not as good as the original records, but it's the best we have. Of course, if she doesn't cooperate...she gets tried and probably convicted on a raft of charges; Aid and Comfort of the Enemy in time of War, Sedition, Accessory to 1st Degree Murder, Grand Larceny...it goes on and on. Note, they're staying away from the "Big T". That's an automatic date with the rope. And frankly, the FBI wants the information she has more than her being in jail.

thepenguin

Panzerfaust 150 said: ↑
Yeah, I got a phone call from the FBI saying they had a confirmation from CI assets down there. I am not involved, formally, but I have a good idea of what they're going to ask her. She ran their records division, so the material witness warrant is mainly to find out what she saw, or filed. Not as good as the original records, but it's the best we have. Of course, if she doesn't cooperate...she gets tried and probably convicted on a raft of charges; Aid and Comfort of the Enemy in time of War, Sedition, Accessory to 1st Degree Murder, Grand Larceny...it goes on and on. Note, they're staying away from the "Big T". That's an automatic date with the rope. And frankly, the FBI wants the information she has more than her being in jail.
Well, hopefully she's grown some brains over the past, what, 20 some years? However, knowing her, I don't think she's gonna talk. She was one of those "true believers," loving every word that ever spewed out of Lenin's mouth or Marx's pen. She was calling for something called "worldwide prohibition" back when me and Bridie knew her. Whatever it was, I have no fucking clue, but I wouldn't be suprised if it was even remotely related to the teachings of Marx. Bridie was pleasantly shocked, by the way, to learn of this.

Matt Wiser

Not much we can do about those flights, they're all third-country registered, though some of 'em do have to land somewhere to refuel. I'd have SEALs or Army SF waiting in some of those airports (if the host nation will allow it) to snatch people while their planes are being refueled. Several Learjets or Falcon 20s (French BizJet), though, do have the range to get down to Caracas from where they're flying from. Panama and Honduras are the most likely to be cooperative, but Costa Rica maintains its neutrality, and doesn't like such...upleasantness on their turf.

The CNN crew in Mexico City said that the faction seeming in the lead (in terms of the city they control) is an outfit calling itself the Popular Liberal Democratic Party (how Popular, Liberal, or Democratic they are is another matter), and they seem to have most of the regular Mexican Army and police behind them. No idea how "progressive" they are as they call themselves down there, but when the time comes to talk (as it will) they'll have no choice but to sign on the dotted line and do what we tell them-or else.

If the Brits and Canadians want to join the party, come on ahead. Isn't one of the Brits on their "wanted" list that lunatic ex-member of Parliment who mourned the ComBloc Defeat? Galway, Galloway, something like that? He's also on the FBI's list too, as some of his activities during the war were on U.S. soil in the occupied zone in Texas and Oklahoma. He's been on the radio from Mexico City, Havana, and Caracas-evidently commuting between the three before we settled with Fidel earlier this year. Pyro probably knows of any Canadian collaborators who escaped down below the Rio Grande-any of 'em still outstanding? If we find 'em, you guys will have the chance to string them up or make them pose for rifle fire. (we do both here)

Any other lefties caught yet? Some were living in Monterrey, if I'm not mistaken. III Corps' Provost Marshal probably has a list of 'em, and where they can be found (hopefully)-assuming they didn't bug out for points south.

Pyro

There are quite a few that escaped to Mexico before the war ended, but the big fish is some guy named Svend Robinson who collaborated with to Soviets. He turned in roughly (there aren't many surviving records since Ivan torched nearly everything in their retreat) fifty to sixty "enemies of the people" and their families to Soviet authorities, most of them either political rivals or prominent business people. Some were even innocent people he had a vendetta against. To my knowledge, most of them were executed and their families sent to labor/re-eduction camps. On top of that, he helped operate a spy ring to root out resistance groups from Vancouver all the way to Cranbrook. Needless to say he's the most hated man in British Columbia, and I heard that he is burned in effigy at UBC every Victory Day.

However, the CBC reported that he is among the collaborators captured in Monterrey and is on his way back to Canada. Needless to say he will have a date with the noose in a few short months.
Last edited: Jan 2, 2010

JN1

Isn't one of the Brits on their "wanted" list that lunatic ex-member of Parliment who mourned the ComBloc Defeat? Galway, Galloway, something like that?
That's the bloke; he flew the coop before he could be arrested during the war. The Security Service (MI5) reckon he was in the pay of Moscow during the war and he did take part in propaganda broadcasts like those of Lord Haw Haw.

OOC: I'd be careful not to mention his actual name. He will sue at the drop of a hat.

Matt Wiser

Well, back to flying today, and we had three missions on the schedule. First one was to Mexico City, as the runways at Juraez IAP were being repaired (can't have that), so it was more LGBs to crater the runways. This time it was a milk run-no SAMs (they've been either suppressed, destroyed, or scared into inactivity), hardly any AAA, and of course, no MiGs (did Mann's friend take down Santa Clara AB?). Loitering above, one can see the tanks, APCs, and trucks on the street, the various barricades, and heavy exchanges of small-arms and heavy caliber weapons fire. Seems the various factions don't care about the aircraft overhead, as they have their own battles with each other to concern themselves. The second one was a highway bridge west of Mexico City-seems Government Forces were moving some of their heavy armor not towards the front line, but into the capital. That bridge had to come down, and it did. Those T-62s won't get into Mexico City by that route, and some of 'em went down into the gorge. The final one of the day was to the Mexican Army base at Colima: seems the rebels now have SF advisors, and the voice on the radio calling us in wasn't a local, let's put it that way. We tore apart that army base like a Kansas tornado; they won't be bothering the rebels (of whatever faction) for a while...

The CNN crew in Mexico City has been talking to the various factions-in between getting caught in fire-fights, and each faction claims to be the government. The Central Government and the PLDP are the two largest and most heavily armed-they have the most tanks, artillery, and other heavy weapons. Looks like the final showdown will be involving these two, once the smaller ones are either absorbed into the larger faction, or eliminated if they refuse. That CNN reporter-Armanpour-is earning her pay on this one.

This sure is a strange war where we are: the 27th Marines are still on routine patrol, you come back from your missions and unless you have other unit duties, can go into town for a few hours, (the beach at the Sheraton's pretty popular), and then come back, get a few hours' sleep, then it starts all over again. What the hell, it sure beats last time-that first week was so hectic and confused, I'm not sure how I (or anyone else in the squadron) got through it. But some things are still the same: the ground crews count everyone leaving, and they count everyone coming in. And the news crews sitting outside the base, doing live shots.

DD951

Pyro said: ↑
There are quite a few that escaped to Mexico before the war ended, but the big fish is some guy named Svend Robinson who collaborated with to Soviets. He turned in roughly (there aren't many surviving records since Ivan torched nearly everything in their retreat) fifty to sixty "enemies of the people" and their families to Soviet authorities, most of them either political rivals or prominent business people. Some were even innocent people he had a vendetta against. To my knowledge, most of them were executed and their families sent to labor/re-eduction camps. On top of that, he helped operate a spy ring to root out resistance groups from Vancouver all the way to Cranbrook. Needless to say he's the most hated man in British Columbia, and I heard that he is burned in effigy at UBC every Victory Day.

However, the CBC reported that he is among the collaborators captured in Monterrey and is on his way back to Canada. Needless to say he will have a date with the noose in a few short months.
I remember hearing about that SOB back in the day- real nasty piece of work, and the intel types went to a lot of trouble to circulate his description around and make it quite clear that if he was captured, that he was to be immediately handed over to them, taking priority over the military commissions, and that under no circumstancs was he to be 'shot while trying to escape' or anything like that; he had such a reputation that he was one of those that the soliders and sailors on the front lines would have almost certainly shot him out of hand if they caught him.

However, that date with the noose might have to be put off for a bit, as he's on our list too- seems that not only was he one of those responsible for Pt. Roberts and a couple other incidents like that on our side of the border, as well as working with auxilliaries, spies, terrorists, and other collaborators in the US, as well as being connected with the ratline that a number of such types used to bug out to Mexico, Cuba, and Venezuela after the war; he's someone who our intel types, military prosecutors, and the DOJ have wanted a piece of for a long time as well. Guess that's going to be the subject of a few phone calls between DC & Ottawa over the next couple weeks.

JimmyRibbitt

Pyro said: ↑
However, the CBC reported that he is among the collaborators captured in Monterrey and is on his way back to Canada. Needless to say he will have a date with the noose in a few short months.

I wonder if the British will ever that leftie film maker down in Caracas. Given that the Brits did send Lord Haw Haw (who was American) to the gallows in 1946 for making propoganda broadcasts on behalf of the Germans, I could see some of these lefties eventually being cauight and executed by the Brits, including that one film maker in Caracas.

As I have said before, the one UCLA prof should be thankful the Brits did not get him first, or he would have gone to the gallows by now. The Brits have shown, in the past, that they have zero tolerance for such a thing.

Pyro

I'm sure there's enough of Svend to go around for everyone, the general consensus up here is that it doesn't matter who puts him on trial, we just want to see him dead. I heard about Pt. Roberts a couples times but many people are reluctant to speak about it, would be any trouble to elaborate on it?

DD951

Pyro said: ↑
I'm sure there's enough of Svend to go around for everyone, the general consensus up here is that it doesn't matter who puts him on trial, we just want to see him dead. I heard about Pt. Roberts a couples times but many people are reluctant to speak about it, would be any trouble to elaborate on it?
Not surprised that people are reluctant to talk about Pt. Roberts- that was something very nasty, although it came up here a couple months ago.

Early in November, 1986, the Soviets got some bad intel that an SIGINT/ELINT intercept team & a SF detachment who had been a real thorn in their side were operating out of there, and sent in a large force under the command of some sort of KGB Spetznaz equivalent to get them November 26. Pt. Roberts was too lightly defended- an understrength NG platoon, local cops & border patrol types, & an informal militia of armed citizens- didn't stand a chance despite inflicting about a hundred casualties, and it was inexcusable considering how isolated it was- apparently an Army 2-star got sacked over that debacle.

However, what the Soviets were looking were never there, so the commander, a KGB type, ordered a massacre of every last man, woman, and child the commies (mostly auxiliaries, with a few KGB types calling the shots) could get hold of to work out their frustrations and teach an 'object lesson,' taking their time with things, and unfortunately, they happened to be unusually creative in their sadism and had all too willing accomplices,. Basically, it was a sort of truly sick 'experimental archaelology' into medieval methods of torture and execution, especially when it came to those involved in the defense of the town, local government, business leaders, and professional types. As if that wasn't bad enough, they also used most of the women between about 12-13 and probably 70 for some 'informal R&R' before killing them. Afterwards, I understand the KGB unit running the show, even among the KGB, enjoyed a reputation similar to that of the Dirlewanger division among the SS.

From what I've heard, mostof the few dozen survivors still have severe PTSD or other psychological issues.

My ship was one of those that responded to the distress call, hoping to catch the enemy and land a couple companies of Marines to drive the commies away, but were too late. Even 20 years later, just thinking about what I saw when I went ashore with the landing party the day afterwards makes me want to go grab a bottle. Having to testify about that at the Vegas war crimes trials was one of the most difficult things I've ever done.

We captured one batch of auxiliaries who were involved a few months later- didn't realize who they were until we boarded them after they surrendered, otherwise we'd just have sunk them on the spot. Even then, the crew would have hung them from the yardarms or something like that if us officers didn't step in (out of a desire to avoid the complications that would cause). They were handed over to Army MPs when we docked a few days later to refuel and reprovision; a military commission at Ft. Lewis found them all guilty of assorted war crimes, treason, and murder, and sentenced the lot to death- they were shot rather than hanged, because nobody wanted to expend the effort to build a gallows, or ship them to where the closest one was (Walla Walla State Penitentiary, in the SE part of the state). A second batch got captured by another destroyer (Decatur) and met a similar fate.

As far as we knew, most of those responsible either got killed in the small craft actions that characterized the naval side of the BC campaign or in the fighting in Vancouver, although most of the commanders responsible survived long enough to face justice in Las Vegas. We figured there were probably still a few out there who've managed to find some hole to crawl into, but no leads in the last 10 years, until Svend turned up- info we had was that he was the auxillary commisar for that and suggested the truly disgusting parts (he was working closely with that KGB colonel who was fond of using flamethrowers to publically execute hostages and those captured as guerillas and spies, whether or not they were, so not a surprise), but since he disappeared in the Battle of Vancouver, we figured he was probably killed in the fighting and buried in a mass grave, instead of slinking down the ratline like he did.

TheMann

Port Roberts was perhaps the biggest fuckup the Soviets ever made, because not only did they achieve absolutely nothing, when word of that got out every man (and virtually every woman) began looking to shoot Russians. After that stunt, Spetsnaz teams got diddly squat done - anybody that even looked Russian got beaten up or shot by local vigilantes. Russian Americans were attacked too - but those guys got their revenge by organizing themselves, and they asked to be brought into the Army in April '87, joining as a special forces unit, tasked with getting behind enemy lines. Did well at it, too. By the end of '88 the "Yankee Russians" were pretty well respected, and the Soviets hated them something awful. Their unit, the 95th Infantry, has ten Medal of Honor awards and countless Purple Hearts, Silver Stars and Intelligence Stars between them.

As for that fucker Robinson, part of me says drop a JDAM on his head and let God decide his fate, the other part of me thinks that at least we'll be able to get closure for some of the people who just don't know.

JN1

JimmyRibbitt said: ↑
I wonder if the British will ever that leftie film maker down in Caracas. Given that the Brits did send Lord Haw Haw (who was American) to the gallows in 1946 for making propoganda broadcasts on behalf of the Germans, I could see some of these lefties eventually being cauight and executed by the Brits, including that one film maker in Caracas.

As I have said before, the one UCLA prof should be thankful the Brits did not get him first, or he would have gone to the gallows by now. The Brits have shown, in the past, that they have zero tolerance for such a thing.
We don't hang anybody these days. The last capital crimes; treason and something else I won't mention in a family forum; were abolished more than ten years ago.
The Emergency Powers during the war did allow for execution by firing squad for a variety of crimes and allowed soldiers and police officers to shoot looters in certain circumstances (I know because I once shot a looter). Even then there was always a huge amount of paperwork after such an event. However the EPA lapsed in 1991.
Anybody we catch is going to spend a long time in HMP Belmarsh (our highest security prison reserved for terrorists and the like).

Matt Wiser

At least the ex-UCLA guy is already in the slammer-he got caught by the Marines in Havana when we took the place last year. So far, he's been charged with incitement to mutiny, aid and comfort to the enemy, and a couple related offenses. (no Treason charge-yet)

The one who ran from UC Boulder, though...that skunk is still outstanding. CNN's crew interviewed him in Mexico City-during an air raid (it wasn't us-we didn't go to Mexico City today). He was ranting about "Crimes against decency and humanity" and some other such BS, and was railing not only against the U.S. and its allies, but the PLDP, too. That took guts, as the interview took place about three or four blocks from the front lines, and a determined sniper could work one's way in and take a shot at him. The man's still unrepentant, and this time was proud of his "auxiliary" service. Did he just defend himself right into a minimum 10-15? If he can be connected to specific atrocities, that's at least life-with death as an option for the jury.

The op tempo's gone down to two a day, now, for 419, the 366th, and the 352nd. First one was to Guadalajara and an oil refinery-we didn't hit the refinery proper, but the fuel storage, though...smoke rising to 20,000 feet, and some very big fireballs when the Mark-82s found their mark. Number two was to Mazatlan: seems they're fortifying the beaches there, thinking the Marines are coming ashore, so why not go ahead and blast them, whether or not the Marines go ahead and land? Too bad about those old resort hotels being fortified and then hitting them with LGBs...I'm sure they were nice to stay in, back in the pre-WW III days.

TheMann

Bro called again, and his guys have been busy - Intruders and Corsairs supporting the Army guys and the Tomcats and Hornets shooting anything the Mexicans are dumb enough to send up. They picked off a Fulcrum and a -21 earlier today, no losses. The only loss they have had so far is an A-7F which had a major engine failure on the way home and ditched in the Pacific. They picked the pilot up OK though.

Yes, the 33d's commander got his revenge. He has two squadrons of F-111s, and all of them paid a little visit to Santa Clara AB. Durandals, Mk 82s and BLU-96s, with the 33d's A-10 squadron coming along for the ride with rocket pods and Mavericks. Not much left there after he was done with them, and the only MiG the Mexicans got airborne ate 30mm cannon fire from one of the A-10s - game over. Their F-16s drivers were kinda pissed that the mud pig got the kill, too.

My only run today was escort duty for a big bomb squadron from Dyess - SIXTEEN B-1s, each with 84 Mk-82 bombs and six GBU-31 2000-lb JDAMs - to Veracruz. As if the Battleships haven't blown up everything there, whatever was left standing isn't now. The bombers hit over a dozen positions at once. The whole idea, it seems, was to overwhelm the Mexicans. Mission accomplished, I'd imagine. From my fighter, it looked like so many firecrackers going off......

[lordroel]

From page 92

Pyro

Hey Matt, I just uncovered something that might interest you. As I mentioned earlier, I was recently hired as an archivist for the WWIII Memorial Museum and part of my duties are to catalog relics and memoirs. Well I remember how you mentioned that a friend of yours was shot down over Alberta, and a beaten coil-bound notebook fell into my hands a few days ago. It details the events of a farmer from about ten kilometers east of Strathmore who discovered a wounded pilot in his field, and how he and his two teenage sons risked their lives to smuggle him across the border. From what I read, they had a few close calls with the Soviet patrols but they succeeded. Does this story ring any bells?

TheMann

Pyro, that might be me, too. My best friend was an A-7 pilot who was hit by a SAM over Alberta and crashed, a paraplegic as a result, and locals also ran him back to friendly lines.

Matt Wiser

I did have a friend who punched out over Alberta...Capt. Kory Shaffer: he was in my OCS class. Kory was an F-16 driver (50th TFW redeployed from the UK to CONUS), and he was beat up so bad by the ejection, that when he got back to friendly lines they told him he'd never fly an ejection-seat equipped plane again. Kory drives AC-130s for a living now. An ex-Viper driver now flying gunships, nice....

Hey Mann: glad to see your friend got his revenge. And between the B-1s and the naval gunfire, Vera Cruz had some major "urban renewal" done. As for MiGs, well, we haven't seen any since Day 3 of this fracas. Either they've been shot down, destroyed on the ground, or are now too scared to come up. Kara's royally pissed: she's only got one so far; Kelly Ann has one-the ace-maker, I've got two, and some Viper driver with the 352nd has three: Two MiG-21s and an Su-7 ground-attack bird. You guys see any of the locals down there shooting at each other? Word's goin' round that the...unpleasantness in Mexico City is spreading. This PDLP and the Government are going all-out now.

Any others on the "wanted" list get picked up? The Marines on the east coast north of Tampico were looking for some guy who was wanted for not only his radio and "American Liberation Television" activities, but was also involved in some public executions in Texas and Arkansas-folks being shot for "Offenses Against the Occupation Authorities" and "Counter-Revolutionary Agitation." The creep ran for office on the "Freedom Socialist" ticket back in the late '70s in the Dallas area-my relatives there remember him for claiming the Dallas city council election was rigged to keep him from winning. He welcomed the invasion like it was manna from heaven, and more than a few people in North Texas and Arkansas paid for his zealousness. Richard Matheson is (or was) his name, assuming he's still alive. The Marines found his beach house on the coast-local wife and kids still there, but he's not. CNN showed the raid on the house:They picked up the wife for a Q&A, and found the wife's parents to care for the kids.

Tomcat Fanatic

DD951 said: ↑
So it looks like we're going to be taking care of the Mexicans after all. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like the Navy's going to be needing my services for this one, as none of the Puget Sound NRF units or non-aviation units are being called up... Hopefully, if we do catch some of the collaborators, auxillaries, or related scumbags, they'll send a couple my way to prosecute for their misdeeds. As for those who are going out for this one- good luck and good hunting.

Sloreck- sorry to hear about the medical issues- knew you had some unfinished buisness with the Mexicans and some others, but hope you have as speedy of a recovery as possible.

Wolfman- Lexington ended up as a museum in San Diego (OOC- where Midway ended up OTL /ooc)- saw her a couple years ago when I was down there for a conference; apparently there was a big political fight over her between California, Texas, and Louisana, with California winning out even though her wartime service was in the Carribean & Eastern Seaboard, due to some back-room deals from one of their congressmen who got busted for a variety of corruption charges a few years back. (Same Congressman got Hornet for Oakland even though we here in Seattle had a much stronger case for her- better site and nearby war service.)
I'll have to go see her when I get the chance.

Wolfman

Matt Wiser said: ↑
Your F-111 crew's fine, just waiting to get transportation back to Goodfellow. Their Vark, though...it's only fit for the junk pile. They bellied in on landing, and an engine caught fire as they touched down. The plane's burned out as a result. Don't worry, though, they'll enjoy a room at the Sheraton (the manager found a vacant room-surprise, surprise) and they'll be comfy for a day or two.

You mean Guadalajara IAP, don't you? 419 took out Juraez IAP's runways-those GBU-24 concrete penetrator LGBs are wonders for that. But someone got to Guadalajara's runways this morning before we showed up-and those MiG-23s were stuck there. Kara took the 390th there in the afternoon and blasted them on the ground, and the maintenance hangars, control tower, and fuel depot along with the MiGs. The fixed SAMs may be finished, at least in the west: we haven't seen any since the morning, and there's intact sites, but the operators seem to be too scared to turn on their radars. Good. That means they'll live. For a while, anyway.

VI Corps is still fifty miles from Chihuahua, according to CNN. 4th Armored, 44th ID, and 14th ACR are all spread out for miles. 14th ACR crossed at Presidio, TX, while 5th AD and 44th ID went out of El Paso. Juraez is still a ghost town-and looks like WW III ended yesterday. My guess is that in a day or two, we'll have most, if not all, of our objectives met, and what happens next is up to Mexico City. That lunatic running things in Caracas is demanding the UN take action to support the Mexicans, but the UN is pretty deaf at the moment.
The runway in Guadalajara was my work. The Bengals are causing havoc for the Mexicans. They shoulda paid up...

Chuck Mandus

Timeline of War

OT Question, when did World War III begin and end, I have some stories I want to add but I need to know some of those dates first. Thanks.

Matt Wiser

The war began on 5 Sep 85 and ended in the lower 48 on 5 Oct 89. Armistice concluded two weeks later, but ignored by NKs and Cuba. Guam retaken from NKs 12-27 Dec 89. Cuba accepts Armistice terms as applying to them 4 March 1990. Technically, the U.S. is still at war with the Rump USSR, as no permanent peace has been signed, and the recent business with Cuba (invasion and overthrow of Castro Regime), and Mexico (current invasion and likely full-scale civil war) means the last tidying up of WW III is underway. There were lots of loose ends to tie up...in many cases, that meant tying a noose around their scrawny necks (collaborators, ComBloc war criminals, etc.).

Hey Wolfman, so that was your doing? You guys flying off a carrier or out of MCAS San Lucas (Cabo San Lucas)?

Wolfman

Matt Wiser said: ↑
The war began on 5 Sep 85 and ended in the lower 48 on 5 Oct 89. Armistice concluded two weeks later, but ignored by NKs and Cuba. Guam retaken from NKs 12-27 Dec 89. Cuba accepts Armistice terms as applying to them 4 March 1990. Technically, the U.S. is still at war with the Rump USSR, as no permanent peace has been signed, and the recent business with Cuba (invasion and overthrow of Castro Regime), and Mexico (current invasion and likely full-scale civil war) means the last tidying up of WW III is underway. There were lots of loose ends to tie up...in many cases, that meant tying a noose around their scrawny necks (collaborators, ComBloc war criminals, etc.).

Hey Wolfman, so that was your doing? You guys flying off a carrier or out of MCAS San Lucas (Cabo San Lucas)?
We're deployed to MCAS San Lucas from El Toro. San Lucas is a pretty decent place, but I prefer El Toro.

Matt Wiser

How are the locals taking all of this? Now that statehood's official for Baja, I mean. There's one advantage to being deployed here: that Hazardous Duty Station bonus in your pay kicked in once we landed at LeMay.

So far, not much: we have the day off, and the 366th has been busy. Kara's not the only one who's angry about the lack of air-to-air action, the whole 390th TFS is a bunch of fire-eaters, and the whole squadron is disappointed the MiGs didn't come up like the Intel guys said they would. Ground kills don't count....

Hey Mann: anything new going on in your neck of the theater? Now that the Army's stopped at the Phase I line, waiting to see if this revolt has more traction...not much is happening here. Two hops a day instead of three, and no AAA, SAMs, or MiGs. Unless they're holding back in case we decide to keep going south, it looks like they've quit-on the Pacific Coast, anyway. The PDLP hasn't shown up here, but who knows?

Wolfman

OOC: Is San Lucas in Baja? I stink at these kinds of things...

Matt Wiser

OOC: Cabo San Lucas is on the southern tip of Baja.

TheMann

Matt Wiser said: ↑
Hey Mann: anything new going on in your neck of the theater? Now that the Army's stopped at the Phase I line, waiting to see if this revolt has more traction...not much is happening here. Two hops a day instead of three, and no AAA, SAMs, or MiGs. Unless they're holding back in case we decide to keep going south, it looks like they've quit-on the Pacific Coast, anyway. The PDLP hasn't shown up here, but who knows?
Not much here. My F-111s are on patrol duties, moving around providing support as needed, but no specific targets. I'm just on patrol duties, but not seeing much here either. AWACS is now up in the area where I am, either AF E-3s or Navy E-2s, but we aren't seeing much. One of my wingies knocked out a Mexican Mi-8, but we haven't seen any fighters in a couple days. Kinda a bummer, I was hoping to knock down a few more.....

They've given up trying to have anything to do with the Bay of Campeche, so I suspect the MexiCommies are well aware that their regime is history, and are retreating into the mountains to fight guerilla-style. They can do that if they want, they've still lost, period......

Matt Wiser

Who knows for sure? This PLDP bunch may just be a faction that wanted to have better relations with us, but still have "socialist" tendencies. Campeche Bay and the Yucatan are guerilla territory, period-the Zapatistas and a couple of the anti-communist groups run wild there, and some of the areas between the current front line and Mexico City are held by some outfits that are also anti-communist. The fact that the PLDP has most of the remaining heavy armored and mechanized divisions means they'll probably come out on top, but that may depend on the price asked by the various regimental and divisional COs.....if those guys are in it for reasons other than ideology....watch it. CNN says that Mexico City is still a free-fire zone, where anything can happen. The PDLP claims they're in control, while the Government says the same thing. Both sides accuse the other of lying, atrocities, etc.

First time since this mess got started that we didn't drop any ordnance on a mission. Armed recon was the game today, and we didn't find anything moving up towards Hermosillo-anything of a military nature. Lots of civilians fleeing the intercinine warfare in Central Mexico, though-the Army won't be too thrilled with several hundred thousand mouths to feed and care for when they didn't expect it. We made a few low-level passes and people down there waved at us! Anyone else have that happen? Kara's pissed-she, too, thought there'd be more action than what's gone on. 366th had the day off today, so both the 390th and 391st spent a lot of time at the beach-and in the bar at the Sheraton. (We've practically adopted the place, and the management doesn't seem to mind)

Any more lefties caught? The only way out is via third-country air, and those flights have to refuel somewhere....Costa Rica's the only safe place, and both Honduras and Panama said any who do touch down take their safety into their own hands (hint: there's SOF there, waiting to snatch 'em).

DD951

TheMann said: ↑
Port Roberts was perhaps the biggest fuckup the Soviets ever made, because not only did they achieve absolutely nothing, when word of that got out every man (and virtually every woman) began looking to shoot Russians. After that stunt, Spetsnaz teams got diddly squat done - anybody that even looked Russian got beaten up or shot by local vigilantes. Russian Americans were attacked too - but those guys got their revenge by organizing themselves, and they asked to be brought into the Army in April '87, joining as a special forces unit, tasked with getting behind enemy lines. Did well at it, too. By the end of '88 the "Yankee Russians" were pretty well respected, and the Soviets hated them something awful. Their unit, the 95th Infantry, has ten Medal of Honor awards and countless Purple Hearts, Silver Stars and Intelligence Stars between them.

As for that fucker Robinson, part of me says drop a JDAM on his head and let God decide his fate, the other part of me thinks that at least we'll be able to get closure for some of the people who just don't know.
Slight correction- it's Point Roberts. Back when the Oregon Country was being divided between the US & Britain, the extension of the 49th Parallel straight out to the coast left the tip of a peninsula south of the line, while the base was north of it, and that southern tip was left to the US even though it was completely isolated from the rest of the mainland by Canada ( the residents would need a passport just to go to the mall), and Point Roberts was the town that grew on that southern tip, although the place was never rebuilt after the war. The community had been destroyed and nobody really wanted to go back there because of the ghosts or whatever, so the National Parks Service and the people who set up war memorials did some stuff to preserve the ruins, added a couple monuments and a mini-museum about the massacre, and turned the place into another national memorial park.

Matt Wiser

Of which there are all too many. When I was in Houston at Ellington Field for the first postwar air show down there, there was a ground-breaking for a memorial for the victims of that sicko Khvoshtov in Clear Lake City (NASA). Quite a few members of the NASA community were there, including several astronauts, a flyover by NASA T-38s, etc., and this was just for the ground-breaking ceremonies. I've never been to the finished memorial, but I'm told it's pretty somber. The museum there includes a list of known victims of that bastard, and a lot of material on his trial and execution. Some of this stuff had been used as evidence at trial, and was donated to the Museum by DOD and DOJ when the trial was done and Khvoshtov swung by the neck-one of my pilots in 419 is an airline pilot who does the SLC-Houston run for Delta in his day job; he flew over the memorial for the dedication, and they gave the pilots a sneak preview of the museum before the formal opening. It's said the memorial park at Los Alamos is equally somber-given what happened there, it's to be expected. NPS runs the Los Alamos Memorial, but NASA has the Clear Lake City one.

Panzerfaust a while back mentioned problems with unexploded ordnance still being uncovered from the war, and I saw a story on the Arizona Republic's web site tonight: seems an Apache Indian out hunting on the Mescalaro Reservation found the wreck of a Tu-22 Blinder (one of several known to have been shot down there attempting to attack Phoenix-area targets), and in the wreckage was a live AS-4 Kitchen missile, along with the remains of the three crewmen, and live 23-mm ammo for the tail guns. EOD from Davis-Monthan was called out, and they'll be there for several days, according to the story. A related story came from Newkirk, NM (where 23rd ID fought during PRAIRIE FIRE): some off-roaders near the little town off of I-40 found a buried cache of Soviet made 122-mm artillery ammo. The nearest EOD team is at Cannon AFB, and you can bet they'll get out there ASAP. How'd they find it? Well, a recent rain washed away some of the earth covering the cache, and someone's ATV flipped. There's quite a few wrecked tanks and APCs in the area that no one's bothered to remove, and those might have live rounds still in 'em, so the AF EOD people will be busy.

Well, the Navy had some action today: Salem and her destroyers went down the coast to Acapulco and shelled the naval base there. 200+ 8-inch rounds on the target....an old Riga-class frigate came out (more guts than brains), and ate a Harpoon from one of the destroyers. She's an artifical reef now... CNN had a crew on the cruiser and had footage of the shore bombardment and the destroyer action.

TheMann

Matt Wiser said: ↑
Of which there are all too many. When I was in Houston at Ellington Field for the first postwar air show down there, there was a ground-breaking for a memorial for the victims of that sicko Khvoshtov in Clear Lake City (NASA). Quite a few members of the NASA community were there, including several astronauts, a flyover by NASA T-38s, etc., and this was just for the ground-breaking ceremonies. I've never been to the finished memorial, but I'm told it's pretty somber. The museum there includes a list of known victims of that bastard, and a lot of material on his trial and execution. Some of this stuff had been used as evidence at trial, and was donated to the Museum by DOD and DOJ when the trial was done and Khvoshtov swung by the neck-one of my pilots in 419 is an airline pilot who does the SLC-Houston run for Delta in his day job; he flew over the memorial for the dedication, and they gave the pilots a sneak preview of the museum before the formal opening. It's said the memorial park at Los Alamos is equally somber-given what happened there, it's to be expected. NPS runs the Los Alamos Memorial, but NASA has the Clear Lake City one.

Yeah, don't forget the Memorial in Denver where the Russian advance finally ground to a halt. I remember being there a year or so after it was dedicated in 1993, and not only the thing absolutely huge - it's better than 350 feet tall - but when I was there it was absolutely spotless, a year after it opened. Ten years later I saw it again passing through, and it was still spotless. I think I know why though, the first time I was there, two kids skateboarding on it get thrown off by a couple of older vets, one of whom smacked one of the kids across the face. I know many of Denver's survivors take good care of it.

BlairWitch749 said: ↑
Panzerfaust a while back mentioned problems with unexploded ordnance still being uncovered from the war, and I saw a story on the Arizona Republic's web site tonight: seems an Apache Indian out hunting on the Mescalaro Reservation found the wreck of a Tu-22 Blinder (one of several known to have been shot down there attempting to attack Phoenix-area targets), and in the wreckage was a live AS-4 Kitchen missile, along with the remains of the three crewmen, and live 23-mm ammo for the tail guns. EOD from Davis-Monthan was called out, and they'll be there for several days, according to the story.
Shit, a live AS-4? I'm glad the gent had enough brain to stay away from it, a AS-4 going off will blown up everything for a good 100 yards. I hope the EOD guys have their life insurance paid up when they go near that one.

BlairWitch749 said: ↑
Well, the Navy had some action today: Salem and her destroyers went down the coast to Acapulco and shelled the naval base there. 200+ 8-inch rounds on the target....an old Riga-class frigate came out (more guts than brains), and ate a Harpoon from one of the destroyers. She's an artifical reef now... CNN had a crew on the cruiser and had footage of the shore bombardment and the destroyer action.
Why would somebody waste a Harpoon on a Riga, it's like shooting a seagull with a 12-gauge. Salem's 5-inchers woulda sorted that, and if they didn't want to let it get that close, a Sparrow woulda done the deed in short order, too.

Anyways, on my front, The Mexican Navy got a little more balsier today out of Veracruz, two Krivaks, two Osa Is and a Kashin, stormed out of the Marina north of the city and tried to hit Massachusetts and Newport News. One of the supply ships put the final insult on one of the Osas - she'd been hit by a Harpoon and was dead in the water, so one of supply ships (USS Lewis and Clark) decided to get in on the action themselves and ran over what was left of the missile boat - literally. When has a supply ship ever sank something before, anyways? The Navy guys called us out worried about the naval attack being something done as part of a co-ordinated attack (it wasn't) and we got to see the Kashin die. The bugger took four Harpoons to sink.

DD951

I've never been to the Pt. Roberts Memorial Park- not exactly a place I ever want to see again after seeing the immediate aftermath of the massacre, but I understand it's pretty similar. From a glance at that NPS website, although there's only a half-dozen including Pt. Roberts here in WA, christ, there are dozens of them in the Southwest and Northern Plains states, each with its own tale of tragedy resulting from the depravity on those on the other side.......

Unexploded ordinance is a problem up here too- not a whole lot other than the stray bomb for most of the stuff on land, but a lot of warship wrecks, most of them having gone down with a good deal of ammo onboard, and over the years, there have been a couple dozen incidents were wreck divers and unlucky fisherman have gotten blown up by old warheads. That's on top of a disaster that happened about 10 years ago, where about three dozen children of elementary and junior high age at a summer camp in the San Juans were going on a trip to the beach, and from a video taken from a boat off-shore, the idiot camp counselors (5-6 of them) must have decided it was a good idea to let the kids play on the wreck of a Nanuchka I that had been beached in sinking condition during a small craft action in early 1987, and somehow, a SS-N-9 in the wreck got jarred or something, and it detonated (1100 lb HE warhead + rocket fuel), setting off a couple other missiles (SS-N-9s & SA-N-4 SAMs [naval version of a SA-8 Gecko]) & a bunch of 57mm ammo in a chain reaction- with all too tragic & predictable results for the kids.

Lord knows why the intel or EOD folks just left it there without checking to see if there was any ordinance or anything left in the wrecks- must have fallen through a bureaucratic crack, while it turned out that the contractor hired to remove potentially dangerous wrecks and ordinance had been engaging in systemic fraud- taking money but lying about actually doing the work; quite a few executives and managers ended up not only with federal fraud charges, but state murder charges (& under WA law, causing a death through actions demonstrating depraved indifference to human life is murder 1 and also grounds for an aggravated murder charge as is multiple victims.) Needless to say, several of them will only be getting out of prison in a box.

I also understand that there's quite a problem with unexploded ordinance in BC, but that doesn't get as much play in the local papers- maybe Pyro might have something to add on that subject.

DD951

TheMann said: ↑
Why would somebody waste a Harpoon on a Riga, it's like shooting a seagull with a 12-gauge. Salem's 5-inchers woulda sorted that, and if they didn't want to let it get that close, a Sparrow woulda done the deed in short order, too.
Well, they say there's no kill like overkill...

However, a Riga could have done some damage if given a chance- it's essentially a fast WW2 DE in terms of capability & size with 3 3" guns (wouldn't really have hurt Salem, but certainly could have done some damage to the screening units) and a couple 21" torpedo tubes- if it had modern anti-ship torpedos or been swapped out for anti-ship missiles, it wouldn't have been pretty if it got those off, and while SAMs such as SM-2 & ESSM do have an antiship capability, the actual warhead is about the same as a 3" shell, and it'd take a bit of time for the fires caused by the fuel to do their damage, while WW2 destroyer designs could take quite a bit of medium calibre gunfire before going down with a determined crew, so a Harpoon would have been the safest and quickest option- it may be overkill, but that's probably how I'd do it if I was screening a high-value unit.

Anyways, on my front, The Mexican Navy got a little more balsier today out of Veracruz, two Krivaks, two Osa Is and a Kashin, stormed out of the Marina north of the city and tried to hit Massachusetts and Newport News. One of the supply ships put the final insult on one of the Osas - she'd been hit by a Harpoon and was dead in the water, so one of supply ships (USS Lewis and Clark) decided to get in on the action themselves and ran over what was left of the missile boat - literally. When has a supply ship ever sank something before, anyways? The Navy guys called us out worried about the naval attack being something done as part of a co-ordinated attack (it wasn't) and we got to see the Kashin die. The bugger took four Harpoons to sink.
As for supply ships sinking stuff, I think that in the first 2 world wars, armed merchantmen did sink a few subs and perhaps the odd PT boat or equivalent through gunfire and ramming, while there was that one incident in WW2 where a Liberty Ship and a German auxillary cruiser sank each other in an intense action in the Indian Ocean. However, the fleet train is supposed to be kept out of the front line when possible, while ramming is usually discouraged except as a desperation measure- often, the ramming ship has to go back to the yard to fix the resulting hull damages, and TF commanders are understandibly unhappy with losing units that way.
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Jan 6, 2010
#1839

Wolfman

Matt Wiser said: ↑
OOC: Cabo San Lucas is on the southern tip of Baja.
OOC: Thanks.
IC: The people just love us... and the pay is even better than at El Toro. Must be the hazard pay.

BigWillyG

DD951 said: ↑
Well, they say there's no kill like overkill...

However, a Riga could have done some damage if given a chance- it's essentially a fast WW2 DE in terms of capability & size with 3 3" guns (wouldn't really have hurt Salem, but certainly could have done some damage to the screening units) and a couple 21" torpedo tubes- if it had modern anti-ship torpedos or been swapped out for anti-ship missiles, it wouldn't have been pretty if it got those off, and while SAMs such as SM-2 & ESSM do have an antiship capability, the actual warhead is about the same as a 3" shell, and it'd take a bit of time for the fires caused by the fuel to do their damage, while WW2 destroyer designs could take quite a bit of medium calibre gunfire before going down with a determined crew, so a Harpoon would have been the safest and quickest option- it may be overkill, but that's probably how I'd do it if I was screening a high-value unit.

As for supply ships sinking stuff, I think that in the first 2 world wars, armed merchantmen did sink a few subs and perhaps the odd PT boat or equivalent through gunfire and ramming, while there was that one incident in WW2 where a Liberty Ship and a German auxillary cruiser sank each other in an intense action in the Indian Ocean. However, the fleet train is supposed to be kept out of the front line when possible, while ramming is usually discouraged except as a desperation measure- often, the ramming ship has to go back to the yard to fix the resulting hull damages, and TF commanders are understandibly unhappy with losing units that way.
I saw a merchie sink a warship during the war. I think I told this story 10 pages back but on one of our convoy attacks a Polish merchie defected and cut a Petya in half that was trying to stop them defecting. Merchie had some damage but made it to Savannah ok. The Petya sank like a stone though.

[lordroel]

From page 93

Matt Wiser

One of my intelligence officers (a BYU poli-sci professor in her day job) took a look at the CNN footage from the Salem group v. the Riga. She saw the Harpoon slam into the Riga amidships; that frigate just blew right in half, and both halves sank like a stone. The CNN crew didn't say if any survivors were picked up, but they were expecting either shore guns or some coastal SSM activity, so the ships kept their distance.

The Arizona Republic had another story on the Tu-22 wreck: the EOD guys from Davis-Monthan have been on-site since this morning, and they're saying that they can recover the human remains, but it's very likely the wreck will have to be blown in place once that's done. The local coroner is there, and they've already notified DOD to see what the proceedure is for enemy remains. Panzerfaust, this may be something for you to take over on your trip to the Russian Republic and Ukraine-if you haven't already been notified. If the remains can't be ID'd, they'll be buried in a cemetery where a number of shot-down ComBloc aircrew were laid to rest. I would imagine the 58th TFTW at Luke is going over their records to find out who the shooter was and so forth.

The CNN crew in Mexico City managed an interview with the Mexican Premier today-anyone see it in between duty permitting? The man seems to be living in a fantasy world-he's claiming the PLDP is "insignificant" and that the U.S. invasion will be "speedily repulsed." All the while PLDP artillery and mortar fire was landing near the Presidential Palace and other government buildings. And belive me, it was intense: We did an armed recon over Mexico City today, and both sides ignored us, even though there were several SA-8s and -9s around, but they were more concerned with removing the other faction from the gene pool. The only bombs we dropped were on Juraez IAP again: the runways needed to stay out of action, as the repair crews have been too busy.....

Wolfman

DD951 said: ↑
I've never been to the Pt. Roberts Memorial Park- not exactly a place I ever want to see again after seeing the immediate aftermath of the massacre, but I understand it's pretty similar. From a glance at that NPS website, although there's only a half-dozen including Pt. Roberts here in WA, christ, there are dozens of them in the Southwest and Northern Plains states, each with its own tale of tragedy resulting from the depravity on those on the other side.......

Unexploded ordinance is a problem up here too- not a whole lot other than the stray bomb for most of the stuff on land, but a lot of warship wrecks, most of them having gone down with a good deal of ammo onboard, and over the years, there have been a couple dozen incidents were wreck divers and unlucky fisherman have gotten blown up by old warheads. That's on top of a disaster that happened about 10 years ago, where about three dozen children of elementary and junior high age at a summer camp in the San Juans were going on a trip to the beach, and from a video taken from a boat off-shore, the idiot camp counselors (5-6 of them) must have decided it was a good idea to let the kids play on the wreck of a Nanuchka I that had been beached in sinking condition during a small craft action in early 1987, and somehow, a SS-N-9 in the wreck got jarred or something, and it detonated (1100 lb HE warhead + rocket fuel), setting off a couple other missiles (SS-N-9s & SA-N-4 SAMs [naval version of a SA-8 Gecko]) & a bunch of 57mm ammo in a chain reaction- with all too tragic & predictable results for the kids.

Lord knows why the intel or EOD folks just left it there without checking to see if there was any ordinance or anything left in the wrecks- must have fallen through a bureaucratic crack, while it turned out that the contractor hired to remove potentially dangerous wrecks and ordinance had been engaging in systemic fraud- taking money but lying about actually doing the work; quite a few executives and managers ended up not only with federal fraud charges, but state murder charges (& under WA law, causing a death through actions demonstrating depraved indifference to human life is murder 1 and also grounds for an aggravated murder charge as is multiple victims.) Needless to say, several of them will only be getting out of prison in a box.

I also understand that there's quite a problem with unexploded ordinance in BC, but that doesn't get as much play in the local papers- maybe Pyro might have something to add on that subject.
That was one hell of an explosion! I remember a Staff Sergeant with 242, while I was a Major, comparing it to that Jap torpedo storage bunker that the Navy detonated on Roi in WWII. The guy was a real history buff, as am I, with the Pacific Theater of Operations being my favorite part, well, I took one look at the video and agreed with the Sarge about the explosion. Talk about some dumb people...:eek:

Matt Wiser

The locals do like that hazardous-duty pay we get whenever a unit deploys to Baja-we tend to spend more. It seems DOD plans to continue that: even if the PLDP wins down in Mexico City and elsewhere, that bunch still insists on "reclaiming" Baja. Fat chance of that. They'll do what we tell them, or the tanks roll a bit further south.

Any sign of either the Cuban MAAG or the one from the Rump USSR? We've been told they were in-country, and that some of the MiGs have (or had) Cuban pilots, but our intel officer hasn't heard much since the shooting started. The Cubans don't have a friendly country to return to, so it's either fight, or flee down to Caracas-along with the Soviets.

Seems there was a small counterattack against III Corps today; CNN's crew with 1st Cav was doing a live shot from the front lines when a regiment-plus of armor and mech infantry tried pushing up towards Monterrey (which 1st Cav owns now). First time I've seen a brigade of M-1s and Bradleys, with Apache support, fight it out on live TV. The T-55s and BTR-152s went up pretty fast, and the attack fizzled out before it really got going. Nice try, amigos...CNN is on 24 hours in the 352nd's O-Club, and it's always packed these days, with two wings' worth down here.

Wolfman

Matt Wiser said: ↑
The locals do like that hazardous-duty pay we get whenever a unit deploys to Baja-we tend to spend more. It seems DOD plans to continue that: even if the PLDP wins down in Mexico City and elsewhere, that bunch still insists on "reclaiming" Baja. Fat chance of that. They'll do what we tell them, or the tanks roll a bit further south.

Any sign of either the Cuban MAAG or the one from the Rump USSR? We've been told they were in-country, and that some of the MiGs have (or had) Cuban pilots, but our intel officer hasn't heard much since the shooting started. The Cubans don't have a friendly country to return to, so it's either fight, or flee down to Caracas-along with the Soviets.

Seems there was a small counterattack against III Corps today; CNN's crew with 1st Cav was doing a live shot from the front lines when a regiment-plus of armor and mech infantry tried pushing up towards Monterrey (which 1st Cav owns now). First time I've seen a brigade of M-1s and Bradleys, with Apache support, fight it out on live TV. The T-55s and BTR-152s went up pretty fast, and the attack fizzled out before it really got going. Nice try, amigos...CNN is on 24 hours in the 352nd's O-Club, and it's always packed these days, with two wings' worth down here.
What's your opinion on the explosion of that wrecked FAC on the beach in the San Juans about ten years ago, and the fact that the counselors let their charges play on it?

Matt Wiser

Anyone involved ought to have been shot. The company supposed to clear the wreck (and ordnance), I hope got sued out of business (wrongful death, negligence, etc, as well as fraud), and the counselors (assuming they survived) should've been held liable in both civil and criminal proceedings.

DD951

Matt Wiser said: ↑
Anyone involved ought to have been shot. The company supposed to clear the wreck (and ordnance), I hope got sued out of business (wrongful death, negligence, etc, as well as fraud), and the counselors (assuming they survived) should've been held liable in both civil and criminal proceedings.
IIRC, all the counselors there were killed, although as they were high-school and college students, and thus were pretty much judgment proof (or rather their estates were.) However, the director and the assistant who owned the camp, as well as its owner got hit with a fairly big judgment that exceeded the insurance, and the families ended up owning the camp.

The contractor company did go out of buisness- most of its assets were seized in civil forfieture proceedings, and what was left was liquidated for the benefit of the families. As much as people wanted to have those executives shot (a National Guard MP company trained in riot duty had to be activated to beef up security- can't have lynch mobs circumventing the justice system), to actually go for a death sentence, WA tends to require that the killing be intentional, and something more, such as killing a public servant, doing something nasty to the victims over and above killing them, killing multiple people, targeting a journalist over a story they wrote, DV situations, etc. (more a mix o prosecutorial practice, jury decisions, and court rulings); although the conduct of the contractor in its fraud was reckless to the point of demonstrating depraved indifference, they didn't actually intend to kill people, so no death sentences, much to the chagrin of the public who didn't care too much about the legal nuances, and that probably cost the San Juan County prosecutor the next election.

Matt Wiser

Hey Mann: you get the same orders we got? This came to us from 10th Air Force: "Do not interfere with MexGov and PLDP hostilities unless tracked by SAM or AAA radar." Best to let them fight it out amongst themselves and we'll dictate to the winner, hmm? We asked about MiGs or other aircraft, and were told, ""If it flies, it dies. Simple as that." Seems SOUTHCOM's declared the rest of the country a No-Fly Zone.

The Arizona Republic had another story on the Blinder wreck; the remains of the crew were recovered and sent to the State Crime Lab in Phoenix for examination before they are handed over to DOD. The EOD team is going to have to blow the AS-4, as it's too dangerous to disarm and the fuel is toxic. It does make one wonder how many other wrecks are in the mountains of Arizona, Utah, and Western New Mexico-there were quite a few dogfights between Luke F-15s and ComBloc aircraft between 1985-87, when Ivan gave up his strategic bombing effort (which was half-hearted anyway) and concentrated on CAS and interdiction work. (We in 335 did some CAP and interception, but at least 75% of our tasking was air-to-ground)

Hollywood's getting in on another war story: the crew of Baron 55 is going to be the subject of an HBO movie later this year. They'll film in the Philippines and in Hong Kong. No casting announced yet, but the producers are hoping to have that taken care of in a few weeks. The AF is going to help with some filming at Eaker AFB, as they have the last G model Buffs in service (97th BW) and Baron 55 was a G. Getting a two-year trek told in a two hour movie is going to be a problem, just like the Scott brothers had to compress 335's story of four years of war into a 135-minute movie. Not sure who I'd cast in the male roles, but I'd try and get Jennifer Garner in the role of the lone female crew member!

sloreck

Anyone from Texas or Oklahoma hear what I heard? My civil affairs friends in the Corps let me know that contracts already have been let for oilfield service companies to come down and get all the infrastructure in our occupied zones up & pumping ASAP. My understanding is the oil will be sold on the international market with proceeds going to: pay for the rehab & operations of the fields, reparations, and relief costs for Mexican refugees - we're going to charge Mexico for every "humanitarian" MRE we hand out & every roll of TP etc. Also heard that all offshore wells in the Gulf of Mexico are under our control & the Coast Guard is setting up dets on platforms & will use a couple of the bigger ones to base cutters - some Marines are there for response squads & MANPAD AAA missiles & of course the Navy is still out there. Heard rumors that at least some of the offshore rigs that are way out will be tied in to our undersea pipelines & we will keep them permanently.

On the clown front, any confirmation of those folks making it to Caracas? Maybe the lawyers can answer this, why didn't we declare all of Meican airspace no fly, even for 3rd nation carriers & require any we'd let in to file flight plans & manifests with us - or get shot down, or require them to go from Mexico to Cabo & then where ever to prevent escape of war criminals etc? Just a dumb grunt doc & history student, but thought something like that would be legal......

Matt Wiser

Not sure why SOUTHCOM didn't declare the whole country a no-fly zone, but sometimes those with stars on their shoulders do confuse those below. Unless it was the State Department (for whatever reason). Assuming the bug-out to Caracas is still going, this was no doubt pre-planned in the event of us coming south. Anything south of Mexico City is the Navy's ball game, so if the Tomcats and Hornets are on the ball....And there's no confirmation of anyone making a successful escape, though if anyone's been snatched during the refueling stops, we won't know for a while.

Why not hang onto those offshore fields and rigs? They owe us a lot, with interest. And the patrol and interdiction work is some of what the Coasties do-not just Search-and-Rescue. Making the enemy pay an indemnity is as old as war itself, so no surprise there.

Matt Wiser

Hey guys, speaking of lefties, that ex-CU prof who hid his "auxiliary" service-and wound up getting not only fired, but driven out of the country, got found in Managua, of all places. The Nicaraguans have been staunchly anti-communist since their coup, but he and two other lefties were in a third-party aircraft that landed in Managua to refuel. The airport authorities saw their faces on the "Wanted" posters that the U.S. Embassy puts out, and stalled long enough for "guys in black" to show up at the airport and grab all three. They got hustled aboard a plane that landed an hour later, and they're no doubt headed back to Dallas or Houston to face the music. No idea about charges, yet, but indictments on all three are sealed. Both CNN and Fox have the story. Who owned the plane? Good question: it was a Beech King Air registered in the Dominican Republic, but may be a front for the lunatic down in Caracas. That blowhard filmmaker was on BBC America's news tonight (the Sheraton here in La Paz gets it on satellite) and he was railing about "land thievery and wanton disregard for human life." We may not be able to get down there, but someday, there's a cruise missile with this guy's name on it. And the radio station he broadcasts from, too, while we're at it.

Hey JN1: any of your friends who served in Hong Kong remember the Baron 55 crew? I got an e-mail from DOD's movie liasion office in L.A.; seems they're looking for people who ran into them either before their fateful mission, or were there when they walked out of the mess called China.

Nikephoros

I'm just hoping someone assassinates that wacko in Caracas. His war to sieze the Amazon is starting to really piss off the natives.

BigWillyG

I'd bet Brazil and Columbia are working on that.

BigWillyG

Just got word from my neice, her units holding onto whats left of Vera Cruz and basically operating as the only police force around since all the Mexican military and police either deserted or are too busy fighting each other.

Matt Wiser

How bad is it down in Vera Cruz? The PLDP and the MexGov aren't just fighting in Mexico City, you know. We saw a nasty fight while on armed recon near Mazatlan-only this time, the MexGov won that one: they had the tanks and artillery and rolled right over the other side. But one of 'em decided to light us up with a ZSU-23-4, and then we rolled in on this tank regiment...they got a well-deserved smacking.

That loony in Caracas has threatened the Dutch Antillies and French Guyana in the past, so no surprise there he's in a low-level fight with Brazil and Colombia. Sooner or later, he'll overstretch himself, like the Argentines did in '82 with the Brits, and that will be that.

Well, that Blinder wreck is no more: The Arizona Republic's web edition had video of the EOD guys blowing the AS-4, and it blew up big. They recovered the bodies of the crew, and after the Coroner did his job, the remains were turned over to DOD.

Wolfman

Matt Wiser said: ↑
Hey Mann: you get the same orders we got? This came to us from 10th Air Force: "Do not interfere with MexGov and PLDP hostilities unless tracked by SAM or AAA radar." Best to let them fight it out amongst themselves and we'll dictate to the winner, hmm? We asked about MiGs or other aircraft, and were told, ""If it flies, it dies. Simple as that." Seems SOUTHCOM's declared the rest of the country a No-Fly Zone.

The Arizona Republic had another story on the Blinder wreck; the remains of the crew were recovered and sent to the State Crime Lab in Phoenix for examination before they are handed over to DOD. The EOD team is going to have to blow the AS-4, as it's too dangerous to disarm and the fuel is toxic. It does make one wonder how many other wrecks are in the mountains of Arizona, Utah, and Western New Mexico-there were quite a few dogfights between Luke F-15s and ComBloc aircraft between 1985-87, when Ivan gave up his strategic bombing effort (which was half-hearted anyway) and concentrated on CAS and interdiction work. (We in 335 did some CAP and interception, but at least 75% of our tasking was air-to-ground)

Hollywood's getting in on another war story: the crew of Baron 55 is going to be the subject of an HBO movie later this year. They'll film in the Philippines and in Hong Kong. No casting announced yet, but the producers are hoping to have that taken care of in a few weeks. The AF is going to help with some filming at Eaker AFB, as they have the last G model Buffs in service (97th BW) and Baron 55 was a G. Getting a two-year trek told in a two hour movie is going to be a problem, just like the Scott brothers had to compress 335's story of four years of war into a 135-minute movie. Not sure who I'd cast in the male roles, but I'd try and get Jennifer Garner in the role of the lone female crew member!
My Marines are really bitching about those orders...

Matt Wiser

You're not the only one upset, but still, best to let the MexGov and the PLDP bunch fight it out, and pick up the pieces (and bodies) afterwards. My intel officer is wondering who dropped the ball: no one expected a civil war down in Mexico if we crossed the border. Someone at CIA is probably trying to cover his you-know-what for that piece of wisdom-or lack thereof. At least if any MiGs are still flyable, we get to knock them down if any of their pilots get a case of the stupids. And if those ground-pounders have a death wish and light us up with SAMs or AAA radar, well.....

Wolfman

Matt Wiser said: ↑
You're not the only one upset, but still, best to let the MexGov and the PLDP bunch fight it out, and pick up the pieces (and bodies) afterwards. My intel officer is wondering who dropped the ball: no one expected a civil war down in Mexico if we crossed the border. Someone at CIA is probably trying to cover his you-know-what for that piece of wisdom-or lack thereof. At least if any MiGs are still flyable, we get to knock them down if any of their pilots get a case of the stupids. And if those ground-pounders have a death wish and light us up with SAMs or AAA radar, well.....
Mine, too. Why not let us go in and finish off the airfields and anti-aircraft emplacements?

DD951

Matt Wiser said: ↑
My intel officer is wondering who dropped the ball: no one expected a civil war down in Mexico if we crossed the border. Someone at CIA is probably trying to cover his you-know-what for that piece of wisdom-or lack thereof.
Probably the same guy who somehow failed to notice that big army the Soviets were putting together down there all those years ago...

Matt Wiser

That wouldn't surprise me at all. How much warning did we have, anyway? A lot of that stuff is still classified. "Sources and methods" is the excuse given. Didn't the Joint Congressional Committee spend a lot of time and money looking at that failure: "The worst U.S. intelligence failure since Pearl Harbor, and the worst in U.S. history" is what the report says. And I'll go along with that.

Hey 951, they nailed somebody wanted up in your neck of the woods. Some member of the "Socialist Freedom Party" who tried blowing up power lines leading to Boeing's Renton plant in 1987 was found at a beach condo in Kimo Bay. He was under an assumed name, but had quite a comfy existence, with a stipend paid by the Mexicans and...other parties. Does the name Carl Stanton ring a bell? 5th Armored Division got him this morning, according to CNN. 5th AD's press briefing said the schmuck was singing like a canary when the grunts hauled him in. No statute of limitations on wartime sabotage, I do believe, and this guy may very well have a date with the noose if he doesn't plead out.

Nikephoros

Matt Wiser said: ↑
"The worst U.S. intelligence failure since Pearl Harbor, and the worst in U.S. history" is what the report says. And I'll go along with that.
Talk about one hell of an understatement.

[lordroel]

From page 94

Wolfman

Nikephoros said: ↑
Talk about one hell of an understatement.

AdirondackSeperatist

During the War, I don't really have vivid memories of the start of it as I was a small child being only 3 years of age in 1985. At that time my family lived in Upstate New York. I do have some memories of the initial attack as the television newscaster was very sternly and seriously reading the names of places I've never heard of and numbers that I couldn't yet comprehend. My mother was going out of her mind crying and rocking me back and forth whilst my father ran throughout the apartment we lived in throwing objects into bags, and trying frantically to reach relatives via the phone.

The next few years was -as I was later told afterwards- hard. I remember being hungry a lot, and the power and water would cut in and out mostly because most of the trained technical people who usually handled utility maintenance were immediatley recruited by the federal government to use for military purposes. My father, who was in his late twenties at the time enlisted in the New York National Guard where he was shipped southwest to reinforce troops holding the line in the Southern great plains (I didn't get to see him again until mid-late 1989).

Halfwar through 1987 My mother took myself to live with her parents in Glens Falls NY. She eventually got an administrative job in Albany NY working for the department of defense that she would communte to every day.

Indeed, at this point Albany had become a major federal hub for the northeast US as an important staging and tatical planning center. the city became invaluable for not only coordinating homeland battlefield operations, but also as a city that acted as a defacto capital for the Alliance nations (America, Canada, Britain, and China) being relativle sheltered by terrain and geography and heavily reinforced by Federal and some Canadian troops.

We remained in this situation until the war ended in 1989, I often wonder the type of person I have become if I had never been 'tested' like I was in those years.

Wolfman

Hmm, I remember a couple of missions supporting the New York National Guard when I was with 533. They fought alongside the 2nd Marine Division at Baton Rouge. Tough guys, especially the infantry, who had a knack for calling in Marine CAS at just the right time to shatter enemy attacks on their positions.

AdirondackSeperatist

Yeah wolfman, I've heard a few stories from my father about the days of the invaision. Although hes mostly mum on many things, he did tell me how much he enjoyed hearing the shreik of air support comming in.

Those instances of course were after he was in for a year a little more than battle hardened. According to my dad, most of the NYNG guys were just suburban kids and city boys and they were understandably scared and sent in hastily with little in the way of training, mostly becasue Governor Cuomo (that asshole) was anxious to make a name for himself out of this war.

Many of these boys died immediatley or went AWOL and hid with the other deserters in West Virgina. My dad was lucky few who grew up on a farm and could shoot, handle the dirt and mud, and knew what guts looked like.

I'm not sure if his unit specifically ever operated with any Marines, although they did run a lot of join operations under Army command with Vermont National Guard in western Tennessee and the southern foothills of the appalachians before being moved to the front lines in '88. Of course the Vermonters would only be called the green mountain boys. They often lacked good gear and organization as well. But dammed if they wern't the sneakiest bunch of sonsofbitches you'd ever have the misfortune fighting a geurilla war against... According to my dad. When he was on the front lines they routinely sent vermonters into occupied territory to asist American partisan operations and relay recon info.

Wolfman

Well, I was working as a FAC during LONG RIFLE and worked with some guys from the NYNG. Was your dad in on that?

Matt Wiser

I took a look at an online OB for the U.S. Army during the war, and it has two NY NG units listed. 42nd ID (M) (the "Rainbow" Division) and the 27th Infantry Brigdade (L). 27th IB fought in Louisiana, while 42nd ID was at St. Louis, then later on, Northern Arkansas and NE Texas. They ended the war at Roma, Texas, on the Rio Grande. 27th IB helped clear Houston and Corpus Christi, and ended the war in the Rio Grande Valley NW of Brownsville.

Kara got #2 today: one of the PLDP's choppers-a Hip-came up while she was leading a flight on an armed recon. The Sidewinder she fired was the only ordnance expended-this time. That's #14 in her score sheet. Not exactly a MiG or Sukhoi, but a kill's a kill.

We were watching CNN in between mission briefs (more armed recon-again), and the UN finally got around to having a session on what they called "American operations in Northern Mexico." The Rump USSR, NK, and the MexGov called it "Blatant Imperialist Aggression" (but what else is new?), and demanded the Security Council take some action. After the council members had their say, the vote was 13-1-1 against the Rump USSR's resolution. The yea vote was the Soviet one, the abstention was Argentina, and everyone else voted against. After it was over, the Soviet delegation (along with the NKs and MexGov) walked out-again.

Wolfman

Yeah, the 27th IB was a bunch of tough SOBs, for Army-types. Last I heard they were one of the few units designated as 'Honorary Marines'. They deserve it, big time. I worked with them during the Liberation of Houston as their FAC, since the Battalion Commander had a preference for Marine Air, like Gen. MacArthur in the Phillipines during WWII.

AdirondackSeperatist

You know, Judging by Matt's description I'd have to say that he was with the 42nd (I'll have to double check on that when I see him later), I remember my dad telling me he ended up in Texarkana before one of the last pushes into Texas in conjunction with action from one of the lonestar partisan groups. He doesnt really talk much about what he did in texas, I don't ask him, As we all know Texas was bloodbath at the conclusion of the war. I have a feeling that my dad participated in the roundup and liquidation of many of the complicit elements in Texas, those being local turncoat politicians, and Mexican soldiers who deserted and attempted to blend in with the local Hispanic population.

Anyways wolfman, thanks for your service, with folks like you and my father I wouldnt have the pleasure to be here today as a proud and free American.

Wolfman

You're quite welcome.

BigWillyG

I went to school and was freinds with a lot of guys who ended up in NYNG. My best freind from high school ended up leading B company in one of the regiments of the 27th by the end of the war. We talk about the war sometimes. I'm always glad I was a sailor when we talk since he saw alot of horrible things in the land combat. As it was B company was raised out of Broome county with a few from Oneida and Delaware.
Syracuse area ANG also had an active war if anyone ran into them.

AdirondackSeperatist

Location:Potsdam and Saratoga Springs Ny
Its quite obvious from the past that those pinko sonsofbitches didn't use enough nukes on us :cool: History Lesson Kids.

On a more serious note I'm often angry though that our submarine fleet heeded orders to NOT retaliate. WTF. If I had been in command of a nuke sub I wouldve Vaporized every soviet city within range... Lucky they didn't so we still habitable planet.. Still though, anyone else mildly bitter about the invasion? So many Americans and Canadians slaughtered for no reason. What do we get? Protracted ground operations in Northern Mexico and an elevated cancer rate? The Europeans can go suck a d**k too.

Matt Wiser

The Wing from Syracuse (174th TFW) was A-10 equipped, and they went up north-flew out of a civilian airport in Washington, on CAS/BAI missions up in the Pacific NW. The Air War College history says they missed the Seattle amphib as they were busy along the area where Idaho, Washington, and British Columbia meet: seems Ivan had some kind of operation going at the same time there, and our guys were screaming for A-10s. Too bad: it would've been nice to see what those 30-mm GAU-8 guns could inflict on a ship...

DD951

Matt Wiser said: ↑
That wouldn't surprise me at all. How much warning did we have, anyway? A lot of that stuff is still classified. "Sources and methods" is the excuse given. Didn't the Joint Congressional Committee spend a lot of time and money looking at that failure: "The worst U.S. intelligence failure since Pearl Harbor, and the worst in U.S. history" is what the report says. And I'll go along with that.
Yeah, I saw that, truly incredible, and having had some access to the classified part, I'll just say that that article in the Onion last week claiming that the reason was that the CIA types experimenting with mind-control and using LSD and other drugs to mess with assorted people inadvertently using the CIA types responsible for watching out for stuff like that build-up would be a lot more palatable had it happened, than some of what really did. If they were military, they would have deserved to have been court-martialed for dereliction of duty and just about anything else in the UCMJ that has half a chance of sticking in a case of incompetence and willfull blindness.

Hey 951, they nailed somebody wanted up in your neck of the woods. Some member of the "Socialist Freedom Party" who tried blowing up power lines leading to Boeing's Renton plant in 1987 was found at a beach condo in Kimo Bay. He was under an assumed name, but had quite a comfy existence, with a stipend paid by the Mexicans and...other parties. Does the name Carl Stanton ring a bell? 5th Armored Division got him this morning, according to CNN. 5th AD's press briefing said the schmuck was singing like a canary when the grunts hauled him in. No statute of limitations on wartime sabotage, I do believe, and this guy may very well have a date with the noose if he doesn't plead out.
Heard of that guy- one of those on the most wanted list up here- did that, and a couple firebombings of recruiting stations at night, vandalizing electrical substations, a botched carbombing attempt outside an Everett bar popular with sailors, and is a person of interest in the unsolved murders of a couple soliders and sailors, although from the evidence, it's unclear whether it was random assassination or just muggings gone bad. Overall, he was a rather inept low-level type- think of some of the crazies in the 60s who were into burning ROTC buildings and that sort of stuff, but just as much of a danger to themselves as their intended targets. However, since most of that is terroristic activities during wartime, that'd probably be military jurisdiction, while if it turns out that he did those murders, that would be military if it was done because they were in the service, and if it was just a robbery, that'd be a state matter- probably just a question of who gets to hang him if he doesn't plead out.

Wolfman

Well, I hope the runt sonvabitch swings for those murders, assuming it's proven that he did it.

JN1

Don't beat up the CIA too badly, it's not as if any other Western intelligence agency spotted the Soviet build-up, or if they did put all the pieces together.

Matt Wiser

The Congressional Investigation blamed CIA, DIA, etc, though to be fair, some of those involved at those agencies never made it out of D.C. after the bomb went off. The DEA actually had some good intel, the Committee found, as some of their informants were reporting on the buildup along the Rio Grande, but the HUMINT was dismissed by the CIA as "overly exaggerated"-as one Senator put it.

Anyone hear this on the news today? Seems the PLDP has contacted U.S. forces at several locations, and is asking for official recognition as the legitimate government of Mexico, and is promising "Prompt action to resolve outstanding wartime issues between the two countries." No word yet from the State Department, though I imagine it's being talked about in Philly. The Mexican Government is still shreiking "Resistance to Death Against the Invaders and Traitors" but things with them seem finally to be falling down. About freaking time. The CNN crew in Mexico City had a real report other than being on a satellite phone for the first time in a few days: Most of the capital is in the hands of the PLDP's forces, though there's still fighting in the southern part of the city. Most of the cities in Central Mexico have finally gone to the PLDP. It looks like it's almost over, guys. One more score settled. Now all we need is the Rump USSR and the NKs to fall-for good.

Hey JN, don't know if you saw this earlier, but did anyone you know who was in Hong Kong in March of '89 remember the Baron 55 crew when they arrived at the border? I got another call from a movie producer and DOD's liasion office in Hollywood, asking for info on the crew (current contact info, story details not in the book, etc). The E&E that crew had in two years of wandering thru the chaos that was (and still is) China is still taught today in survival schools and at ROTC, OCS, and the AF Academy (expanded version of the book in the latter-there's classified stuff in the former). They did have some harrowing adventures with various warlords and PLA units still loyal to the vaporized government, not to mention bandits, rambunctious separatists in some areas, etc. You'd be surprised how many of those warlord types tried to get the lone female (the copilot) to "stay with us" in exchange for safe passage for the rest of the crew....Sometimes her black belt in Judo came in very handy.

DD951

AdirondackSeperatist said: ↑
Its quite obvious from the past that those pinko sonsofbitches didn't use enough nukes on us :cool: History Lesson Kids.

On a more serious note I'm often angry though that our submarine fleet heeded orders to NOT retaliate. WTF. If I had been in command of a nuke sub I wouldve Vaporized every soviet city within range... Lucky they didn't so we still habitable planet.. Still though, anyone else mildly bitter about the invasion? So many Americans and Canadians slaughtered for no reason. What do we get? Protracted ground operations in Northern Mexico and an elevated cancer rate? The Europeans can go suck a d**k too.
Okay, take an even strain, son- SSBN officers, especially captains, XOs, and missile officers, go through some fairly extensive screening and training to make sure that they only launch if they have a valid order to, and to do whatever it takes to make sure that no launch occurs without a valid order, as a launch requires several officers to take action in concert at several points in the process.

Those of us who were there are still bitter about it, the fighting, all the friends we lost, and the atrocities we saw, all because those SOBs in the Soviet Politburo decided a foreign adventure was the best way to maintain their grip on power in the face of an impending political and economic meltdown. About the only good things beside the survival of the western world to come out of that was that it led to the collapse of the communist block and the discrediting of communism outside of a few rogue states and some delusional, generally disliked idiots here and elsewhere.

And lay off the Europeans- the Brits were right there with us, and even if most of continental governments weren't willing to get involved and some were even being run by Soviet stooges, some increased their forces committed to NATO deployments so that we could redeploy our forces in Europe back home as reinforcements. More to the point, even if a lot of the governments went sideways, the people both inside and outside their militaries had their hearts in the right place, as there were a lot of people who volunteered to fight with us, both military and civilian, including in some cases, military units and detachments that were in the US or nearby, sometimes in defiance of their own governments, as was the case with a German destroyer and frigate I saw during the Battle of Vancouver and on some of the Alaska convoy runs. Other posters have mentioned things such as AF & Navy squadrons of European volunteers, assorted training and liason groups attaching themselves to Army & Marine Corps formations, and several units of volunteers ranging from company to brigade size, including an interesting Irish one which was at Denver, and apparently had a lot of IRA and Loyalist Paramilitary types from Northern Ireland in it.

lukedalton

AdirondackSeperatist said: ↑
Its quite obvious from the past that those pinko sonsofbitches didn't use enough nukes on us :cool: History Lesson Kids.

On a more serious note I'm often angry though that our submarine fleet heeded orders to NOT retaliate. WTF. If I had been in command of a nuke sub I wouldve Vaporized every soviet city within range... Lucky they didn't so we still habitable planet.. Still though, anyone else mildly bitter about the invasion? So many Americans and Canadians slaughtered for no reason. What do we get? Protracted ground operations in Northern Mexico and an elevated cancer rate? The Europeans can go suck a d**k too.
Young man, you and most of your generation convenientely forget that without we europeans the official language of the USA will be russian.
Sure, initially we have stayed out of the conflict , officially, but first try to understand our position... right in front of 60 soviet tank division and not counting the rest of the old warsaw pact (and the thounsand of soviet tactical nukes ). The genius in the politburo thinked they can steamroll America so they class A division were not initially all transported on the american or canadian front, but keep ready to cover their back and scaring us in not helping our former ally, so image if they were part of the initial invasion. As all you learned, a ground war fight inside your nation is not a pretty thing, so you can understan if we were reticent to repeat the experience of our fathers and grandfathers, for heaven sake we have cleared Italy from world war II mines just ten years ago (true in OTL)
Still we have helped, turning a blind eye when volunteers tried to go in america or looking shocked;) when entire unite 'mutined' and joined the US force and all the information your naval and air unit casually receivedo helped a lot i humble think, finally simply keep warsaw pact force in europe for protection against an Europen attack, because no governament even the more left leaned accepted the non aggression/friendship treaty that the soviet proposed not long after the war begin, meanead less force avaible against you
Ironic isn't it? For long time we italian, french and german have asked to ourself if the USA were ready to sacrifice New York for Brest or Venice? But in the end the question was: Is Europe ready to sacrifice Paris or Berlin for Peoria.

Matt Wiser

There were quite a few West Europeans here on exchange duty, and when their home governments recalled them (being Soviet stooges or just plain frightened into neutrality), they refused-to a man. Some military and intelligence services maintained intelligence-sharing and other activities, quietly and without fuss. Others (like the Turks, Israelis, Egyptians, Japanese, ROKs, Aussies, Kiwis) were more blatant with such things as supplying arms, intelligence, and from the Aussies, even food. (with half the Great Plains under enemy occupation or affected by the ICBM bases in the Dakotas being hit-the Wheat from Australia and Argentina helped out a lot) And South America was staunchly anti-communist, or as one Brazilian General said to an LA Times reporter after some leftists tried seizing the Defense Ministry and the U.S. Embassy in Brasilia, "We don't have a Scorched Earth policy, we have a Scorched Communist policy." (down there, that could be taken literally, and in some places like Chile or Peru, it was.) Of all the Central American countries, Belize and Costa Rica were neutral, Panama had some nasty fights over the canal, and Nicaragua, El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatamala were ComBloc.

AdirondackSeperatist

I'm not anti-european, I dont hate the european people or blame them, but the european governments' decisions for themselves had grave reprocussions on us. Was it not primarily Europe that forced the dissolution of NATO by deserting it? When NATO went in mid '85 it basically gave the Soviets and their lacky states the political will to plan and impliment their operation. So did the Europeans mean harm? No. Did they contribute to its cause? Yes.

Regardless, I do agree with the assertion that the war in the end wasn't a bad result for us. Indeed how many of us in the US or Canada would ever truley appreciate what we have if we never had to give our lives to defend and preserve it? I shutter to think the apathy and nhilsm that could have developed among us without a kick in the ass. For that, I give Ivan and Jose a hearty "thanks"...

P.S I don't include the British Isles when I refer to Europe despite the technical definition.

The Brits were afterall with us there the entire time.

[lordroel]

From page 95

TheMann

AdirondackSeperatist said: ↑
Its quite obvious from the past that those pinko sonsofbitches didn't use enough nukes on us :cool: History Lesson Kids.

On a more serious note I'm often angry though that our submarine fleet heeded orders to NOT retaliate. WTF. If I had been in command of a nuke sub I wouldve Vaporized every soviet city within range... Lucky they didn't so we still habitable planet.. Still though, anyone else mildly bitter about the invasion? So many Americans and Canadians slaughtered for no reason. What do we get? Protracted ground operations in Northern Mexico and an elevated cancer rate? The Europeans can go suck a d**k too.
The Europeans had a much different situation than us. We have a much bigger army than them, and all of the European nations had little hope of stopping of the Red Army, and they figured it was better to live to fight another day. Lots, including virtually the entire French and British Navies, got the hell out of dodge to fight where they could win. Most of those Navies turned up at Norfolk ready to haul ass, and haul ass they did. Prince Andrew himself plucked one of my fellow Marine F-4 pilots out of the Gulf of Mexico from a helo from HMS Invincible. One of the British subs got a Kirov on the way out, and lots of RAF Tornados and French Mirage F1s turned up ready to fight. Two RAF Tornado ADVs crews saved my neck over Arkansas, something which I never have forgotten. (When I was over in the UK, I found the two pilots and one of RIOs, and bought their drinks at the O-Club at the air base. The one who wasn't still in the RAF is now a lawyer in London, and I bought him a bottle of good Johnnie Walker whiskey. His 14-year-old son thought I was the shit, too.

Thousands of British soldiers flew airliners here and promptly volunteered for US service. There were by the end of the war two entire British divisions in America, all with American equipment (M1A1/M1A2 Abrams, Bradleys, M113s, Humvees, Blackhawks/Twin Hueys/Hueys, Apaches) but with British command. The guy who won in the Falklands also led the British forces during our fight in the Atlantic. I escorted bomber forces including Avro Vulcans during the Siege of Houston, and by then the British had modified them with external hardpoints, so that they carried a plenty-serious wallop.

I am reading a book right now about the actions of the RAF and RN during WWIII. The first two chapters was organizing the bailout. They made everything that they still had that could work run, and I do mean EVERYTHING. The Queen Elizabeth II sailed from Portsmouth to Halifax, and then spent the war as a hospital ship, right next to most of the British liners. The Europeans also sent anything they could our way. USAF tankers refueled European planes flying over the Atlantic, British, French, Danish, Italian, Belgian and Dutch planes bugged out, turned up in the US and promptly joined the USAF. And when the tide began turning in the US and the Russians began sending everything they had into the US, the Europeans jumped back on board - and five divisions of Wehrmacht showed up in America just in time for Operation Prairie Fire, and lots and lots of armaments showed up in the USA with "Made in Britain" or "Made in France" or "Made in Germany" on them.

As for the boomer guys, I think most of them knew that using nukes was a guaranteed way to cause both countries to cease to exist. And none of us were willing to do that, and I think we can all be glad about that. I never had to carry any nuclear weapons, and I am very glad of that. The Ohios were feared by the Russians by the end of the war anyways, usually because they were nearly undetectable and some of the more daring boomer drivers took shots at ComBloc ships anyways. One even got a Kiev-class carrier.

Matt Wiser

Hey Mann, been busy? It's been a strange war, hasn't it? Here in Baja, two days on, one off, and there's talk that the 366th may get sent home in a few days if the PLDP comes out on top and the MexGov finally falls.
Did you see the post earlier about Kara finally getting #2 of this fracas? Too bad it was a Hip and not a fast-mover, but a kill's a kill! I've gotten my two, but I'm not complaining. A lot less action that we thought before, but then again, I don't have any letters to write, and I'm sure glad about that; Lisa hasn't had to either, and neither has Tony Nealy-the CO of the 352nd; we all had a toast in the bar at the La Paz Sheraton to that.

The Scott brothers got a hold of me via e-mail: both the 419th and 366th will get advance screenings of Wings of the Phantom (final title) before the premiere. And the DVD will be a Director's Cut, with a half-hour of footage not in the theatrical release. (including an extra scene with Kristy Swanson as the naked CSP gal before the play between her and her boyfriend were rudely interrupted by the Cuban SOF-we still get a kick out of that, and the guys in the 352nd love the story. What's your take on having Jennifer Garner play the Baron 55 co-pilot in the HBO movie about that crew?

You know, given how as Baja's now a state, don't be surprised if there's a movement in the security zone we hold now to do the same. Even though we need more territory like a hole in the head, and Baja is/was a special case, it's been mentioned on the news. CNN's crew with 1st Cav in Monterrey had footage of a pro-statehood rally outside the City Hall there. My bet is that we'll let anyone who wants to come to the U.S. with us when the pullback happens, and put them in line for U.S. citizenship. Even the PLDP has been saying nasty things about those helping us out since the tanks crossed and headed south of the border.

Pyro

AdirondackSeperatist said: ↑
Its quite obvious from the past that those pinko sonsofbitches didn't use enough nukes on us :cool: History Lesson Kids.

On a more serious note I'm often angry though that our submarine fleet heeded orders to NOT retaliate. WTF. If I had been in command of a nuke sub I wouldve Vaporized every soviet city within range... Lucky they didn't so we still habitable planet.. Still though, anyone else mildly bitter about the invasion? So many Americans and Canadians slaughtered for no reason. What do we get? Protracted ground operations in Northern Mexico and an elevated cancer rate? The Europeans can go suck a d**k too.
Dude, like I like much earlier in this thread, I'm one of over 40,000 Canadian children who lost both parents in the war and witnessed many horrible acts committed by Ivan before I turned five. I never held a grudge against the Europeans for a moment and grew to appreciate them for helping us when we needed it when it counted the most. Yes, sometimes I'm bitter because I sometimes wonder what my life would be like if I had a normal childhood but I'm more grateful for the sacrifices countless men and women who made incredible sacrifices for my freedom.

TheMann

Matt Wiser said: ↑
There were quite a few West Europeans here on exchange duty, and when their home governments recalled them (being Soviet stooges or just plain frightened into neutrality), they refused-to a man. Some military and intelligence services maintained intelligence-sharing and other activities, quietly and without fuss. Others (like the Turks, Israelis, Egyptians, Japanese, ROKs, Aussies, Kiwis) were more blatant with such things as supplying arms, intelligence, and from the Aussies, even food. (with half the Great Plains under enemy occupation or affected by the ICBM bases in the Dakotas being hit-the Wheat from Australia and Argentina helped out a lot) And South America was staunchly anti-communist, or as one Brazilian General said to an LA Times reporter after some leftists tried seizing the Defense Ministry and the U.S. Embassy in Brasilia, "We don't have a Scorched Earth policy, we have a Scorched Communist policy." (down there, that could be taken literally, and in some places like Chile or Peru, it was.) Of all the Central American countries, Belize and Costa Rica were neutral, Panama had some nasty fights over the canal, and Nicaragua, El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatamala were ComBloc.
Don't forget the countries which joined us. The South Africans were one of the first to join up with us, and they quickly ran short of white guys able to fight between their guys here and their guys in Africa. The ANC got hammered up by the ComBloc guys for not openly fighting, and after the South Africans got done manhandling the Angolans, they sent more to us. I have not forgotten the South African Mirage F1AZ attack planes that flew with us when we were making life hell for the ComBloc punks in the Caribbean. We got lots of victory shouts in isiZulu, isiXhosa and Afrikaans, and some of them were bonafide nuts. Flying low enough over the water that you get spray on the windscreen at Mach 1 speeds is something I would never have dared to do in the Phantom.......

Then they had their guys doing lots of airfield security for us, a job for which their Rooikat armored fighting vehicles excelled. And by the end of the war, all but the dumbest white South Africans had nothing but the highest respect for the black members of the SADF, and universal suffrage came with it.

By the time of the battle of Seattle, the NKs were through hassling the ROK guys (the remnats of the PLA had a good ol' time kicking the shit out of those who dared cross borders), the Koreans began turning up in North America. And let's not forget JS Haruna and JS Amagiri, which had been at Pearl Harbor when the initial invasion came. Haruna and Amagiri then fought as USN units in all but name. Haruna dropped a pair of Soviet destroyers singlehandedly during the battle of Seattle, and shelled the Soviets in Vancouver several times. Amagiri died trying to stop the Russian amphib force at Seattle, but not before she dropped two missile boats and a frigate. (Amagiri's CO was awarded the Order of the Chrysantheum, Japan's highest honor, for his ship's attempts.) Remember that a Japanese flag flies at the memorial to the amphib attack, there is a reason for that.....

The Australian and New Zealand navies did their best too. When the crap hit the fan, the Australian carrier, HMAS Melbourne, was in transit to China for scrapping. The tugs turned around and delivered her right back to Australia, where the Aussies put her back in service. Bro told me about at least once where his carrier went out without ASW airplanes, which they thought was nuts - unit they saw Melbourne was part of the formation. The Aussies got the Trackers souped up (the Israelis did that, apparently) and eventually bought Vikings to replace them, and Melbourne was a good tool for ASW. Melbourne survived the war, and is a museum today. The Australians never signed on actively until late in the game, but they did make sure that we had food on the table, and that means much to an army.

And let's not forget the first Fleet Week after the war, in San Francisco in July '90. I was on R&R at the time and paid a visit. I don't think San Francisco Bay had any more room left in it, something like 30 countries involved in the ceremonial entry. I have a poster on my wall my brother sent of a shot taken by a helicopter of the fleet before it entered San Francisco Harbor.

The middle row was made up of, from left to right:
HMS Invincible
ARA Veitincinco de Mayo
HMS Hermes
USS Nimitz
USS Enterprise
USS New Jersey
HMAS Melbourne
USS Salem

The front row of the formation was, (L-R):
HMCS Iroquois
CAV Almirante Latorre
HMS Norfolk
USS Moosbrugger
HMAS Hobart
HMCS Terra Nova
SAS President Pretorius
JS Haruna
USS St. Paul
NAeL Niteroi

The back row was:
USS Buchanan
HMAS Torrens
USS Arleigh Burke
HMCS Yukon
USS Dahlgren
USS Callaghan
JS Yasuyuki

Wouldn't that have been quite a fleet to have? Two nuclear-powered aircraft carriers (Nimitz, Enterprise), two small fixed-wing carriers (Melbourne, Veintincinco de Mayo), two anti-sub carriers (Invincible, Hermes), a battleship (New Jersey), two heavy cruisers (Salem and St. Paul), a light cruiser (Almirante Latorre) and a pile of destroyers and frigates, from eight countries.

I love that poster, because it shows what was out there, and it wasn't all us......

Wolfman

I have a copy of that poster, and you're right, San Francisco Harbor was crowded. I was part of the flyover in an A-6E TRAM Intruder.

Matt Wiser

SF Bay was crowded: I was home on leave, before going to UCLA and teaching AFROTC, and caught some of it on TV. Couldn't get to the Bay Area myself, but it was on just about every TV station in California. Too bad the AF didn't send me to the party...we would've given the crowd a nice F-4 demo. The shots from the news choppers did make it look like you were flying right over the fleet, and it was very impressive. Looked like you could walk from the Embarcadero to Marin with all those ships.....

Wolfman

Yeah, it was fun, compared to what my pilot and I had been doing prior to getting told we were going to be in the flyover. I had my Nikon 35mm out the whole time, taking pictures.

Matt Wiser

I'll bet. Always nice to fly at a show. I did three that summer (Seymour-Johnson, Victory Day at Scott, and Ellington Field/NASA Houston), and they were jam-packed, all of 'em.

Wolfman

Yeah, flying at shows is just fun.

JN1

AdirondackSeperatist said: ↑
The Europeans can go suck a d**k too.
Listen sunshine friends of mine went through hell fighting as part of the British Army in Canada; my mate who dropped with 15 Para into Vancouver IAP was never the same again. I know men who lost limbs, eyes and their minds in Canada fighting the Soviets. I also lost two very close friends from my days with the University OTU.

As a nation Britain also went through hell, our civilian casualties were, proportionally, as high as America and Canada. We also sent soldiers, planes and warships to assist our brothers on the other side of the Atlantic at a time when we were under daily attack and under threat of invasion.
I did not get shot at by Spetsnaz, nearly blown up by several IEDs and get nearly killed by riotous mobs so that idiots like you can belittle our efforts.

OOC: Obviously the above is IC and is not meant to offend the poster.

trekchu

JN1 said: ↑
Listen sunshine friends of mine went through hell fighting as part of the British Army in Canada; my mate who dropped with 15 Para into Vancouver IAP was never the same again. I know men who lost limbs, eyes and their minds in Canada fighting the Soviets. I also lost two very close friends from my days with the University OTU.

As a nation Britain also went through hell, our civilian casualties were, proportionally, as high as America and Canada. We also sent soldiers, planes and warships to assist our brothers on the other side of the Atlantic at a time when we were under daily attack and under threat of invasion.
I did not get shot at by Spetsnaz, nearly blown up by several IEDs and get nearly killed by riotous mobs so that idiots like you can belittle our efforts.

OOC: Obviously the above is IC and is not meant to offend the poster.
Never mind that by 1989 everyone and their Grandmother were running rampant over the Warsaw Pact in Eastern Europe. If you had bothered to look past the point of your nose you would know that the Europeans fought like bastards against the masses of what forces Ivan and his friends had left there. The Germans were among the first to boot out their Soviet-friendly Governments, and you can't tell me that the Euros overrunning the home countries did nothing to make the Poles et all disintegrate like they did in 88 and 89.

OOC: Equally IC of course.

Matt Wiser

Hey JN1, did you ever find out anything from your Hong Kong friends about either the Buff crash sites near Canton, or the Baron 55 crew when they made their way out of the chaos that was/is China? The book on Baron 55 said that when they got to the border, one British Marine said that they were the scruffiest bunch that he'd ever seen: pretty filthy, all of 'em packing AKs, and just plain glad to get someplace where no one was either shooting at them, or trying to get the female copilot to uh, "entertain" a warlord, or get the two pilots to fly whatever MiGs the warlord had. It sure was an adventure, and it makes my five month E&E look like a walk in the park!

Nikephoros

Matt Wiser said: ↑
It sure was an adventure, and it makes my five month E&E look like a walk in the park!
Five months:eek: Oh god.

My unit's trek through the Iranian front was only three months long.

Wolfman

Matt Wiser said: ↑
Hey JN1, did you ever find out anything from your Hong Kong friends about either the Buff crash sites near Canton, or the Baron 55 crew when they made their way out of the chaos that was/is China? The book on Baron 55 said that when they got to the border, one British Marine said that they were the scruffiest bunch that he'd ever seen: pretty filthy, all of 'em packing AKs, and just plain glad to get someplace where no one was either shooting at them, or trying to get the female copilot to uh, "entertain" a warlord, or get the two pilots to fly whatever MiGs the warlord had. It sure was an adventure, and it makes my five month E&E look like a walk in the park!
Five months? Jesus Christ...:eek:

Matt Wiser

Five months in the mountains in Southern Colorado, with the resistance (Jan-May 86), no thanks to the SA-6/57-mm combination. And Ivan had found out about us after we left a farm family-and some KGB/Auxiliary types found the parents and brother and killed them all. (the daughter was our guide and only found out later-she's now the county sheriff).

Wolfman

I seem to recall hearing something about it, the SAM/AAA combo, that is, and that avoiding it was usually a good idea, unless you were doing Iron Hand work, of course, then you went in and bombed the crap out of them.

JN1

Matt,
A team from the RAF Historic Branch is currently working on excavating all of the BUFF crashes that are not in 'Indian Territory' so to speak. As a mark of how seriously we take that task if necessary we will expand our area of control if a crash site is not too distant from HK and Canton, we have also let it be known that we will take any local interference with the sites very seriously indeed. The local warlords know that means a bombing raid from the RAF followed by a visit from the Gurkhas.

Btw Belize might have been officially neutral but it still allowed the RAF, British Army and the RN to operate from its territory. Many of us reckon that the quartet of Harrier GR.3s and the infantry battalion based in Belize kept the Guats honest.

TheMann,
Can't have been HMS Invincible and HMS Hermes that were at the Fleet Week. Vinnie lies at the bottom of the North Sea, having been lost in March 1987 during the Battle of the Baltic Exits. Herpes (as she was called in the Andrew) was lost to a combination of missiles from 'Backfire' bombers and fish from a Soviet SSN while on ASW duty in the GIUK Gap.
It must have been either Lusty (HMS Illustrious), or the Ark (HMS Ark Royal) and maybe one of the surviving Furious class (HMSs Furious and Implacable).

One carrier I do remember seeing regularly for several years was HMS Bulwark (the Rusty B). After sustaining severe damage during the Battle of the Baltic Exits she made it back to Rosyth but was declared a CTL. Right up to 1992 she was moored to a buoy downriver of the Forth Bridge, like HMCS Nabob was in WW2. It was quite a sad site really, yet it was equally sad the day she was towed to Cairnryan for scrapping.

Wolfman

Seeing her go like that must've been sad.

JN1

There weren't many dry eyes on either side of the Forth that day. However she took four AS-4 and two AS-17 hits, so it was a real miracle that she survived to make it home. With all that damage there was no way she could have been repaired either to return to service, or as a museum ship, as some people suggested at the time.

Wolfman

Perhaps they could've towed her out and turned her into an artificial reef?

[lordroel]

From page 96

JN1

Not sure there are many places around the UK where a ship that size could be sunk. There were proposals to use her in a sinkex, but the value of her steel won out over all other options.

Wolfman

That's a bummer.

BigWillyG

All this talk of foreign support made me think of some of the foreign small craft that helped us at convoy busting sometimes. We had several La Combattante class boats from several countries most of the time. There was also the Danish Willemoes, the Finnish Rauma and the Swedish Norrkoping that helped us jump a troop convoy off Charleston. How those small craft made it to the US I don't know but they did. The Finns and the Swedes were definately taking a risk sending any help to us considering how close they were to the Sovs.

Matt Wiser

Wolfman, we just got unlucky: the SA-6 went off near the aircraft, and sprayed shrapnel into the port wing, left engine, and part of the tail-which took out the Radar Warning Receivers. So I finally get control, and plan to puch out once we clear the mountains, when we're sprayed by 57-mm. Took a hit to the starboard engine, it quit, and it was time to get out. A while back I posted a story where the crash site was found and now the Walesnberg County Museum has some pieces of the wreck, while the Wings Over the Rockies Museum in Denver and the AF Academy are now in Federal Court, fighting over the tail assembly: the former wants it, the latter also wants it (my then-backseater was an Academy grad) and so...Five months with the Resistance, running, hiding, fighting, and just plain surviving on whatever you could gather or shoot-or loot from Ivan. SERE came in pretty handy for that. Still, not real fun at all. Lost 15 pounds and had to take medicine for worms and such for a few weeks after getting over the Moutains once the snow melted in May. We could've been helo'd out, but the CH-47s (the preferred lifter in the Rockies) were all busy with the Denver airlift. So we had to do it the old-fashioned way: rode horseback and walked. When I came back to the squadron is when I picked up Lisa as my new backseater-my old one went to be an instructor at the RTU at Kingsley Field, Oregon (Klamath Falls).

AdirondackSeperatist

JN1 said: ↑
Listen sunshine friends of mine went through hell fighting as part of the British Army in Canada; my mate who dropped with 15 Para into Vancouver IAP was never the same again. I know men who lost limbs, eyes and their minds in Canada fighting the Soviets. I also lost two very close friends from my days with the University OTU.

As a nation Britain also went through hell, our civilian casualties were, proportionally, as high as America and Canada. We also sent soldiers, planes and warships to assist our brothers on the other side of the Atlantic at a time when we were under daily attack and under threat of invasion.
I did not get shot at by Spetsnaz, nearly blown up by several IEDs and get nearly killed by riotous mobs so that idiots like you can belittle our efforts.

OOC: Obviously the above is IC and is not meant to offend the poster.
Perhaps you missed my follow-up post in which I explained my position on the Europeans AND British during the invaision. If this is true, I've reposted it here for your review:

I'm not anti-european, I dont hate the european people or blame them, but the european governments' decisions for themselves had grave reprocussions on us. Was it not primarily Europe that forced the dissolution of NATO by deserting it? When NATO went in mid '85 it basically gave the Soviets and their lacky states the political will to plan and impliment their operation. So did the Europeans mean harm? No. Did they contribute to its cause? Yes.

Regardless, I do agree with the assertion that the war in the end wasn't a bad result for us. Indeed how many of us in the US or Canada would ever truley appreciate what we have if we never had to give our lives to defend and preserve it? I shutter to think the apathy and nhilsm that could have developed among us without a kick in the ass. For that, I give Ivan and Jose a hearty "thanks"...

P.S I don't include the British Isles when I refer to Europe despite the technical definition.

The Brits, were afterall, with us there the entire time.


(Ps I am new to this board, but not to Althist, let me tell you this thread inspired me to watch this movie again... one of the best of all times.)

Matt Wiser

Hey JN1, glad to see that those Buff crash sites will be checked out. AF SOC has recovery teams that can come in if necessary, and they've got some muscle of their own. The Navy will have to take care of the Buff off the coast, though, and that will take some work.

One thing that really surprised me about the E&E, though I didn't find out until much, much later (at last year's Victory Day air show, to be precise), was that as we went over the Rockies to friendly territory (there were 12 of us downed aircrew, plus a couple of Resistance guides) there was a Spetsnatz team on a LRRP mission, and they tracked us, and got close enough to use a telephoto lens to take some decent pictures. Colonel Bella told me at Scott AFB at the show that he knew all about me and my back-seater, and the pics were good enough to make a decent ID. That report was one of the last things to cross his desk before he defected. That was a real jaw-dropper...I called Sheriff Lori Sheppard (one of our guides) and told her that, and she was ballistic. She thought there was an undiscovered traitor in the group, but she calmed down when I told her the Spetsnatz team had been in the mountains for several days, scouting out the passes and seeing who was going across and what they were up to. Still, we had a fire-fight the next to last day in the mountains-seems some Cuban SOF stumbled onto our campsite, and they had to be driven off, but the other guide...he bit the big one. In '87 a GRU report on USAF aces was captured at Tinker AFB, and it had me on it, along with Mann and quite a few others.

JN1

Matt,
Don't worry, we've got plenty of muscle of our own in HK-Canton. If necessary the archaeological teams will take armour from the resident RAC Squadron and have Apaches and Typhoons flying shotgun.
The local hotheads have learned recently, once again, not to p*ss us off. We've very much taken the attitude of 'you fire one mortar round at us and we'll give you a full scale artillery fire mission in return. The RA in HK have deployed COBRA and the new MAMBA locating radars in the area, so that any mortars, or rockets fired into our territory will get 105mm, or 155mm HE rounds in return.

Matt Wiser

That's good to hear, but when the DOD search teams come from the POW-MIA Office, AFSOC comes along, just to be on the safe side. Did you ever ask your HK friends if they ran into the Baron 55 crew after they got to HK? They had the longest E&E of any crew forced down in what was China. Two-plus years in bandit/warlord/PLA territory... Watch for the movie, it's been signed for an HBO/BBC coproduction. The book's dated, so I don't know what the crew's up to recently, other than the copilot. She now runs the 416th BW at Griffiss AFB (Rome, NY). She was deputy Wing CO for the 93rd at Castle, but got her own wing before this Mexico business kicked off.

Speaking of which, the PLDP seems to be in control of the Central and North-Central parts of the country. Only the south and Yucatan is out of their control, and that's mainly due to all the rebel groups-most of whom have issued statements denouncing the PLDP as "Light Marxists." The Zapatistas, of course, hate the PLDP, the MexGov, the other rebels, and us. No surprise there. The MexGov still has control over parts of Mexico City and all of the Pacific Coast, or at least that's what my Intel officer says. Nothing secret about that: it's what the talking heads on CNN have been saying for a couple days now. Neither the 419th or the 366th has dropped a bomb or fired a missile in several days. The 352nd has had to bomb a few idiots who lit their radars onto 352nd Strike Eagles and Vipers, but we haven't had to-yet. Now, if the PLDP will listen to us, maybe we can go home and get back into peacetime routine.

JN1

From what my mates have said it's a case of a friend of a friend ran into them. I do know that they were royally entertained in the various messes of the RAF, army and Royal Navy.
A few of their AKs have ended up as ornaments on mess walls. Has the female crewmember ever spoken about the Wessex pilot from 28 (AC) Squadron she allegedly hooked up with for one night after the festivities in the RAF Officer's mess?

Wolfman

Matt Wiser said: ↑
Wolfman, we just got unlucky: the SA-6 went off near the aircraft, and sprayed shrapnel into the port wing, left engine, and part of the tail-which took out the Radar Warning Receivers. So I finally get control, and plan to puch out once we clear the mountains, when we're sprayed by 57-mm. Took a hit to the starboard engine, it quit, and it was time to get out. A while back I posted a story where the crash site was found and now the Walesnberg County Museum has some pieces of the wreck, while the Wings Over the Rockies Museum in Denver and the AF Academy are now in Federal Court, fighting over the tail assembly: the former wants it, the latter also wants it (my then-backseater was an Academy grad) and so...Five months with the Resistance, running, hiding, fighting, and just plain surviving on whatever you could gather or shoot-or loot from Ivan. SERE came in pretty handy for that. Still, not real fun at all. Lost 15 pounds and had to take medicine for worms and such for a few weeks after getting over the Moutains once the snow melted in May. We could've been helo'd out, but the CH-47s (the preferred lifter in the Rockies) were all busy with the Denver airlift. So we had to do it the old-fashioned way: rode horseback and walked. When I came back to the squadron is when I picked up Lisa as my new backseater-my old one went to be an instructor at the RTU at Kingsley Field, Oregon (Klamath Falls).
My pilot and I had our fair share of close encounters with SA-6/57mm set-ups during the war. The Reds got quite fiendish in how they would hide them, or not, if they were using one set-up as bait to draw in Iron Hand assets while a second set-up blew them to Hell. Well, we learned quickly enough, and the Resistance got very good at blowing them up once they found out about how these sites were giving their flying friends grief.

Dialga

Let me tell you something: Hiding out in the Everglades for several years was no picnic. Also, my brother wasn't mentally fit for the military, so we were out of luck there.

Matt Wiser

There was an amphibious raid the first week of the war, targeted on Miami-Dade County, and a lot of folks ran for the swamp. I had a college friend in 24th ID sitting at Orlando, waiting for the Cubans to come north, and nothing happened. So they were sent south, and ran into refugees fleeing South Florida, all convinced the Cubans were chasing after them. What'd the Cubans do, apart from scaring the hell out of most of Florida? They nearly overran Homestead AFB and the nearby nuclear power plant, wrecked the Port of Miami, Miami IAP, and the Opa-Locka Coast Guard Air Station. When 24th ID (and the Florida NG's 53rd IB) arrived, they found those facilities wrecked, several freighters and a cruise liner sunk to block the harbor, and the bridges to Miami Beach blown, along with the usual looting, pillage, rape, and so forth. My friend was a mech platoon leader at the time, and he says it took a week to restore order down there.

The book only says that the copilot was "well entertained" by some RAF guys. Though Colonel Cindy Moreau (CO, 93rd BW at Castle AFB) told me when 512 was dedicated at Castle Air Museum, that the copilot spent a lot of time in bed-and she wasn't sleeping. Given the pressure at times she was under to "entertain" various warlords (and she had to at least twice), some enjoyable time in the sack certainly was well overdue. And Colonel Moreau doesn't blame the copilot at all. She said that if that was her, she'd do the same thing if necessary.

Well, the PLDP looks like it's in control of Mexico City. The MexGov has fled for parts unknown, though if they're planning on getting out, they'd better have alternative plans, the sea route is blocked courtesy of the USN, the air route is also blocked because of the no-fly zone that's being enforced, and by land...the roads to Guatamala are in rebel territory. Nothing yet on when the PLDP is ready to listen to us on terms, but they'll talk, once they finish shooting the "enemies of the state" in Mexico City.....

Wolfman

Here's hoping they're inclined to be reasonable... if they're not so inclined... well, I have my squadron ready to go down and "convince" them to be reasonable.

Matt Wiser

So are we in 419: we haven't hit any infrastructure targets like power plants and the like, but that can change if the new government is less than reasonable. If they prove obstinate, well, they can see how they like it in the dark....

TheMann

I'm not sure folks, but I think one of my F-22 drivers may have sent the Mexican government to see God. One of my guys shot down a Aeromexico IL-96 that attempted to run out of Mexico City's airport. He and three wingmen called him over the guard channel asking his intentions and he didn't respond, but rather tried to dive and run in the big beast. The pilots stayed with him for a few while we checked ICAO for any Mexico City passenger flights. The IL-96 then tried to ram two of the F-22 guys, who brought him down with Sdewinders. Hopefully we'll know soon......

Matt Wiser

If we hear the PLDP saying that a planeload of "Enemies of the State" crashed, then we'll know who it was. Maybe your guy nailed a leftie bug-out instead (to be hoped for)....

Mann, strange war, isn't it? A lot different from the last time, wouldn't you say? For us, flying mostly CAP or armed recon, and hitting the bar at the La Paz Sheraton is a far cry from last time. (We haven't moved from the tent city at LeMay, but we've practically adopted the bar and pool at the Sheraton). God, after PRAIRIE FIRE got going, moving every two weeks it seemed, tent cities, MREs until the kitchen got set up, sometimes sleeping under your plane because you got there before the engineers did to build the tent city, and the occasional attempt by ComBloc SOF to sneak onto the field, and the cry "Sappers in the Wire!" (an old Vietnam saying), and grabbing the CAR-15 or MP-5 you carried, just in case.

Oh, Mann, the Scott brothers do want a one-star to show up at the premiere of Wings of the Phantom, I did give them your name, so don't be surprised if you get an invite. And another movie due to start shooting is Down in China: The story of Baron 55. With Jennifer Garner, Dwayne Johnson (the Rock) in the role of copilot and pilot. They start shooting in the Philippines in a month or so. I've also been promised director's cut DVDs of Wings of the Phantom to all the aircrews who flew during the filming, so that'll be a good thing to give to the guys.

DD951

Wolfman said: ↑
My pilot and I had our fair share of close encounters with SA-6/57mm set-ups during the war. The Reds got quite fiendish in how they would hide them, or not, if they were using one set-up as bait to draw in Iron Hand assets while a second set-up blew them to Hell. Well, we learned quickly enough, and the Resistance got very good at blowing them up once they found out about how these sites were giving their flying friends grief.
During the fighting in Vancouver, AD sites, especially SA-6/57mm AAA combos generally had the second highest priority as NGFS targets, right after fire support missions being called in by those on the ground. Guess I now know why that particular set-up had such a high priority assigned.

Matt Wiser said: ↑
If we hear the PLDP saying that a planeload of "Enemies of the State" crashed, then we'll know who it was. Maybe your guy nailed a leftie bug-out instead (to be hoped for)....
Either way, we can only hope, even if it would have been nice to get some sort of accounting for their crimes in court....

thepenguin

Matt Wiser said: ↑
If we hear the PLDP saying that a planeload of "Enemies of the State" crashed, then we'll know who it was. Maybe your guy nailed a leftie bug-out instead (to be hoped for)....

Mann, strange war, isn't it? A lot different from the last time, wouldn't you say? For us, flying mostly CAP or armed recon, and hitting the bar at the La Paz Sheraton is a far cry from last time. (We haven't moved from the tent city at LeMay, but we've practically adopted the bar and pool at the Sheraton). God, after PRAIRIE FIRE got going, moving every two weeks it seemed, tent cities, MREs until the kitchen got set up, sometimes sleeping under your plane because you got there before the engineers did to build the tent city, and the occasional attempt by ComBloc SOF to sneak onto the field, and the cry "Sappers in the Wire!" (an old Vietnam saying), and grabbing the CAR-15 or MP-5 you carried, just in case.

Oh, Mann, the Scott brothers do want a one-star to show up at the premiere of Wings of the Phantom, I did give them your name, so don't be surprised if you get an invite. And another movie due to start shooting is Down in China: The story of Baron 55. With Jennifer Garner, Dwayne Johnson (the Rock) in the role of copilot and pilot. They start shooting in the Philippines in a month or so. I've also been promised director's cut DVDs of Wings of the Phantom to all the aircrews who flew during the filming, so that'll be a good thing to give to the guys.
I remember that. We had it good at McConnell, because they had to fix the runways, and by the time they did that, the South Africans were there. But after that and base-hopping...yeah I had a down sleeping bag behind my seat, a .30-30 paratroop carbine in the sleeping bag, and I wore a Colt M1911, and a Smith and Wesson .45 ACP revolver with three mags for the 1911 and four speedloaders for the Smith. I still have those guns and I go hunting with the carbine. I've been doing armed recon since the PLDP took Mexico City, and I have to admit, it's kind of depressing when you come back with everything still hanging on your jet. Hopefully our targeting guys can find some dump points where we can just drop and see things go "boom." Otherwise, I'll have to see if we can use Luke's range or China Lake.

[lordroel]

From page 97

Matt Wiser

It wasn't just the SA-6/57-mm combo which gave us trouble; if supporting troops in contact, the SA-6 or SA-8 and the ZSU-23-4 Shilka was just as nasty. We packed Mavericks to deal with Shilkas, but needed Weasels and their HARMs, Standard ARM, or Shrikes, to knock out the SAM tracks. Rule #1 was to get the FAC or Army FO to get some artillery fire down on those guns and missile launchers (SA-9s and SA-13s as well) if possible. Anything to give us a better run on the target. Of course, the older SA-2s and SA-3s were still dangerous....lost our first CO to an SA-3 in Eastern New Mexico the first month of the war.

DD951

Matt Wiser said: ↑
It wasn't just the SA-6/57-mm combo which gave us trouble; if supporting troops in contact, the SA-6 or SA-8 and the ZSU-23-4 Shilka was just as nasty. We packed Mavericks to deal with Shilkas, but needed Weasels and their HARMs, Standard ARM, or Shrikes, to knock out the SAM tracks. Rule #1 was to get the FAC or Army FO to get some artillery fire down on those guns and missile launchers (SA-9s and SA-13s as well) if possible. Anything to give us a better run on the target. Of course, the older SA-2s and SA-3s were still dangerous....lost our first CO to an SA-3 in Eastern New Mexico the first month of the war.
The SA-6/57 mm combo was the air-defense setup highest on the target list up in my corner of the war which would lead a non-aviator type to naturally assume those were the biggest threat, although I would presume that whomever drew up those lists should have been aware of the other AD systems that were just as dangerous, so I couldn't say why none of those other things were ranked up with the SA-6/57 mm, but were several places down (after things with anti-ship capability and command/communications posts.) Maybe those other setups weren't all that common around Vancouver for some reason, the versions up there were older, less-capable subvariants, or whoever drew up that list wasn't really thinking about coordinating NGFS & artillery with CAS, but that's not really something I had reason to look into at the time. Then again, a lot of the fire support calls just referred to generic 'AFVs' and 'artillery', without bothering to distinguish between a tank, APC, artillery & AA guns (towed or SP), and missile launchers (whether fixed, SP, surface-to-surface or SAM).

TheMann

I lost my first Hornet to a SA-6/57mm combo, so I can sympathize with those who hate those blasted things - that time, the SA-6 missed and detonated in the wake of my fighter, but the 57mm spray blew most of the left wing off of it and I was lucky enough to eject while the canopy was facing upwards.

I always watched out for SA-11s, too. Those fuckers were just as bad as the SA-6/ZSU-57-2 combo, and faster to acquire a target, too.

Matt Wiser

SA-11s were downright dangerous, with a backup EO tracker if the radar was jammed (which we found out the hard way). If there was one good thing that came out of ADVENT CROWN (the botched counteroffensive in early '86), the Army managed to grab a couple SA-11 launchers somewhere and spirit them off before Ivan's push. At least we got some decent info on them, but they were still dangerous to the end.

sloreck

Being with the Marines for the war (whether on sea or land), AAA was usually not a concern. However once in a while our LAVs or infantry would run into a ZSU-23 that was either deliberately forward to go after helos & CAS or just was where it was not supposed to be. TOWs and even LAWs could take them out easily, but until you did that they could send a lot of lead your way & if it was an infantry patrol got caught in the open.... Sadly a grunt hit by a round from one of those was almost always a goner, and they would COMPLETELY remove an arm or leg & we'd see them in the surgical unit only if the corpsman managed to get a tourniquet onn the stump right away.

Only timre I really gave much thought to missiles was on the Tarawa. Some of those Sov surface to surface & air to surface missiles were nasty, and the Tarawa was a big target - and we were just passengers & no place to hide. Just sweat it out & hope the escorts or the Tarawas R2D2's would get the incoming viper.

Wolfman

Matt Wiser said: ↑
It wasn't just the SA-6/57-mm combo which gave us trouble; if supporting troops in contact, the SA-6 or SA-8 and the ZSU-23-4 Shilka was just as nasty. We packed Mavericks to deal with Shilkas, but needed Weasels and their HARMs, Standard ARM, or Shrikes, to knock out the SAM tracks. Rule #1 was to get the FAC or Army FO to get some artillery fire down on those guns and missile launchers (SA-9s and SA-13s as well) if possible. Anything to give us a better run on the target. Of course, the older SA-2s and SA-3s were still dangerous....lost our first CO to an SA-3 in Eastern New Mexico the first month of the war.
DD951 said: ↑
The SA-6/57 mm combo was the air-defense setup highest on the target list up in my corner of the war which would lead a non-aviator type to naturally assume those were the biggest threat, although I would presume that whomever drew up those lists should have been aware of the other AD systems that were just as dangerous, so I couldn't say why none of those other things were ranked up with the SA-6/57 mm, but were several places down (after things with anti-ship capability and command/communications posts.) Maybe those other setups weren't all that common around Vancouver for some reason, the versions up there were older, less-capable subvariants, or whoever drew up that list wasn't really thinking about coordinating NGFS & artillery with CAS, but that's not really something I had reason to look into at the time. Then again, a lot of the fire support calls just referred to generic 'AFVs' and 'artillery', without bothering to distinguish between a tank, APC, artillery & AA guns (towed or SP), and missile launchers (whether fixed, SP, surface-to-surface or SAM).
TheMann said: ↑
I lost my first Hornet to a SA-6/57mm combo, so I can sympathize with those who hate those blasted things - that time, the SA-6 missed and detonated in the wake of my fighter, but the 57mm spray blew most of the left wing off of it and I was lucky enough to eject while the canopy was facing upwards.

I always watched out for SA-11s, too. Those fuckers were just as bad as the SA-6/ZSU-57-2 combo, and faster to acquire a target, too.
Matt Wiser said: ↑
SA-11s were downright dangerous, with a backup EO tracker if the radar was jammed (which we found out the hard way). If there was one good thing that came out of ADVENT CROWN (the botched counteroffensive in early '86), the Army managed to grab a couple SA-11 launchers somewhere and spirit them off before Ivan's push. At least we got some decent info on them, but they were still dangerous to the end.
Man, and here I thought that the SA-6/57mm combos were bad enough, guess I got lucky.

trekchu

As a ground pounder the mos difficult non-tank opposition for me were dozens upon dozens upon dozens of Ivans with RPGs. One of the vets I spoke to a few years ago insists that one day, somewhere near Denver in a small village the impacts of RPGs on his tank were like rainfall. If it is true then it must have been pretty old ones though.
Star Wars - The Skywalker Heresy (Updated 08/26/2016)

Wolfman

In that case they must've been using RPG-7's.

trekchu

Wolfman said: ↑
In that case they must've been using RPG-7's.
Must have been, for me it was never that bad though.
Star Wars - The Skywalker Heresy (Updated 08/26/2016)

Wolfman

Well, I never had that particular pleasure.

TheMann

Wolfman said: ↑
Well, I never had that particular pleasure.
Probably a good thing. RPGs are not fun to deal with, I'm sure.

Wolfman

OOC: Glad to see you again, Mann!

IC: I heard stories from fellow Marines.

Panzerfaust 150

For us,
Our big fears were artillery, then airstrikes...followed by everything else..we got all too acquainted with Combloc artillery...and when they got going...the old pre-war saw about being able to blanket a grid square on a 1:50,000 map are only too damn true. I've seen it.

We really hated the long range stuff...130s, 203s...and the SS-21s the few times they were fired in our direction....SS-21s were nasty because they made no damn noise incoming...so ducking was after the fact...and they rarely had plain vanilla warheads..

A few times, we were on the receiving end of those heavy mortars Ivan has...the 160mm stuff...like the SS-21...only more sustained..and no fun at all!

Wolfman

Wasn't the SS-21 a sub-launched ballistic missile?

Panzerfaust 150

Location:Washington DC...We HAD a football team, now it's a
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OTR-21_Tochka

Nope, FROG replacements...

Wolfman

Thanks. I was in on a couple of missions to kill some of those SCARAB-As during the war.

Nikephoros

Everyone likes Blitzkrieg-style offenses, right? Relatively bloodless for the attackers, hell for the defenders.

Hah!

Just try cleaning up the mess that those offensives leave behind. I spent a lot of time sorting innocents from collaborators. I also had a lot of trouble with stopping reprisals. We heard reports of Soviet collaborators being marched off into death camps in the middle of the desert. So what did we do?

We attacked those prison camps. It was about ten to twenty people each time against camps with probably around 100 guards each. We ended up giving the surviving guards a choice. They could either make the trek towards civilization alone, without arms, or they could remain at the mercies of those they captured. We couldn't take them with us, nor could we let scum like them join the resistance. As for the prisoners, we separated the violent ones from the peaceful ones, took them away from the camp, and chained them all together to the ground. We then called in for a pickup for them. The peaceful ones were kept in the camps, and supplies were often dropped in. This all in advance of ground troops, mostly NG units.

We also conducted behind the lines attacks on Soviet troops caught in the zone.

Matt Wiser

The SS-21 was the successor to the FROG-7 free-flight rocket. The SS-N-21 was Ivan's answer to the Tomahawk SLCM. We went after SS-21 launchers (division-level) pretty often-and those were defended by the SA-6 or SA-8 mixed with either 57-mm (the towed S-60) or ZSU-23-4. Unless you had Weasels or dedicated flak suppressors (if not needed for CAS, the Marine F-4 guys we flew with got to be pretty good at flak suppression), you could count on losing at least one airplane in your flight, maybe more.

As for RPGs, I read Dragon's Roar: the 1st Armored Division in World War III, and the author said that hits to RPGs increased when the ComBloc issued the RPG-18 and RPG-22 to every grunt, besides having just one grunt per squad with an RPG-7 or -16. Not that they did much against M-1s, unless it was a track or engine shot. And the M-60 guys would attach RPG screens-even scrounging chicken wire-on their tanks to set off the RPG before it struck the tank. Soon everyone who could was doing that.

CNN showed a piece with several PLDP people going to the front lines near Monterrey and asking for a formal cease-fire. 2nd AD took them and passed them up the line. They want the no-fly zone lifted so that the PLDP can send reps to the UN to take over the UN seat. Or so the CNN report said.No reaction from Philly-yet.

Matt Wiser

Hey Panzerfaust, I heard from one of the EASTERN EXPRESS vets: Colonel Cindy Moreau, and she was asked to give a talk at the Air War College about the Siberia missions that she flew, first as copilot, then shifting to the left seat as pilot and aircraft commander. You might find her talk very interesting, if she accepts the invite.

statichaos

We shall rise from the ashes, fascist oppressors! I have not yet forgotten my American Young Communist League training! Know that we are out here, biding our time, waiting to strike when the time is right!

[lordroel]

From page 98

thepenguin

Hey Matt, we still doing those regular RIVET JOINT flights?

Matt Wiser

RIVET JOINT? Oh yes, we still are: Cuba before the invasion, Mexico (ditto), Rump USSR (still) and a few other places. But I'm not in SAC, so all I know is what's in the public domain. Even my intel officer has no "need to know."

American Young Communist League? The ALA's Youth Arm.....lots of those folks either are upstanding citizens, or are still in 6X9 cells. It was more of a cult than a organization, IIRC. And run like one, too. At least the adults who ran it have paid, either by doing time, or going to the gallows.

Anything new on the airliner that got splashed? There's a pool going around the various units at LeMay AFB: either MexGov bigwigs trying to get out, lefties trying to escape, or a mix of the two.

statichaos

Matt Wiser said: ↑
American Young Communist League? The ALA's Youth Arm.....lots of those folks either are upstanding citizens, or are still in 6X9 cells. It was more of a cult than a organization, IIRC. And run like one, too. At least the adults who ran it have paid, either by doing time, or going to the gallows.
Using the word "cult" shows that you're either an agent of the imperialist capitalist system, or a feebleminded tool of it. Once they open up the universities and high schools to the viewpoints of Marx, Engles, Che, and Castro again, the youth of this great country will be awakened to the truth once more.

Until then, I pity you.

thepenguin

statichaos said: ↑
Using the word "cult" shows that you're either an agent of the imperialist capitalist system, or a feebleminded tool of it. Once they open up the universities and high schools to the viewpoints of Marx, Engles, Che, and Castro again, the youth of this great country will be awakened to the truth once more.

Until then, I pity you.
I've noticed we're using Prowlers for intel collection in Mexico. Please, please tell me this guy is posting up from Mexico. My buddy's ACR is itching to do something. They're in garrison at Chihuahua.

statichaos

Pah. Catch me if you can, lackey.

Ming777

Sigh....you know they can trace IP addresses and wifi signal now.
Now, my family moved to the Lower Mainland, BC from HK when I was a kid, for economic reasons. Back then, they just finished repairing the more critical infrastructure and began to rebuild the SkyTrain system that was hit by the Ruskies. Life was alright, course Vancouver still bears some scars from the siege. Sigh...none of the historical buildings lasted. Old City Hall, the Fairmont, the Woodsworth. All memories now...
Anyways, I'm studying at UBC under the ROTP. Lifes okay...

DD951

statichaos said: ↑
Pah. Catch me if you can, lackey.
Actually, the NSA and a few other agencies have very good setups to trace IP addresses, wi-fi signals, phone calls, etc., and we've caught more than a few traitors and war criminals that way, so don't be surprised if you're contacted shortly by representatives of your local FBI field office (or someone who plays by a rather harder set of rules if you're in another country.) Have a nice day (because you don't have very many of those kind left....)

DD951

At sea, I'd say that the threats we considered most dangerous, especially on a ship with marginal AAW & ASW capabilities such as mine, were submarines, those big anti-ship missiles (and the platforms that carried them), mines and aircraft (not so much the occasional fighter-bomber, but either large quantities of them or the bombers that could carry the big anti-ship missiles, which is why the gun destroyers were generally paired with a missile ship (generally there were 2 Forrest Sherman DDG conversions and 2 Perrys in theater during the BC campaign).

BigWillyG

DD951 said: ↑
At sea, I'd say that the threats we considered most dangerous, especially on a ship with marginal AAW & ASW capabilities such as mine, were submarines, those big anti-ship missiles (and the platforms that carried them), mines and aircraft (not so much the occasional fighter-bomber, but either large quantities of them or the bombers that could carry the big anti-ship missiles, which is why the gun destroyers were generally paired with a missile ship (generally there were 2 Forrest Sherman DDG conversions and 2 Perrys in theater during the BC campaign).
My ship hated mines and aircraft. Lucky for us missile small craft were too small for subs to waste anything on but anything else was nasty.

Matt Wiser

It seems the postwar cleanup of lefties hasn't gone far enough. Find this idiot and make an example of him. A lot of good men and women died twenty-plus years ago defending this country from the ComBloc and those of his ilk. And the MIA list is still a long one: I've got several squadron mates from 335 still MIA. I know they're dead, but until their remains are returned to their families, they're still unaccounted for. God bless, guys; we still drink to you at the O-Club.

Wolfman

Matt Wiser said: ↑
It seems the postwar cleanup of lefties hasn't gone far enough. Find this idiot and make an example of him. A lot of good men and women died twenty-plus years ago defending this country from the ComBloc and those of his ilk. And the MIA list is still a long one: I've got several squadron mates from 335 still MIA. I know they're dead, but until their remains are returned to their families, they're still unaccounted for. God bless, guys; we still drink to you at the O-Club.
When you find this moron, put a couple of rounds through his head for me, will ya, Matt?

statichaos

Nice try, imperialists. I'm on the move once again, and your jackals didn't manage to find me. By the time they trace this one, I'll be gone again.


Arise ye pris'ners of starvation
Arise ye wretched of the earth
For justice thunders condemnation
A better world's in birth!
No more tradition's chains shall bind us
Arise, ye slaves, no more in thrall;
The earth shall rise on new foundations
We have been naught we shall be all.

'Tis the final conflict
Let each stand in his place
The International Union
Shall be the human race.

We want no condescending saviors
To rule us from their judgement hall
We workers ask not for their favors
Let us consult for all.
To make the theif disgorge his booty
To free the spirit from its cell
We must ourselves decide our duty
We must decide and do it well.

The law oppresses us and tricks us,
The wage slave system drains our blood;
The rich are free from obligation,
The laws the poor delude.
Too long we've languished in subjection,
Equality has other laws;
"No rights", says she "without their duties,
No claims on equals without cause."

Behold them seated in their glory
The kings of mine and rail and soil!
What have you read in all their story,
But how they plundered toil?
Fruits of the workers' toil are buried
In strongholds of the idle few
In working for their restitution
The men will only claim their due.

We toilers from all fields united
Join hand in hand with all who work;
The earth belongs to us, the workers,
No room here for the shirk.
How many on our flesh have fattened!
But if the norsome birds of prey
Shall vanish from the sky some morning
The blessed sunlight then will stay.

thepenguin

I'm thinking he's in Mexico. Any takers?

TheMann

To the Commie Apologist: I hope you are aware that this USAF Brigadier General has reported your IP to the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the USAF Security Police, and you'll be getting a visit from some very unfriendly people in the near future.

I also have many friends lost in that war. My best friend is in a wheelchair after a SAM shot his plane down over Alberta. His brother died on USS Yorktown. All of us know people who died fighting or from the Soviet terror.

Panzerfaust 150

Yo Comrade,
I interrogated people like you...and we had our hands full keeping civies and other EPWs from tearing your throats out. My advice..accept the fact that your system lost. That it's blood-soaked reign of terror is over and let the dead you and your friends made sleep in peace. In my day, you'd have been packed off to Bakersfield, given a short trial, and done a dance on the end of a short rope. Now? Count yourself luckier that DoJ handles this stuff.

I heard about the possibility Col. Moreau was coming to speak..Her take on her crew's trek across China will be interesting, but with the series that was in the Plain Dealer recently, about SAC, I suspect there's going to be a lot of questions from faculty and students about that.

statichaos

You know what I was doing in WWIII? I'll tell you: I was going to high school.

I was what they used to call a red diaper baby. My parents were leftists, university professors, totally harmless. They preached Marx and even had sympathy for the deviant Mao, but never lifted a finger against the bourgeois system that oppressed the workers around them. No, instead they taught their classes and kept their mouths shut, then went to their socialist meetings at night to bemoan the plight of the common man.

When the attempted liberation happened, we weren't one of the states hit. This meant that the jackbooted thugs of the imperialist oppressors of our local FBI and police forces were able to target and round up anyone with sympathy towards the freedom-loving people of the Soviet Union. They died during the struggle for freedom, killed by their fellow inmates in the internment camp brainwashed into believing that they would gain some sort of favor with their jailers.

Every blow that the Soviets struck against you was not enough. Your system of oppression and racism will be repaid a hundredfold, nay, a thousandfold.

Nikephoros

Wolfman said: ↑
When you find this moron, put a couple of rounds through his head for me, will ya, Matt?
OOC: Let's draw the line here. Let's not take this too far.

Misses the Cold War

statichaos said: ↑
You know what I was doing in WWIII? I'll tell you: I was going to high school.

I was what they used to call a red diaper baby. My parents were leftists, university professors, totally harmless. They preached Marx and even had sympathy for the deviant Mao, but never lifted a finger against the bourgeois system that oppressed the workers around them. No, instead they taught their classes and kept their mouths shut, then went to their socialist meetings at night to bemoan the plight of the common man.
Odd, I knew quite a few like your folks who were in Texas and in the Southwest...the Soviets didn't give them much of a shrift either. Don't believe me? I saw the mass graves...I did post-war war crimes stuff. I saw ugly kid that I pray to god you never, ever have to see in your lifetime. Read up on Sergei Khvostov..I met him...and everytime I think of him...I have to take a damn shower.

When the attempted liberation happened, we weren't one of the states hit. This meant that the jackbooted thugs of the imperialist oppressors of our local FBI and police forces were able to target and round up anyone with sympathy towards the freedom-loving people of the Soviet Union. They died during the struggle for freedom, killed by their fellow inmates in the internment camp brainwashed into believing that they would gain some sort of favor with their jailers.
Ok, that's sad...then again...I know a professor who's was a member of the Spartacist Youth League and some other fairly left wing causes who lived in the Austin burbs...she lost her mother because the Soviets shot her for being a "federal official" (She worked for the post office as a letter carrier). Bliss fought for three years as a partisan. And we stay in touch...She's a sociology prof at UT-Austin. Another person I know is a Prof who used to teach at CUNY-Brooklyn...after the Soviets glassed Manhattan (and my grandfather, along with most of my wife's family...) he got a job at UVA...he was a harmless guy like your parents..but he was a neat guy who'd taught history for thirty years and used to invite us vets over to ask us what it was like. He'd wanted to fight..they'd nuked his home..but they didn't take him. His son went...and died in Houston with the Marines. He was proud of his kid...but he still believed in Marx..just not the "Soviet perversion" of it. A bunch of us protected him when some damn Rednecks tried to burn down his house.

Every blow that the Soviets struck against you was not enough. Your system of oppression and racism will be repaid a hundredfold, nay, a thousandfold.
No you don't kid..you don't mean it...and if you do..then your soul's pretty damn empty if you ask me. Take it from someone who's seen a hell of a lot..People are people and the great many the world over simply want to get on with the business of living. Shame some scared old men in the Politburo didn't feel that way.

Nikephoros

If anything, the war only served to hurt the cause of Marxism. Who wants to be referred to as a Marxist these days?

statichaos

Nikephoros said: ↑
If anything, the war only served to hurt the cause of Marxism. Who wants to be referred to as a Marxist these days?
Anyone who sees the dehumanizing process of capitalism in all of its glory.

[lordroel]

From page 99

Nikephoros

statichaos said: ↑
Anyone who sees the dehumanizing process of capitalism in all of its glory.
Yeah...:rolleyes:

Need I list the countless "English Department Marxists" that have come out and apologized for their support of Marxism?

We don't really need to be trolled here. DemocraticUnderground (yeah right) seems more your style.

Actually, I think you're too wacko for them:eek:

statichaos

Nikephoros said: ↑
Yeah...:rolleyes:

Need I list the countless "English Department Marxists" that have come out and apologized for their support of Marxism?

We don't really need to be trolled here. DemocraticUnderground (yeah right) seems more your style.

Actually, I think you're too wacko for them:eek:
DemocraticUnderground is made up of bourgeois liberals and play-Marxists. The "English Department Marxists" you speak of have been forced to renounce their beliefs or have their lives destroyed by the brutal capitalistic machine. I would like to think that I would stay the course were I in their position, but I can't really blame them for doing what they thought was best at the time.

Nikephoros

statichaos said: ↑
DemocraticUnderground is made up of bourgeois liberals and play-Marxists. The "English Department Marxists" you speak of have been forced to renounce their beliefs or have their lives destroyed by the brutal capitalistic machine. I would like to think that I would stay the course were I in their position, but I can't really blame them for doing what they thought was best at the time.
Yeah, whatever. I think I just found another Communist for my ignore list.

Have a nice day.

OOC: You're not actually on my ignore list.

statichaos

Nikephoros said: ↑
Yeah, whatever. I think I just found another Communist for my ignore list.

Have a nice day.

OOC: You're not actually on my ignore list.

OOC: I certainly hope not! And this is FUN, since I really was socialistic in 1984, and can see myself turning into just this sort of annoying S.O.B. in my later years. Don't think that I would have turned traitor, though.

DD951

TheMann said: ↑
To the Commie Apologist: I hope you are aware that this USAF Brigadier General has reported your IP to the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the USAF Security Police, and you'll be getting a visit from some very unfriendly people in the near future.
As has this senior Assistant US Attorney, to the Bureau, US Marshall Service, & the Secret Service, and a few contacts of my own within the intelligence community.

I also have many friends lost in that war. My best friend is in a wheelchair after a SAM shot his plane down over Alberta. His brother died on USS Yorktown. All of us know people who died fighting or from the Soviet terror.
As have most of us in the thread- in my case, drowned, burned, or otherwise blown to pieces through close encounters with assorted pieces of Soviet anti-ship ordinance, not to mention my up close and personal observation with the Soviet philosophy of 'liberating oppressed people'. Or, to paraphrase Tacitus, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem liberatio.

(OOC: hope the online translators & wikipedia got it close enough...)

Matt Wiser

Location:Auberry, CA
Colonel Moreau wasn't actually in the crew, but she knows the copilot, and got a first-hand account (including some stuff not in the book). How many times was the copilot asked to "entertain" warlords or their lieutenants? She knows. Several times, when given a choice, the night with the warlord was preferable to the alternative. As for Colonel Moreau, her first EASTERN EXPRESS mission was the still-classified Moscow run. The copilot (Col. Allison Whitney) hasn't said much publicly other than what's in the book.

Oh, if we find this lunatic and get assigned to go after him, I won't shoot him. I'll put a GBU-24 (2000-pounder) LGB down on his sorry excuse for a human being. Then the FBI, CIA, or whoever, can run whatever forensic tests to ID him. And if he's in a third country, then the "Other Government Agencies" can do whatever they want to him for all I care. Though if he's still in Mexico, SOCSOUTH (Special Operations Command Southern Command) will go after him...Since the war, most Americans just don't have any use for Marxists in any form, and there's some that feel morally obliged to kill them. Especially if they're unrepentant about the ComBloc's conduct during the war. As for during, well, I bombed ALA and collaborationist government targets on a number of times, and I don't lose any sleep over those strikes.

CNN's crew in Mexico City was finally able to get to the crash site: not much is left that resembles an airplane. And all the bodies burned beyond recognition: Mann, your F-22 driver did too good a job. No way to know who was on the plane-everything and everyone burned out. And the PLDP hasn't said who was on the plane-yet.

Pyro

statichaos said: ↑
Anyone who sees the dehumanizing process of capitalism in all of its glory.
And the lighting of 12-year-olds on fire, as the Soviets did during their occupation of Alberta, is the epitome of humanitarianism. Or maybe I should bring up the all the women raped in the occupied territories? Or maybe I should bring up my parents, decent working people who were killed when the Soviets intentionally targeted residential neighbourhoods. The Red Army and the Communists were little more than disguised fascists that bleated about the people when they were nothing more than an avaricious pack of thieves and thugs.

Your parents might as well had worn jackboots and swastikas while goosestepping in the town square.

OOC: Did I go overboard here? :confused:

Nikephoros

The damage left behind by the Soviets, their collaborators, and the anti-Communist guerrillas was horrifying in its intensity. Entire towns were massacred. Oftentimes, we couldn't tell who did what. Soviet weapons and ammo aren't clear signs of Soviet action. Anyone could have used those weapons.

I shudder to imagine what groups still exist in the Rocky Mountains today. With all the Sov surplus gear left lying around, those aren't groups to deal lightly with.

As for our troll, why the intense desire to kill him? Shouldn't free speech be a right, no matter what ideology you follow? Now, if he was a wanted terrorist, which I sincerely doubt, I'd put a bullet in his head myself.

But this guy is obviously not one. Probably just a jaded college student who gets a kick out of posting as a Commie.

TheMann

Matt Wiser said: ↑
Oh, if we find this lunatic and get assigned to go after him, I won't shoot him. I'll put a GBU-24 (2000-pounder) LGB down on his sorry excuse for a human being. Then the FBI, CIA, or whoever, can run whatever forensic tests to ID him. And if he's in a third country, then the "Other Government Agencies" can do whatever they want to him for all I care.
I hear ya on that one, I'd do the same. If he's within range of my Raptor, I'll happily smoke him, too.

Matt Wiser said: ↑
Though if he's still in Mexico, SOCSOUTH (Special Operations Command Southern Command) will go after him...Since the war, most Americans just don't have any use for Marxists in any form, and there's some that feel morally obliged to kill them. Especially if they're unrepentant about the ComBloc's conduct during the war. As for during, well, I bombed ALA and collaborationist government targets on a number of times, and I don't lose any sleep over those strikes.
Again, I am in total agreement. If this fool is found where I can get him, I'll get him, alright. My F-111 and F-16 drivers are always ready to send a Marxist to see God, or Lenin or whoever the hell it is they pray, just as much as I am.

Matt Wiser said: ↑
CNN's crew in Mexico City was finally able to get to the crash site: not much is left that resembles an airplane. And all the bodies burned beyond recognition: Mann, your F-22 driver did too good a job. No way to know who was on the plane-everything and everyone burned out. And the PLDP hasn't said who was on the plane-yet.
All he did was hit it with Sidewinders. Both missiles shot hit the right-side engines, which caused most of the right-side wing to break off as thing fell. I hope that the PDLP tells us ASAP who was on that IL-96. Those are big airplanes and any flying during the war had bigwigs aboard, guaranteed. Then we have thew fact that it attempted to get away from the Raptor drivers.

statichaos

So I've heard about various travesties allegedly committed by the Red Army. I'll take them as given. So, tell me, you wonderful warriors of the Amerikkkan system: How many innocent women and children did you kill for the glories of your imperialist masters?

Nikephoros

statichaos said: ↑
So I've heard about various travesties allegedly committed by the Red Army. I'll take them as given. So, tell me, you wonderful warriors of the Amerikkkan system: How many innocent women and children did you kill for the glories of your imperialist masters?
Me? None. Unless people on Soviet submarines are innocent women and children.

As for those guys, I can't testify. Given their desire to murder Marxists, I can make a guess though.

Pyro

statichaos said: ↑
So I've heard about various travesties allegedly committed by the Red Army. I'll take them as given. So, tell me, you wonderful warriors of the Amerikkkan system: How many innocent women and children did you kill for the glories of your imperialist masters?
Ironic you say the word "imperialist" when it was USSR that when on the "grandest" imperialist adventure of them all.

Matt Wiser

I agree with Pyro's latest remark. How anyone could call what that cabal in the Soviet Politburo started "liberation" is beyond me. Btw, Pyro, when your airshow season starts again north of the border, let us know, will ya? I want to bring some Strike Eagles from both the 419th and the 366th to the one near your neck of the woods.

Hey Mann, did your invite to the premiere of Wings of the Phantom arrive? You guys enjoying Texas hospitality at Goodfellow? At least here in La Paz, the beach at the Sheraton is good, the water's warm, and the tourists and locals are glad to see us. There's a popular bumper sticker going around since statehood was official and this little war got going-it's in both English and Spanish: "Jet Noise: The Sound of Freedom"

Still nothing yet on the plane's occupants, though the PLDP told the CNN crew that either "Enemies of the Mexican State" or "Unwelcome Foreign Nationals" were on board. Or both.

Whups, gotta go: J-STARS just picked up a division-sized force on Highway 15 moving north to Hermosillo and VIII Corps. Every F-15E at LeMay is going up-right now: 419th, 366th, 352nd. This is the last armored force that's still loyal to the MexGov, and we're going to take 'em out. Wish us luck; now it's time to go kill some tanks.

statichaos

Pyro said: ↑
Ironic you say the word "imperialist" when it was USSR that when on the "grandest" imperialist adventure of them all.
The United States of America had been a threat to freedom-loving peoples throughout the world since it first made the mistake of seeing the Soviet Union as an enemy, and sending soldiers in an attempt to circumvent the glorious revolution. The attempted liberation of the American heartland was an attempt to ensure that the agricultural bounty of the United States would be shared with the world at large, and not sold at market at prices that poverty-stricken countries could no realistically afford.

Nikephoros

statichaos said: ↑
The United States of America had been a threat to freedom-loving peoples throughout the world since it first made the mistake of seeing the Soviet Union as an enemy, and sending soldiers in an attempt to circumvent the glorious revolution. The attempted liberation of the American heartland was an attempt to ensure that the agricultural bounty of the United States would be shared with the world at large, and not sold at market at prices that poverty-stricken countries could no realistically afford.
You mean the agricultural bounty that was burnt by Soviet troops to deny a food source for the resistance? Most of the food that ended up in that zone was food from the Soviet Union. No wonder everyone was malnourished.

Thank god Canada's agricultural zones were untouched. There stores were all that separated us from disaster.

Besides, giving food to poverty-stricken countries, although admirable, does nothing to help them out. All it does is destroy what little agriculture they had.

Emergency food shipments are one thing. Flooding fragile economies with more free food than they can handle is another. At least a country that can afford to import that food has an economy that can handle being flushed with food.

Pyro

statichaos said: ↑
The United States of America had been a threat to freedom-loving peoples throughout the world since it first made the mistake of seeing the Soviet Union as an enemy, and sending soldiers in an attempt to circumvent the glorious revolution. The attempted liberation of the American heartland was an attempt to ensure that the agricultural bounty of the United States would be shared with the world at large, and not sold at market at prices that poverty-stricken countries could no realistically afford.
Gluttony pretty much describes the bourgeois of the Communist elite in the USSR. Unless you were a member of the Politburo, you pretty much had to live on sawdust while they dined on champagne and caviar.

statichaos

Nikephoros said: ↑
You mean the agricultural bounty that was burnt by Soviet troops to deny a food source for the resistance? Most of the food that ended up in that zone was food from the Soviet Union. No wonder everyone was malnourished.

Thank god Canada's agricultural zones were untouched. There stores were all that separated us from disaster.

Besides, giving food to poverty-stricken countries, although admirable, does nothing to help them out. All it does is destroy what little agriculture they had.

Emergency food shipments are one thing. Flooding fragile economies with more free food than they can handle is another. At least a country that can afford to import that food has an economy that can handle being flushed with food.
It was meant for the Soviet Union at a price that would have bankrupted them.

A convenient excuse. Perhaps you are too young to remember the starvation that was occurring in Ethiopia at the time of the invasion of the People's Army.

Yes, food sources in some areas were reluctantly destroyed when local fascist forces decided to plot terrorist campaigns against the occupying army. Sad but necessary in a time of armed conflict. Had they chosen to ally themselves with their liberators, then such unfortunate actions would have been deemed wholly unnecessary.

statichaos

Pyro said: ↑
Gluttony pretty much describes the bourgeois of the Communist elite in the USSR. Unless you were a member of the Politburo, you pretty much had to live on sawdust while they dined on champagne and caviar.
Once you get your information from something other than an American cold war spy thriller, we'll have something to discuss. Until then, you're beneath contempt.

Nikephoros

statichaos said: ↑
A convenient excuse. Perhaps you are too young to remember the starvation that was occurring in Ethiopia at the time of the invasion of the People's Army.

Yes, food sources in some areas were reluctantly destroyed when local fascist forces decided to plot terrorist campaigns against the occupying army. Sad but necessary in a time of armed conflict. Had they chosen to ally themselves with their liberators, then such unfortunate actions would have been deemed wholly unnecessary.
So starving innocents is alright as long as they ally with the wrong people?

statichaos

Nikephoros said: ↑
So starving innocents is alright as long as they ally with the wrong people?

Right:rolleyes::mad:
By taking food from the occupying army--which was attempting to distribute it more equally among all people--they were showing the worst traits of the capitalist character.

If they wanted food so badly, they could have applied for ration cards and waited in line like everyone else. Sacrifices must be made for the good of all.

[lordroel]

From page 100

Pyro

Likewise, I'm sure. It's a pity such a mind was wasted on an ideology based on envy and avarice. It was pretty clear that the USSR was going to collapse under its own weight one way or another, they gambled whatever they had left and lost.

Ming777

Hmmm, a few of my older Officers would like to speak with you, youn troll (not you Pyro.). My major knew most of the people the Commies slaughtered at Comox. You know, I pulled a few strings. Look forward to a visit from JTF 2 and Delta Force...

statichaos

Pyro said: ↑
Likewise, I'm sure. It's a pity such a mind was wasted on an ideology based on envy and avarice. It was pretty clear that the USSR was going to collapse under its own weight one way or another, they gambled whatever they had left and lost.
Envy? Avarice? For nearly 70 years before the liberation wars, the Soviet Union had been beset by enemies both domestic and foreign while the United States lay untouched across the ocean. How dare you judge them? How dare you judge a people who, with little more than cunning and some arms, managed to overthrow the cruel despot Tsar Nicholas? How dare you insult the tens of millions who died in the fields and cities of Russia in their successful attempt to drive the monsters of fascism back across the Eastern Front? How dare you sneer at those who follow an ideology of fairness, freedom, and equality for all people?

You sat fat and happy in your homes, able to pick and choose your conflicts, overthrowing governments in Central and South America to suit the whims of your corporate masters, putting your sticky fingers in pies on every continent, and intervening with the CIA whenever someone even CONSIDERED nationalizing important public resources, and you dare accuse the SOVIETS of greed and avarice?

I should no longer be astounded by such displays of arrogance, but Americans still manage to shock me.

statichaos

Ming777 said: ↑
Hmmm, a few of my older Officers would like to speak with you, youn troll (not you Pyro.). My major knew most of the people the Commies slaughtered at Comox. You know, I pulled a few strings. Look forward to a visit from JTF 2 and Delta Force...
Yes, the American way: "We don't like what you're saying, so we'll blow you up." Again, capitalist pig, please catch me if you can.

Ming777

Sigh....are you that dense?!?!? We are traced your location and we are tracking you as of now. Remember, every post you make has been traced and trangulated to you exact position. Oh and you know that neighbor of yours, the one who always says hello on the street outside your home every day? Well.....

Nikephoros

OOC: I think this is going far enough.

statichaos

Heh. Nice try, but you gave yourself away in the last post.

OOC: Okay, posting in the style of this guy is making me to to some VERY STRANGE places in my brain.

Ming777

OCC: sorry about that, couldn't resist. statichaos, no offence.

IC: And what I meant was that neighbor has been reporting your locations for the past few days.

Pyro

statichaos said: ↑
Envy? Avarice? For nearly 70 years before the liberation wars, the Soviet Union had been beset by enemies both domestic and foreign while the United States lay untouched across the ocean. How dare you judge them? How dare you judge a people who, with little more than cunning and some arms, managed to overthrow the cruel despot Tsar Nicholas? How dare you insult the tens of millions who died in the fields and cities of Russia in their successful attempt to drive the monsters of fascism back across the Eastern Front? How dare you sneer at those who follow an ideology of fairness, freedom, and equality for all people?

You sat fat and happy in your homes, able to pick and choose your conflicts, overthrowing governments in Central and South America to suit the whims of your corporate masters, putting your sticky fingers in pies on every continent, and intervening with the CIA whenever someone even CONSIDERED nationalizing important public resources, and you dare accuse the SOVIETS of greed and avarice?

I should no longer be astounded by such displays of arrogance, but Americans still manage to shock me.
And it astounds me how you glossed over Stalin's purges and the mass starvation he inflicted in the Ukraine that killed who knows how many million people before the Second World War. Let's not forget the KGB's ops around Asia, the Middle East, and Africa. As much as you espouse the so-called ideology of "fairness, freedom, and equality". All Lenin and Trotsky cared about was power and soothing their own egos and Stalin was genocidal maniac on par with Adolf Hilter. All the communists were, and continue to be, are a bunch of conniving weasels that steal what they envy.

That being said, I have more important things to do than argue with another brainwashed Marxist drone. Notably cataloguing the REAL history of the war and not some Red's perverted little fantasy.

OOC: ...and I'm done. Good night y'all.

statichaos

Ming777 said: ↑
OCC: sorry about that, couldn't resist. statichaos, no offence.

IC: And what I meant was that neighbor has been reporting your locations for the past few days.

OOC: None taken, but I see the point of toning down the violence in some of the rhetoric.

IC: Amazing, and I thought that neighbors reporting on each other was supposed to be one of the nasty things that the dirty commies did, or at least that's what I read in American books while growing up.

Interesting that you assume that I have a neighbor, or that I'm staying in one place for more than one night at a time.

statichaos

Pyro said: ↑
And it astounds me how you glossed over Stalin's purges and the mass starvation he inflicted in the Ukraine that killed who knows how many million people before the Second World War. Let's not forget the KGB's ops around Asia, the Middle East, and Africa. As much as you espouse the so-called ideology of "fairness, freedom, and equality". All Lenin and Trotsky cared about was power and soothing their own egos and Stalin was genocidal maniac on par with Adolf Hilter. All the communists were, and continue to be, are a bunch of conniving weasels to steal what they envy.
Stalin, his excesses, and his cult of personality were all renounced by the Soviet Union. He could have been a great man (witness his bold leadership during WWII), but he sadly began to think of himself as greater than the cause. The rest of your comments about other Soviet leaders could be said about any revolutionary throughout history.

Pyro

OOC: Oh yeah, and before I call it a night. Just wanted to say it was a blast "sparring" with your counterpart, statichaos.

Before I forget, the Lethbridge Air Show is own August 21 & 22. I already have the vacation time booked. Hope to see you there.

statichaos

OOC: You, too! After having to write from a scary right-wing perspective in my TL for so long, it's an interesting change to write from a scary left-wing perspective.

TheMann

Matt Wiser said: ↑
Hey Mann, did your invite to the premiere of Wings of the Phantom arrive?
I did, my friend. Chinese Theatre in Hollywood, damn. I'll have to get the AF to clear me taking the Raptor over, I think. I got a call just before I left for Texas from the guy who plays me in the movie, Lucas Black. Nice guy, though I hope he worked the accent off before his role in the movie.

Matt Wiser said: ↑
You guys enjoying Texas hospitality at Goodfellow?
You better believe it. I'm getting a bit worried about fitting into my flight suit if I keep eating like I have been. We're all staying on the base here, but the locals have been keeping a whole bunch of charcoal grills going 15 hours a day, and making sure we get the best food in the country. The Governor of Texas and her family paid us a visit yesterday, too. One of her granddaughters was hitting on one of Raptor drivers all night. The Governor is a genuinely nice person, too.

One of the locals is originally from Monterrey, staunchly anti-communist though. He's in a wheelchair from a bullet in the spine some time back (apparently he fought for the resistance in the war), but he's genuinely happy to see us. He's a painter of some renown, and he made a big painting of 352nd Wing planes from a picture taken some back in NC, but a Texas background. The line underneath reads "To the brave men and women of the 352nd Wing, United States Air Force: We Believe in You." That's going on the wall of my office back at Seymour-Johnson, you can bank on that. I paid the guy back by getting a big print of a F-22, and signing it "You have done us a great honor, and we thank you, sir. Signed, Brigadier General Adrian "Superbird" Faulkner, commanding officer, 352nd Wing, United States Air Force." My pilots here all signed it, too.

Matt Wiser said: ↑
At least here in La Paz, the beach at the Sheraton is good, the water's warm, and the tourists and locals are glad to see us. There's a popular bumper sticker going around since statehood was official and this little war got going-it's in both English and Spanish: "Jet Noise: The Sound of Freedom"
Yeah, I see a lot of that sticker on cars around here, too, in both languages. You always get the feeling that those who suffered from the Reds are always happy to see us around?

Matt Wiser said: ↑
Still nothing yet on the plane's occupants, though the PLDP told the CNN crew that either "Enemies of the Mexican State" or "Unwelcome Foreign Nationals" were on board. Or both.
Hmmm. What to infer from that one, I don't quite know.

I'm rolling too, a Mexican Army Infantry division is headed towards the Marines at Veracruz. Seems like my guy musta not got the Mexican bigshots, because otherwise where the hell did they get the balls to start fighting back now? A Royal Air Force Sentinel picked them up headed towards the Marines. I don't think so, punks......lots of SDBs for this one, I suspect.

TheMann

Pyro said: ↑
Before I forget, the Lethbridge Air Show is own August 21 & 22. I already have the vacation time booked. Hope to see you there.
Hmmm. Between Victory Day and the Wings of the Phantom premiere, I'm gonna be moving quite a bit......oh, and my guys got called out to go to RIAT, too. That's gonna be fun, I get to go to Great Britain again. I'll see if I can get up to Canada for one.

Ming777 said: ↑
Hmmm, a few of my older Officers would like to speak with you, youn troll (not you Pyro.). My major knew most of the people the Commies slaughtered at Comox. You know, I pulled a few strings. Look forward to a visit from JTF 2 and Delta Force...
Did you get him?

And if not, is he anywhere near Goodfellow AFB in Texas or LeMay AFB in Baja California?

Matt Wiser

Got a little break: the MexGov seems to want to go down fighting-my intel officer said that a radio station in Acapulco broadcast a defiant message from the MexGov, vowing to "fight to the end against the invaders and the traitors." Guess that airliner was full of lefties and some mid-level MexGov folks.....anyway, haven't been flying this hard since the last days in Texas twenty-plus years ago. Back then we didn't have much night vision, but now....with LANTIRN, the F-15E flies just as good at night as in the daytime. We had the Weasel Vipers go in ahead of us, killing the SA-6s and ZSU-23-4s, and then we got to work. Mavericks and either CBU-87s or Rockeyes on tanks and APCs, while Mark-82s go for the soft-skinned stuff. We've got four-ships going every 10 minutes from all three Wings, and I've got another one going in ten minutes, so wish us good luck and good hunting.

Hey Mann, looks like we'll be doing two shows, plus the movie premiere.
The director's cut DVD will be given to the aircrews there.

Hope someone finds this ComBloc apologist and takes care of him-one way or another. I'd sure like to know where this guy was during the war. Maybe he was like that UCLA Prof now sitting in a Federal Lockup in Miami..somewhere out of the country and taking it easy while the bullets were flying.

thepenguin

Hell, for that matter, is he near Holloman? Just got back from Hermosillo. Knocked out SAM tracks and the ZSU 23mm tracks. I think I literally saved Matt's ass whacking that one Shilka with a HARM. My other Viper Weasels did work too. Now I'm on the hot pit waiting to see if we're going to Veracruz to help out the Devil Dogs (I told my crew chief to have a laptop waiting ). I'm going to Lethbridge. Me, Col. Franklin, Col. Jenkins, and Lt. Col. Perkins (he finally made Light Colonel :p) are going to be there with our planes. Then it's on to MAPLE FLAG. I'm commander of the wing now, the CO bought it after a clot dislodged and caused a stroke. He was fine before that, just rolled out after an attack on that Flanker base then he just nosed in. You ever see a car driving down the road and then suddenly veer off the road? Just like that. He wasn't hit. There was no air defenses in the area and we took care of the flying stuff when we did the prelim air strikes.

Matt Wiser

That was you? Glad you were down there: two Shilkas (ZSU-23-4) were getting frisky: one of them had Kelly Ann Ray locked up, and one had me in his sights, when somebody blew them to pieces. Expect some "liquid refreshment" via FedEx in a few days.... One of the embeds with VIII Corps (14th ACR) was saying the Army was hoping some of the MexGov armor would survive all the Air Force attention: they haven't had any action since they rolled into Hermosillo. Three hops last night, and I finally got some sleep about 0430. Back on the schedule about 1200, so there's more targets to service on Hwy 15, it appears. The 352nd guys at LeMay (the old "Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney" of WW II fame) have been busy, along with Lisa's 366th. Kara led her 390th TFS (the Wild Boars) up there, and she had three sorties last night, which seems to be the average for everyone. The maintenance folks have been giving us a 30-minute turnaround, so everyone's been busy.

JN1

I'd love to invite our new commie friend to our next HSF Association reunion this year. After he explains his point of view to us he can join us down at the firing range; of course he might find the later a bit painful seeing as we'll be filling him with 7.62mm NATO rounds.

TheMann,
I'm planning to make a trip to the RIAT this year, so I'll look you up.

[lordroel]

From page 101

Nikephoros

JN1 said: ↑
I'd love to invite our new commie friend to our next HSF Association reunion this year. After he explains his point of view to us he can join us down at the firing range; of course he might find the later a bit painful seeing as we'll be filling him with 7.62mm NATO rounds.

TheMann,
I'm planning to make a trip to the RIAT this year, so I'll look you up.
People never seem to learn:

Nikephoros said: ↑
OOC: I think this is going far enough.
Reported.

Matt Wiser

If the AF sends any F-15Es to RIAT from the States, hopefully they'll send us-a pair from both the 366th and 419th. Be glad to go across the pond for something other than an exercise, though I did enjoy the two-week deployment to Isley AFB on Saipan-fly in the daytime and evenings on the beach. Sorta like we've had here at LeMay since this little war got going.

Well, seems our flying got bumped up: wheels-up in five minutes. There's still a good deal of armor moving up Highway 15, so we've got more tanks to plink. Used some laser bombs on the last one, and the ordies have some more loaded. The main worry now that the air defense threat has been reduced is midairs: there's so many aircraft up there AWACS tells us to get in line and wait our turn.

JN1

OOC: statichaos is writing from the perspective of an unreconstructed Communist. If this was real he would seriously be getting up the noses of the veterans we're all pretending to be, just as say, a Neo-Nazi would WW2 veterans.
It's nothing personal and I for one certainly don't actually want to fill him full of bullets and I would hope he realises that.

statichaos

OOC: Seeing as how the requests on the part of other posters to refrain from even IC threats of violence are being ignored, I think that it would be best for me to quit this thread. I thank you for the entertainment so far, though, and hope that you've enjoyed my participation as well.

Note that I'm not taking them personally, but there is a fuzzy line that can get crossed, and I'd hate to be the one who flamebaited others into crossing it.

TheMann

Chalk another nice run for the 352nd Wing, USAF. That RAF Sentinel crew knows their business, they not only got an eyeball on that Infantry division, they got good enough ground co-ordinates that the Navy guys softened 'em up with Tomahawks before we even got there. And true to form, all the F-111s and F-16s carried lots and lots of SDBs, with a few Mk-84s to wake 'em up and scare the piss out of them. They got cut up nice and quick. Two dumb MiG-21 pilots came up from a local airfield, and I busted both their chops with Sidewinders. Two more for the F-22. Do these fools ever learn?

Anyways, the opening for Wings of the Phantom in the UK is the same week as RIAT, so I'll be going to two premieres for it. Nice. JN1, Let's make sure we find each other while we're there. I'll also have to visit that ex-Tornado ADV flier who saved my bacon all that time ago.

thepenguin

Matt Wiser said: ↑
That was you? Glad you were down there: two Shilkas (ZSU-23-4) were getting frisky: one of them had Kelly Ann Ray locked up, and one had me in his sights, when somebody blew them to pieces. Expect some "liquid refreshment" via FedEx in a few days.... One of the embeds with VIII Corps (14th ACR) was saying the Army was hoping some of the MexGov armor would survive all the Air Force attention: they haven't had any action since they rolled into Hermosillo. Three hops last night, and I finally got some sleep about 0430. Back on the schedule about 1200, so there's more targets to service on Hwy 15, it appears. The 352nd guys at LeMay (the old "Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney" of WW II fame) have been busy, along with Lisa's 366th. Kara led her 390th TFS (the Wild Boars) up there, and she had three sorties last night, which seems to be the average for everyone. The maintenance folks have been giving us a 30-minute turnaround, so everyone's been busy.
Yep, that was me. We've been loading out with four HARMs and two Slammers and fuel tanks on the first hop, then we've been going to six MK 82s on TERs, two HARMs and two Slammers for the rest. We'll be doing that until the SAMs and Shilkas are completely destroyed, then we'll go to bombs and Mavericks. The wing will take Miller Genuine Draft and Miller High Life:p:D.

JN1

statichaos said: ↑
OOC: Seeing as how the requests on the part of other posters to refrain from even IC threats of violence are being ignored, I think that it would be best for me to quit this thread. I thank you for the entertainment so far, though, and hope that you've enjoyed my participation as well.

Note that I'm not taking them personally, but there is a fuzzy line that can get crossed, and I'd hate to be the one who flamebaited others into crossing it.
OOC: I didn't spot the request to refrain, so it's my fault that they continued, for which I apologise. I certainly did not intend any real violence and I thought that your IC writings were well done and brought something new to this thread.

JN1

TheMann said: ↑
Chalk another nice run for the 352nd Wing, USAF. That RAF Sentinel crew knows their business, they not only got an eyeball on that Infantry division, they got good enough ground co-ordinates that the Navy guys softened 'em up with Tomahawks before we even got there. And true to form, all the F-111s and F-16s carried lots and lots of SDBs, with a few Mk-84s to wake 'em up and scare the piss out of them. They got cut up nice and quick. Two dumb MiG-21 pilots came up from a local airfield, and I busted both their chops with Sidewinders. Two more for the F-22. Do these fools ever learn?

Anyways, the opening for Wings of the Phantom in the UK is the same week as RIAT, so I'll be going to two premieres for it. Nice. JN1, Let's make sure we find each other while we're there. I'll also have to visit that ex-Tornado ADV flier who saved my bacon all that time ago.
The Sentinel is a very good piece of kit, a great deal more advanced than the E-8 JSTARS. I take it we've provided the mobile ground stations that go with the Sentinel? They're not vital, but it is the best way to utilise the aircraft's capabilities. :-D

I'll make sure I make time to see the film and I'll buy you a beer at the RIAT. Better beware, most British beers have a much higher alcohol content than their American counterparts.
That reminds me beer and spirits was another thing that the war hurt. It was night on impossible to get a decent pint by 1988 and we're still experiencing shortages of decent single malt whisky; the really good stuff needs at least 20 years and there was very little being distilled back then.

Ming777

OCC: I didn't mean to go that overboard. statichaos, but considering how badly destroyed Vancouver was ITTL, my alter ego, being affected by the destruction, got riled up and decided enough was enough. I know you're probably a good guy in real life. Your alter ego, OTOH, is unfortunately was asking for it.

statichaos

OOC: Oh, I understand the reasoning, and thought that the comments were IC. I just saw the potential for real issues. And I enjoyed participating, so thank you!

CiH

we're still experiencing shortages of decent single malt whisky; the really good stuff needs at least 20 years and there was very little being distilled back then.
Dammit, war really is hell!

JN1

CiH said: ↑
Dammit, war really is hell!
Indeed, to make matters worse most of what we did make has gone for export to earn dollars. Annoyingly none of the ships carrying it chose to run aground off the Scottish west coast.

JN1

statichaos said: ↑
OOC: Oh, I understand the reasoning, and thought that the comments were IC. I just saw the potential for real issues. And I enjoyed participating, so thank you!
OOC: If this was real and not DBWI then I'm sure someone would appear to support the Soviet position and the vets would insult them. Anyone who visits a discussion forum of any sort will have seen pretty serious arguments between posters and that's without any of them getting rilled up because they've been through a war and someone else is supporting the other side.

A pro-Soviet view certainly made this thread that bit more interesting and lively!

Matt Wiser

OOC: A pro-Soviet view did make the thread more lively!

IC: Penguin, you'll be getting the delivery in a few days, but right now, all three wings at LeMay are pretty busy. I just landed from my third mission of the day (and the only night one), and I'm pretty beat from all the time in the cockpit. It was pretty busy up there, with F-15Es, F-16s, and even some A-10s from Davis-Monthan, that the FACs just told people to "get in line and wait your turn." There were a few MiGs that did come up-from Puerto Vallarta would be my guess, and these were the last ones the MexGov had-on the Pacific Coast, anyway. I got a MiG-21, as did Kelly Ann Ray, Kara got another, as did her wingie, and Lisa and her pilot got a MiG-19. The MiG-21s were Fishbed-J models, old birds, granted, but still deadly in the right hands. Well, we didn't give them a chance, and they ate AIM-120s as soon as AWACS gave the "Clear to Arm, Clear to Fire" call. These might have been the last ones the MexGov had, because when we came back from the last hop, my intel officer had some new photos from a U-2 over Puerto Vallarta and Mazatlan, and they show the ramp areas there clear. Don't know yet about Acapulco, but that's the Navy's AO.

Wings of the Phantom premieres on a Tuesday, which gives those of us Blue-Suiters who will be there a day to get to RIAT and have a rest day before the show starts.

Panzerfaust, you'd have to try and get the copilot (Col. Allision Whitney) to give a talk, but since the 97th BW is finally making the transition from the B-52G to the J model, she's otherwise occupied, I bet.

We may have an idea as to who was on the shot-down airliner; a French TV crew also doing stuff for CBS went to the crash site and found some locals who'd dragged some bodies clear of the wreckage. The bodies had U.S. and Canadian passports, and since the FBI and Canadian "Wanted" lists of collaborators and other lefties are online, the French crew did a check. Guess what? Four of the bodies are on the FBI list, one's on the Canadian list, and two are on both! Mann, your F-22 guy just did everyone a favor: he splashed the leftie bug-out to Caracas, I do believe.

TheMann

Matt Wiser said: ↑
IC: Penguin, you'll be getting the delivery in a few days, but right now, all three wings at LeMay are pretty busy. I just landed from my third mission of the day (and the only night one), and I'm pretty beat from all the time in the cockpit. It was pretty busy up there, with F-15Es, F-16s, and even some A-10s from Davis-Monthan, that the FACs just told people to "get in line and wait your turn." There were a few MiGs that did come up-from Puerto Vallarta would be my guess, and these were the last ones the MexGov had-on the Pacific Coast, anyway. I got a MiG-21, as did Kelly Ann Ray, Kara got another, as did her wingie, and Lisa and her pilot got a MiG-19. The MiG-21s were Fishbed-J models, old birds, granted, but still deadly in the right hands. Well, we didn't give them a chance, and they ate AIM-120s as soon as AWACS gave the "Clear to Arm, Clear to Fire" call. These might have been the last ones the MexGov had, because when we came back from the last hop, my intel officer had some new photos from a U-2 over Puerto Vallarta and Mazatlan, and they show the ramp areas there clear. Don't know yet about Acapulco, but that's the Navy's AO.
I've only flown one today, but my F-111s have very long legs, so I'm taking once on the way down, once on the way home. Gives you an idea of just how far I'm talking about here.

That infantry division has been annihalated, and damn boy, that RAF Sentinel crew continues to amaze me. We need to get us some of those - even the J-STARS hasn't got what that does. They are staying with us at Goodfellow and flying out with the fighters, and they were today communicating with us via tactical info nets. The infantry division's remnants shacked themselves up in a village while running away, but the place was full of civilians. The Sentinel crew picked out which buildings had hostages in them, and we were real careful with the SDB drops. Result is lots of dead MexGov troops, very few civilian casualties, and a number of them got picked up by Marine SH-60s and got flown out to USS Comfort in the Bay of Campeche. The RAF crew wasn't wrong once on what building to hit. Not even ONCE. Now, I have flown with J-STARS before, but I don't think they coulda said that this time around. JN1, dude, I will be putting in a recommendation to my superiors for those things when I get back to North Carolina.

Matt Wiser said: ↑
Wings of the Phantom premieres on a Tuesday, which gives those of us Blue-Suiters who will be there a day to get to RIAT and have a rest day before the show starts.
So, you're going too? Excellent. You and I and the Brits will have to show some of the other guests how you fly a fighter plane, even if a F-15E is more frequently a bombtruck than an airborne terminator. The AF wants my F-22 to stay at home for the Wings of the Phantom premiere, but apparently the good folks at the USAF Museum have just finished restoring a F-4E to flying condition, and wondered if I'd take it out to California for the premiere. No points for guessing what my response was. I'm gonna see if my old RIO from my Marine days is interested in coming along for the ride.

Matt Wiser said: ↑
We may have an idea as to who was on the shot-down airliner; a French TV crew also doing stuff for CBS went to the crash site and found some locals who'd dragged some bodies clear of the wreckage. The bodies had U.S. and Canadian passports, and since the FBI and Canadian "Wanted" lists of collaborators and other lefties are online, the French crew did a check. Guess what? Four of the bodies are on the FBI list, one's on the Canadian list, and two are on both! Mann, your F-22 guy just did everyone a favor: he splashed the leftie bug-out to Caracas, I do believe.
Well now, I was hoping to hear about that. I know that the FBI and CIA guys were headed down to check out what they could find amongst the wreckage, and as I said before, IL-96s are big airplanes, which means either lots of small pains in the ass in a few big ones. Not that I care either way, of course, dead commies are dead commies.

I am definitely hoping that one of those on that plane was the cocksucker who tried to assist ComBloc troops to land in Seattle. They did little more than piss off the Washington NG, but the leader of 'em, Andrew McAllister, was never found, until somebody eyeballed him in Mexico City about a year ago. If I find out that McAllister is among the departed, those F-22 drivers are gonna get their nights on me when we get back to Seymour Johnson.

thepenguin


Good to hear that things are gonna calm down a little again. Matt: We're not gonna be impatient, we can wait. Other than the action Matt had over Hermosillo, is there any more Mexican fighters waiting to be shot down? We had a day off today (shocking, yes, but...) because there were so many aircraft over that infantry division at Hermosillo-we would have brought back what we took off with. We'll be flying CAP tomorrow south of Hermosillo and Chihuahua (between the two). Hopefully there's still more stars to be painted on the Viper.

Matt Wiser

I don't think so, Penguin; unless there's a few down Acapulco way, that should be it. The MiGs and Sukhois here (somebody claimed an Su-7 on Day two, I think) have all either been shot out of the sky or destroyed on the ground. Acapulco's the Navy's AO, so I imagine Nimitz and Carl Vinson may still have some work to do. Anyway, that armored division headed up to Hermosillo has been chewed up, and I doubt there'll be much left for VIII Corps to take care of. Anyhow, one of my reservists with the 419th works for a beer distributor in Idaho Falls, so he'll handle the delivery. (He's one of my maintenance officers at the moment)

Same here: they don't want me using my F-15E for the Hollywood trip, so I'll take my F-4 for a little trip to California. I can use the Strike Eagle the next day, so I go from the Van Nuys ANG base back to Hill, pick up the Beagle and my WSO, and then head to the East Coast, and from there across the Pond.

According to the Frenchmen, McAlister is one of the names they checked out. The body matches the passport pic....Seems the bodies the French TV guys found all got sucked out before impact-which explains why they're recognizable. Unless there's others, the others are all believed burned beyond recognition or are otherwise unrecognizable. They'll have to do full DNA on 'em to get the necessary IDs and check people off the wanted list.

DD951

All right, it's ok to insult commie sympathizers and report those claiming to be terrorists, traitors, and other such criminals to the authorities, but personally threatening them with violence publicly is something else- it might not be anywhere near the level of treason or war crimes, but it's still something the Department of Justice frowns upon.

TheMann said: ↑
Well now, I was hoping to hear about that. I know that the FBI and CIA guys were headed down to check out what they could find amongst the wreckage, and as I said before, IL-96s are big airplanes, which means either lots of small pains in the ass in a few big ones. Not that I care either way, of course, dead commies are dead commies. I am definitely hoping that one of those on that plane was the cocksucker who tried to assist ComBloc troops to land in Seattle. They did little more than piss off the Washington NG, but the leader of 'em, Andrew McAllister, was never found, until somebody eyeballed him in Mexico City about a year ago. If I find out that McAllister is among the departed, those F-22 drivers are gonna get their nights on me when we get back to Seymour Johnson.
Matt Wiser said: ↑
According to the Frenchmen, McAlister is one of the names they checked out. The body matches the passport pic....Seems the bodies the French TV guys found all got sucked out before impact-which explains why they're recognizable. Unless there's others, the others are all believed burned beyond recognition or are otherwise unrecognizable. They'll have to do full DNA on 'em to get the necessary IDs and check people off the wanted list.
'Red Andy' McAllister- I remember that bastard quite well. Long time obnoxious commie gadfly before the war, person of interest in the firebombing of Clark Hall (UW's ROTC building) in the 1960s (although not enough evidence to support charges), and general PITA. Once, back in early 1984, when I was earning a bit of extra cash by working part-time as a photographer for UW's student paper, I had to cover a speech he gave on campus- what an arrogant, crazy, and idiotic jackass- guy talked like he was a mixture of the SDS, Weathermen, and the SLA radicals of the 1960s, but not actually willing to get his hands dirty in practicing what he preached, and spouted conspiracy theories that made LaRouche sound halfway sane. The poor reporter who had to write the story ended up having to write several drafts before coming up with something that didn't look it belonged with the editorials or on the humor page.

Anyway, we were kind of surprised when he turned out to be heavily involved in recruiting and operating auxiliary forces and terrorist cells, as we didn't think he had the balls or the brains to pull that off at the time. Some of the groups involved at Pt. Roberts as well as that terrorist cell responsible for bombing those schools and hospitals which I helped prosecute that I mentioned a couple months ago were among his handiwork. He was one of those who disappeared after Vancouver was retaken from the Soviets, and thought to have been killed in the fighting but ended up finding their way into the ratline to Mexico; otherwise he would have been near the top of the FBI's 10 Most Wanted List for operations designed to kill lots of children and hospital patients that he set up. In retrospect, his apparent insanity was a good cover story, and a lot of us wondered if he wasn't one of those KGB deep penetration sleeper agents with orders to facilitate civil unrest, terrorism, acts of sabotage, assist Spetznaz, and set up arms caches in the event of war between the US & the USSR. Well, good riddance to the SOB, and at least the taxpayers won't have to foot the bill to have him tried & hanged.

JN1 said: ↑
Indeed, to make matters worse most of what we did make has gone for export to earn dollars. Annoyingly none of the ships carrying it chose to run aground off the Scottish west coast.

Well, it's pretty hard to find any sort of decent single malt scotch for a reasonable price here- a bottle of Laphroaig 10 yr. is $165 before state taxes kick in (you don't want to know what sort of bidding war goes on in the rare event anything older or higher quality reaches the stores), and even the mass market blended stuff is pretty pricey- a fifth of Johnny Walker Black Label retails for about $80. (OOC- the most expensive item I saw in a state liquor store a couple years ago was a 750-ml bottle of Johnny Walker Blue Label for $210, liquor taxes included, that bottle of the Black Label is about $50 IRL, IIRC.) Bourbon and Canadian whiskey just aren't the same....

Pyro

Location:Neither here nor there
Though there were no shortage of commie sympathizers and traitors, there were also quite a few Marxists opposed to the invasion, notably Prof. Richard Bergsom who you might remember for his book "Behind the Iron Curtain: An Inside Look at the Fall of the Soviet Empire". He used to be with the History Department at UBC, and about as red as one gets but he condemned the invasion as "counterproductive to the revolution". When the Soviets wanted his cooperation, he refused so they shot his wife point-blank in the head in from of him and his young daughter. He spent most of the war in a prison camp but by war's end he dedicated himself to exposing the sham that was the Soviet Union.

It's no secret that the Politburo was in deep trouble before the war as the worst famine in decades hit, the economy stagnant, and the people growing restless. So they sold the war as forcing the capitalists to share their bounty in order to cover their own butts. However, as someone pointed out, the ComBloc burned most of the crops in the midwest but didn't mention that is was at the order of the Premier himself. Thankfully, the people started to realize that their lot was not improving, and even the middle and lower tiers of the Party started to demand accountability, hence the purges. It's amazing how Bergsom managed to get his hands on some of these documents out of the rump USSR, I actually got to see a few before we sent them to Philly. By Bergsom's estimates, the Politburo purged nearly 60% of the party but it was too late by then as the USSR lost its grip on Eastern Europe by then and even a few Soviet republics broke away. It just goes to show when you gamble everything on a foolish venture, you will lose.

As for Bergsom, while he does have some Marxist sympathies, he no longer believes in revolution of anykind and instead helped found the Social Democratic Party of Canada from the remnants of the NDP and some dissenting Liberals. But I will never what he told Peter Mansbridge in an interview when asked out his past as a red: "the cost of revolution in innocent blood is too high and the only purpose of communism is to demean the individual and to justify avarice in the name of the people."

Matt Wiser

Hey Pryo, did he ever say how he obtained those documents? I remember watching the war-crimes trials and seeing those read in court before being introduced as evidence. Incidentally, one of the other big sources at the trials (and Panzerfaust may remember him) was a KGB defector with the rank of Major General; Kalugin was his name IIRC. Spoke fluent English, had plenty of documents that he brought over when he defected (how and when are still classified, according to the LA Times), but he was a major prosecution witness at some of the proceedings. They say he's still in the Witness Protection Program, as the Rump USSR still has a price on his head. At least there's one Marxist out there who's come out and said the invasion was a bad idea: many of the ones who've fled either the U.S. or Canada or are still in jail in both countries are pretty unrepentant about supporting it. At least most of those who were in Mexico have been taken care of-a few have been picked up, while many were on that airliner...The PLDP had better turn any remaining ones over. Soon.

There was a presser in Philly with SECSTATE and SECDEF: seems the PLDP is serious about a cease-fire, but are stalling for time (to clean house, perhaps?). They'd better do as they're told, regarding remaining lefties, war reparations, etc. Or else.

I'd like to know if they found that ex-Univ. of Colorado professor-the one that the AF Academy cadets said the good people of the State could go ahead and lynch if they wanted to for hiding his "auxiliary" service. He had a beach house that the Marines raided near Tampico, but they only found his wife and kids. If he was on that airliner, well....

[lordroel]

From page 102

TheMann

Matt Wiser said: ↑
I don't think so, Penguin; unless there's a few down Acapulco way, that should be it. The MiGs and Sukhois here (somebody claimed an Su-7 on Day two, I think) have all either been shot out of the sky or destroyed on the ground. Acapulco's the Navy's AO, so I imagine Nimitz and Carl Vinson may still have some work to do. Anyway, that armored division headed up to Hermosillo has been chewed up, and I doubt there'll be much left for VIII Corps to take care of. Anyhow, one of my reservists with the 419th works for a beer distributor in Idaho Falls, so he'll handle the delivery. (He's one of my maintenance officers at the moment)
Yeah, I think considering how many Mexican AF planes have been shot down, I don't think there is much left. We haven't seen anything since those MiG-21s I shot down. One of my F-16 crews dropped an ancient Mexican C-130, but other than that, nothing. My brother's CVN (USS Midway, CVN-74) is off Acapulco, and they got a whole crapload of Mexican AF MiG-21s and MiG-23s on the ground there, and haven't seen much airborne since then. Salem and St. Paul have been busy, however, because Mexican Army trucks with AShMs have been firing all over the place, he says. Recon birds have been providing targets for the heavy cruisers, which have been blasting at anything that the recon guys are sending them.

Matt Wiser said: ↑
Same here: they don't want me using my F-15E for the Hollywood trip, so I'll take my F-4 for a little trip to California. I can use the Strike Eagle the next day, so I go from the Van Nuys ANG base back to Hill, pick up the Beagle and my WSO, and then head to the East Coast, and from there across the Pond.
Pretty much the same deal here, too. I'm taking that custom 777 to Wright-Patterson to pick up the F-4, then on to California. I'm also landing an Van Nuys ANG, then on the way home I'm making a stop at Tinker AFB for a refuel, then on to Seymour-Johnson. Another pilot is then taking the F-4 back to Ohio, while I grab my F-22 and head out. I'm stopping at Goose Bay in Labrador and then again in Iceland on the way to the UK.

Matt Wiser said: ↑
According to the Frenchmen, McAlister is one of the names they checked out. The body matches the passport pic....Seems the bodies the French TV guys found all got sucked out before impact-which explains why they're recognizable. Unless there's others, the others are all believed burned beyond recognition or are otherwise unrecognizable. They'll have to do full DNA on 'em to get the necessary IDs and check people off the wanted list.
Ah, good, so he's probably dead, we'll just need to get DNA to confirm it. I'm gonna be plenty happy to tell my two Raptor crews that. I imagine my family up in Seattle is gonna be happy to hear that animal is good and dead, too, as will the families of those who died in the amphib attempt. Red Andy can explain his misdeeds to God.

TheMann

DD951 said: ↑
'Red Andy' McAllister- I remember that bastard quite well. Long time obnoxious commie gadfly before the war, person of interest in the firebombing of Clark Hall (UW's ROTC building) in the 1960s (although not enough evidence to support charges), and general PITA. Once, back in early 1984, when I was earning a bit of extra cash by working part-time as a photographer for UW's student paper, I had to cover a speech he gave on campus- what an arrogant, crazy, and idiotic jackass- guy talked like he was a mixture of the SDS, Weathermen, and the SLA radicals of the 1960s, but not actually willing to get his hands dirty in practicing what he preached, and spouted conspiracy theories that made LaRouche sound halfway sane. The poor reporter who had to write the story ended up having to write several drafts before coming up with something that didn't look it belonged with the editorials or on the humor page.


I remember him from my days in Seattle, too. He was a maniac then, and truly believed most of the crap he spewed - and worse still, some others did too. One of them broke into my father's home shortly before the war broke out, saying he wanted to "teach a lesson to the defenders of capitalist exploitation." Dad was there at the time, and he put a load of 12-gauge buckshot through his lower leg with his Remington 870. The police never gave my dad any grief for it either, though I figure the fact that both of his kids were fighter pilots probably had something to do with it. Red Andy's sister also got away after the amphib stunt, but legend has it that her attempt to get away got "interfered with" by some guys north of Seattle, because her car was found in Bellingham, and no sign of her ever turned up in Vancouver or Mexico, like she dropped off the face of the Earth.

DD951 said: ↑
Anyway, we were kind of surprised when he turned out to be heavily involved in recruiting and operating auxiliary forces and terrorist cells, as we didn't think he had the balls or the brains to pull that off at the time.


Yeah, I was surprised to hear that too when Dad let know about it. We all thought he was a stupid loudmouth with an attitude problem and seriously warped ideology. When we heard that his merry band of lunatics tried to help the Soviets land in Seattle, and killed a bunch of Seattle PD and Washington state troopers in the process, that changed. Most of his guys got chewed up by the Washington NG, though. Serves him right.

DD951 said: ↑
Some of the groups involved at Pt. Roberts as well as that terrorist cell responsible for bombing those schools and hospitals which I helped prosecute that I mentioned a couple months ago were among his handiwork. He was one of those who disappeared after Vancouver was retaken from the Soviets, and thought to have been killed in the fighting but ended up finding their way into the ratline to Mexico; otherwise he would have been near the top of the FBI's 10 Most Wanted List for operations designed to kill lots of children and hospital patients that he set up. In retrospect, his apparent insanity was a good cover story, and a lot of us wondered if he wasn't one of those KGB deep penetration sleeper agents with orders to facilitate civil unrest, terrorism, acts of sabotage, assist Spetznaz, and set up arms caches in the event of war between the US & the USSR. Well, good riddance to the SOB, and at least the taxpayers won't have to foot the bill to have him tried & hanged.


Yeah, I imagine it'll be nice when news of his demise makes it to Seatown, they'll probably be good and happy to know he's dead. I knew of his work in the bombing at Seattle Children's Hospital. That stunt more than anything him in, because after that any of his supporters who were not insane didn't want to be associated with blowing up a Children's Hospital. (I do also remember my father telling me that after that attack, the local authorities all put him on the shoot to kill list, at least for a while, and that the guys at the plant in Renton where he was working named four B-52s on the line after four of the kids who died there, which the AF for all the obvious reasons did not object to.) I just wish somebody had been able to look into his eyes and ask him if he was proud of what he had done before he died. But, he's gone now, and as I said, he can explain his misdeeds to God.

DD951 said: ↑
Well, it's pretty hard to find any sort of decent single malt scotch for a reasonable price here- a bottle of Laphroaig 10 yr. is $165 before state taxes kick in (you don't want to know what sort of bidding war goes on in the rare event anything older or higher quality reaches the stores), and even the mass market blended stuff is pretty pricey- a fifth of Johnny Walker Black Label retails for about $80. (OOC- the most expensive item I saw in a state liquor store a couple years ago was a 750-ml bottle of Johnny Walker Blue Label for $210, liquor taxes included, that bottle of the Black Label is about $50 IRL, IIRC.) Bourbon and Canadian whiskey just aren't the same....
When I was last in Britain, I got my hands on a bottle of Johnnie Walker Gold Label, the REALLY good stuff. I got it for that RAF guy who saved my neck over Arkansas back in the war, and I remember how much that cost me - I won't say how much, but you can probably make educated guesses. Worth it, however, for the guys who may well have made sure I'm still here. Good Single malts are always expensive, but usually its worth the money. I wish somebody could figure how to make that stuff here - I know from experience that the climate in Scotland is not terribly different from Western Washington or the Oregon Coast......

TheMann

Pyro said: ↑
Though there were no shortage of commie sympathizers and traitors, there were also quite a few Marxists opposed to the invasion, notably Prof. Richard Bergsom who you might remember for his book "Behind the Iron Curtain: An Inside Look at the Fall of the Soviet Empire". He used to be with the History Department at UBC, and about as red as one gets but he condemned the invasion as "counterproductive to the revolution". When the Soviets wanted his cooperation, he refused so they shot his wife point-blank in the head in from of him and his young daughter. He spent most of the war in a prison camp but by war's end he dedicated himself to exposing the sham that was the Soviet Union.

As for Bergsom, while he does have some Marxist sympathies, he no longer believes in revolution of anykind and instead helped found the Social Democratic Party of Canada from the remnants of the NDP and some dissenting Liberals. But I will never what he told Peter Mansbridge in an interview when asked out his past as a red: "the cost of revolution in innocent blood is too high and the only purpose of communism is to demean the individual and to justify avarice in the name of the people."
I met Bergsom several years after the war when I was home on R&R, I ran into him while I was visiting UW and he was there as a guest of the Dean of the school of Social Sciences. Him and I wound up chatting for some time, and he was working on his books at the time. I dodn't know that then, but I do know that he insisted on buying me lunch at a local bistro. I asked him if he still believed in the economic system the Soviets proposed, and his reply was an emphatic no, the Soviet system had totally come apart in his eyes. He's not a total capitalist, but his opinion is that the capitalist system should be kept in check by some government. His comment was that "some government is needed to ensure freedom." I also know he wrote that in the preface to Behind the Iron Curtain.

He also told me about his wife being shot in the face in front of his daughter, and he commented after that "Every time I have that awful image come into my mind, I am more glad guys like you are out there, Major." I told him that I am a USAF officer, not a Canadian Forces one, and so he should thank the guys of the Air Command. He responded saying "Every blow struck to them accelerated their demise, so I can still thank you." I had known he was an ex-Red, but I think he's like my cousin-in-law to be, who is an ex-EPW, both saw the failings of communism very clearly and now do not believe in it at all.

Wolfman

TheMann said: ↑
Red Andy's sister also got away after the amphib stunt, but legend has it that her attempt to get away got "interfered with" by some guys north of Seattle, because her car was found in Bellingham, and no sign of her ever turned up in Vancouver or Mexico, like she dropped off the face of the Earth.
I wonder what happened to her... here's hoping she's slaving away in some Arab Sheik's harem...

JimmyRibbitt

DD951 said: ↑
As has this senior Assistant US Attorney, to the Bureau, US Marshall Service, & the Secret Service, and a few contacts of my own within the intelligence community.
How are you going to make sure you have his real location? One's IP address can be desguised through the use of proxies and anonymity services, many of which keep no logs. he could be, say, in Mexico, but be using a proxy on the other side of the world.

It is becuase of this that tracing this leftie may be easier said than done.

JimmyRibbitt

Pah. Catch me if you can, lackey.

You can use things like proxies and anonymity services to hide your real location, but there are hackers like myself who are working on tracing you down. You will be found, sooner or later.

Wolfman

JimmyRibbitt said: ↑
You can use things like proxies and anonymity services to hide your real location, but there are hackers like myself who are working on tracing you down. You will be found, sooner or later.
When you find this leftie moron, let me know so I can send a strike mission his way.

Panzerfaust 150

I doubt it will be that dramatic Wolfman.

Something along the lines of some flashbangs...shattering glass, a couple of gunshots if he gets real stupid and if he survives, having his hooded and ziptied self tossed head first into the back of a black helo or SUV. His next experience will be coming to on the floor of a holding cell in Federal lockup....with some FBI agents waiting to ask him whether or not he's a stupid kid with some silly ideas to be left to rant and rave to the uncaring masses, or does he really mean to do harm?

My bet, just so you know? The former, natural selection and stupidity has weeded out the ranks of the latter some twenty years on.

Wolfman

Aww, damn! I haven't gotten to blow anything up for going on three weeks now... nobody's been stupid enough to light off anything that we can legally bomb.

Pyro

Matt Wiser said: ↑
Hey Pryo, did he ever say how he obtained those documents?
Bergsom never told us how he got the documents or from whom. Likely for the same reason Kalugin's in hiding. In any case, it's still a good thing he acquired them because the civilian side of the USSR during the war is sadly overlooked. The brutality of the Politburo against its own people and the populace is quite chilling.

TheMann

Wolfman said: ↑
I wonder what happened to her... here's hoping she's slaving away in some Arab Sheik's harem...
Not betting on that......it would be nice, but I figure she's probably been in the ground (or at the bottom of Puget Sound) for 20 years plus. No great loss if you ask me.

TheMann

Well, it appears that the war in Mexico is over. The PDLP has asked for a ceasefire and has ordered its troops to put down their guns. 'Bout fucking time, if you ask me.

Matt Wiser

Yep, they were on CNN and the other networks, asking for a cease-fire. How'd we find out? On the way back to LeMay from finishing off that armored division, and we expended everything we took up: Mavericks and CBUs, with Weasel Vipers riding shotgun. Came back and found everyone in a party mood. AWACS didn't tell us, as they wanted us to keep focused on the flight back to LeMay. We got to the Sheraton's Bar after the debrief, and the CNN crew was reporting the cease-fire from Mexico City. The PLDP has agreed to settle the questions of reparations, remaining individuals on the various "wanted" lists, and will return three downed aircrew from recent days via the Red Cross tomorrow. But the current security zone will remain under U.S. control for the time being. They haven't surrendered unconditionally, far from it, and the various rebel groups vow to keep fighting until the PLDP's gone.

Hey Panzerfaust, did Colonel Moreau get in touch with you? She has some interesting stories about EASTERN EXPRESS, but the Moscow mission is still classified. On one of the flights, they were so low over Siberia that they landed at Loring AFB in Maine with pine needles in parts of the airplane. That was the one where they destroyed the Hydro Plant at the Bratsk Dam; and her first as aircraft commander. She's still a good friend of Col. Allision Whitney, the Baron 55 copilot, and on their flights over China, wondered if her friend was still alive down there. Colonel Moreau was at Hickam AFB in Hawaii to meet the crew when they flew back (via JAL-U.S. commercial flights were still few and far between in those early postwar days-but they did fly first class-before getting on a AF C-20 Gulfstream for the trip to the Mainland).

When this cease-fire settles in, the reservists (like us in the 419th) need to be the first to redeploy to home stations. Can't wait for the orders to fly back to Hill. Hopefully, that'll be later in the week. Ah well, until then, we get our "hazardous duty" pay, and since the shooting started, combat pay as well. Too bad it's not tax-free....

They have Maxim in the gift shop in the lobby at the Sheraton, and guess what-they had some pics of Kelly Ann Ray during the movie shoot in Puerto Rico. They had a couple of off days during the shoot, and she was on the beach. Kelly Ann came in and I showed the magazine to her, as I was slightly annoyed. She was furious: someone with a telephoto lens snapped the pics, she thinks. It was a rather tasteless headline, something like "Former POW now beach babe." Kelly Ann wants to go out and blow something (and someone) up right now.

Nikephoros

Not sure what to do with myself. Since I got my college degree a few years ago, people keep wanting to make me an officer.

Just got fired the other day from work. Apparently I wasn't "Harsh enough to leftists". Yeah, whatever.
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TheMann

Nikephoros said: ↑
Not sure what to do with myself. Since I got my college degree a few years ago, people keep wanting to make me an officer.

Just got fired the other day from work. Apparently I wasn't "Harsh enough to leftists". Yeah, whatever.
What's your degree in, Nike?

Nikephoros

TheMann said: ↑
What's your degree in, Nike?
OOC: I don't even know what college degrees there are. Never been to college.

TheMann

Matt Wiser said: ↑
They have Maxim in the gift shop in the lobby at the Sheraton, and guess what-they had some pics of Kelly Ann Ray during the movie shoot in Puerto Rico. They had a couple of off days during the shoot, and she was on the beach. Kelly Ann came in and I showed the magazine to her, as I was slightly annoyed. She was furious: someone with a telephoto lens snapped the pics, she thinks. It was a rather tasteless headline, something like "Former POW now beach babe." Kelly Ann wants to go out and blow something (and someone) up right now.
In just my very humble opinion, Kelly Ann is more than a little attractive, but yeah some douche with a telephoto lens is getting a little stupid. And yeah, I'd want to drop a bomb on his car right about then, too. Preferably a 2000lb LGB, just to make him shit himself......

thepenguin

Matt Wiser said: ↑
Yep, they were on CNN and the other networks, asking for a cease-fire. How'd we find out? On the way back to LeMay from finishing off that armored division, and we expended everything we took up: Mavericks and CBUs, with Weasel Vipers riding shotgun. Came back and found everyone in a party mood. AWACS didn't tell us, as they wanted us to keep focused on the flight back to LeMay. We got to the Sheraton's Bar after the debrief, and the CNN crew was reporting the cease-fire from Mexico City. The PLDP has agreed to settle the questions of reparations, remaining individuals on the various "wanted" lists, and will return three downed aircrew from recent days via the Red Cross tomorrow. But the current security zone will remain under U.S. control for the time being. They haven't surrendered unconditionally, far from it, and the various rebel groups vow to keep fighting until the PLDP's gone.

Hey Panzerfaust, did Colonel Moreau get in touch with you? She has some interesting stories about EASTERN EXPRESS, but the Moscow mission is still classified. On one of the flights, they were so low over Siberia that they landed at Loring AFB in Maine with pine needles in parts of the airplane. That was the one where they destroyed the Hydro Plant at the Bratsk Dam; and her first as aircraft commander. She's still a good friend of Col. Allision Whitney, the Baron 55 copilot, and on their flights over China, wondered if her friend was still alive down there. Colonel Moreau was at Hickam AFB in Hawaii to meet the crew when they flew back (via JAL-U.S. commercial flights were still few and far between in those early postwar days-but they did fly first class-before getting on a AF C-20 Gulfstream for the trip to the Mainland).

When this cease-fire settles in, the reservists (like us in the 419th) need to be the first to redeploy to home stations. Can't wait for the orders to fly back to Hill. Hopefully, that'll be later in the week. Ah well, until then, we get our "hazardous duty" pay, and since the shooting started, combat pay as well. Too bad it's not tax-free....

They have Maxim in the gift shop in the lobby at the Sheraton, and guess what-they had some pics of Kelly Ann Ray during the movie shoot in Puerto Rico. They had a couple of off days during the shoot, and she was on the beach. Kelly Ann came in and I showed the magazine to her, as I was slightly annoyed. She was furious: someone with a telephoto lens snapped the pics, she thinks. It was a rather tasteless headline, something like "Former POW now beach babe." Kelly Ann wants to go out and blow something (and someone) up right now.
Set something up at the Luke range. Hell, detach a flight to Holloman and set something up at White Sands . I heard about it as I was climbing the ladder for a CAP. We decided to unload the weapons and do some flying.

Matt Wiser

We don't have any orders yet, though 10th Air Force said that as soon as the cease-fire is signed and the Mexican PLDP government starts doing what they're told, we'll get our orders to go home. But we don't have any flying tomorrow, which is good.

If that'd been Lisa in that spread, I'd be royally pissed. In any event, Kelly Ann is upset that the photographer got some shots of the scars she has on her back and arms. Mann, when you shook hands with her, you probably noticed the rope burns on her arms; Panzerfaust, too. But Lisa and the rest of the 366th had a good laugh when one of the 390th's pilots bought a copy and showed it off. I do agree, Kelly Ann does look good in a Bikini. (I've seen her at the Sheraton's pool)

Anyone hear of anything more advanced found in Mexico other than the expected leftovers? (i.e. advanced anti-tank missiles like the AT-14, SAMs such as the SA-15, T-90s-the updated T-72, etc?) Those would've been a huge surprise.

Nikephoros

Matt Wiser said: ↑
Anyone hear of anything more advanced found in Mexico other than the expected leftovers? (i.e. advanced anti-tank missiles like the AT-14, SAMs such as the SA-15, T-90s-the updated T-72, etc?) Those would've been a huge surprise.
Was recently looking at worldsecurity.com's forums. The rumours flying around there (but consider the source) are talking about T-90s and Mig-31s. Not convinced myself, but something to consider.

[lordroel]

From page 103

TheMann

I heard a few rumors of MiG-31s too, but I never saw any and none of my guys have said anything about it.

Matt Wiser

Location:Auberry, CA
Haven't heard of anything more advanced than the MiG-23, but then again, we're on the West Coast, and the main threat from the Mexicans' POV was the Rio Grande and the Gulf Coast.

Hey Mann, did you notice Kelly Ann's rope burns on her wrist when you shook hands? That's what happened when the Cubans trussed her up North Viet style-with nylon rope that cut nearly to the bone. She says it's a miracle she doesn't have nerve or tendon damage from that. One of the upcoming trials in Miami will involve some of the torturers, and while Kelly Ann's been looking forward to the day, reliving what those....animals did to her in front of a military tribunal jury isn't something she's looking forward to.

thepenguin

The most advanced thing I've seen (and shot down) were Flankers. Other than that, just the standard (if you can call it that) Fishbeds and Floggers. I know I launched at Gadflys and Guidelines, (and Shilkas) but other than that, the most advanced SAM I know that anybody's seen is the SA-12 and SA-13, and those were seen by Mann's F-16s. (We Viper drivers talk to each other .)

Matt Wiser

SA-12s? Those had to have been leftovers from the invasion. A few batteries did make it before the Navy finally closed off the shipping lanes between Cuba and Mexico, but they never showed up on our threat boards during the war. And they sure weren't on our threat boards this time. Most advanced stuff we came across in our F-15Es were SA-8s and a few (and I mean few) SA-11s. The Flankers had to have been left behind when the Russians left after the Armistice-did they appear in decent shape? My senior Intel Officer isn't happy at hearing that news-it means someone higher than him screwed up-again.

Penguin, did the Maxim issue hit the stands in Alamogordo yet? Kelly Ann is not a happy camper at the moment, and now the entire Air Force gets to see her in a bikini. If we ever find the photographer, he's getting a low-level pass guaranteed to blast out every window in his house-and shatter his car windows, too.

TheMann

Matt Wiser said: ↑
Haven't heard of anything more advanced than the MiG-23, but then again, we're on the West Coast, and the main threat from the Mexicans' POV was the Rio Grande and the Gulf Coast.
I saw that Foxbat and once eyeballed a Fulcrum, but that's it. Most of what we saw were -21s and -23s, plenty of both kinds. And we were flying right through the Viper's nest, so I think its safe to say we had the varsity against us. I didn't see any Flankers, but even those against an F-22 are mincemeat, especially with AWACS around.

Matt Wiser said: ↑
Hey Mann, did you notice Kelly Ann's rope burns on her wrist when you shook hands? That's what happened when the Cubans trussed her up North Viet style-with nylon rope that cut nearly to the bone. She says it's a miracle she doesn't have nerve or tendon damage from that. One of the upcoming trials in Miami will involve some of the torturers, and while Kelly Ann's been looking forward to the day, reliving what those....animals did to her in front of a military tribunal jury isn't something she's looking forward to.
I did notice that, and I had figured it was a POW torture tactic - it's something I had seen before back during the war, especially in that little run-in between those civilian vigilantes and the KGB clowns with the wet dicks in Lawrence. I can't say I like remembering what I saw there, but those animals got what they had coming to them, too. I didn't ask her about it, of course, but I was wondering how badly that damaged her hands. Obviously not enough to stop her flying a F-15E, though.

TheMann

thepenguin said: ↑
The most advanced thing I've seen (and shot down) were Flankers. Other than that, just the standard (if you can call it that) Fishbeds and Floggers. I know I launched at Gadflys and Guidelines, (and Shilkas) but other than that, the most advanced SAM I know that anybody's seen is the SA-12 and SA-13, and those were seen by Mann's F-16s. (We Viper drivers talk to each other .)
Yeah, one of my Viper drivers got the shit scared out of him from one of those SA-12s, and he immediately called in the Wild Weasels on it. The staff guy on the base didn't want to send it out without additional confirmation, a fact which I took his head off for. The Weasel F-16s handled that problem, thank you very much. I knew of SA-11s - AWACS warned my F-111 crews of those when we were going into Mexico City early on - but I didn't know of the SA-12 until that one shot at my Viper driver. SA-13s have short ranges, so I didn't have to worry too much about those.

Panzerfaust 150

Location:Washington DC...We HAD a football team, now it's a
Tell Kelly Ann she ought to sue...invasion of privacy...it's not like she's a celeb...and it was probably some celeb those slime were stalking. As for Col. Moreau, yeah, she called and we spoke for a while, she's trying to convince Col. Whitney to come with, but she's USAFR now, and her day job for the Forest Service dive bombing forest fires has her a bit busy these days as they're gearing up for the fire season.

Wolfman

TheMann said: ↑
In just my very humble opinion, Kelly Ann is more than a little attractive, but yeah some douche with a telephoto lens is getting a little stupid. And yeah, I'd want to drop a bomb on his car right about then, too. Preferably a 2000lb LGB, just to make him shit himself......
I'll do ya one better and put the bomb through his bedroom window! Ahh, I just love the Intruder...

TheMann

Wolfman said: ↑
I'll do ya one better and put the bomb through his bedroom window! Ahh, I just love the Intruder...
Hey, I can do that with the Raptor, too. I just figured we'd want to make sure he's alive......

thepenguin

Matt Wiser said: ↑
SA-12s? Those had to have been leftovers from the invasion. A few batteries did make it before the Navy finally closed off the shipping lanes between Cuba and Mexico, but they never showed up on our threat boards during the war. And they sure weren't on our threat boards this time. Most advanced stuff we came across in our F-15Es were SA-8s and a few (and I mean few) SA-11s. The Flankers had to have been left behind when the Russians left after the Armistice-did they appear in decent shape? My senior Intel Officer isn't happy at hearing that news-it means someone higher than him screwed up-again.

Penguin, did the Maxim issue hit the stands in Alamogordo yet? Kelly Ann is not a happy camper at the moment, and now the entire Air Force gets to see her in a bikini. If we ever find the photographer, he's getting a low-level pass guaranteed to blast out every window in his house-and shatter his car windows, too.
Yeah, it hit the stands at the Holloman BX. Nobody's bought one though, the news got here fast through the grapevine. As for the Flankers, couldn't really tell you, I only saw them on radar.

Wolfman

TheMann said: ↑
Hey, I can do that with the Raptor, too. I just figured we'd want to make sure he's alive......
His front porch some night with an iron bomb, perhaps?

Matt Wiser

I told Kelly Ann today to start looking for a lawyer when we get back to Hill, and she's already doing searches on her laptop. The slime who took the pics was probably going after the cast of the movie when he took the photos, and only later realized who he'd gotten on film. Kelly Ann also got an e-mail from her live-in boyfriend back in Pocatello; the magazine is on sale there, and though she's not on the cover, it's selling well. At least the Sheriff isn't angry (she's a deputy in civilian life) and if that photographer shows up in Pocatello, well....they'll run him in for a busted headlight or something like that.

So Colonel Whitney's a reservist now. When did that happen? Because last I heard, she was running the 97th BW at Eaker (Blytheville) AFB down in Arkansas. Hope she's flying a good tanker like the P-3 or L-100-50 (civilian C-130J variant), because some of those old tankers have had a habit of their wings falling off.

Well, it seems the PLDP is living up to some of what it's promising; the three downed aircrew (two men and one woman) were handed over to the Red Cross, and they were flown to Kelly AFB in San Antonio and taken to the Aerospace Medical Center at Brooks AFB to get checked out. They've also let us know where certain lefties still in hiding can be located, and I imagine SOF (SEALs, Army SF, Rangers, etc.) are going after them right now. But no word yet on reparations, though that's an area where there's no choice: pay up or else.

DD951

JimmyRibbitt said: ↑
How are you going to make sure you have his real location? One's IP address can be desguised through the use of proxies and anonymity services, many of which keep no logs. he could be, say, in Mexico, but be using a proxy on the other side of the world.

It is becuase of this that tracing this leftie may be easier said than done.
The people'd who be doing this would be the ones tracing the IP address from the forum to wherever, and note that I did mention 'intelligence agencies'- happen to have a couple old shipmates & a NROTC classmate who are now with the NSA, and although the specifics would be getting into finger-breaking territory and beyond, they have some really interesting tricks for that sort of stuff (which has helped in a number of prosecutions, in sanitized form), probably beyond anything most hackers have tried, and bleeding-edge mainframes to run it on. If you've created some sort of electronic presence, and the government's interested enough, Uncle Sam can & will find you, wherever you are. Most lefties wanted for stuff they pulled back in the day, if they're on the grid at all (many aren't), are very tight-lipped when it comes to that subject or anything political- after all, that story about the 'Echelon' program that broke a few years ago only blew the secrecy of a few of the things in the toolbox available to the alphabet-soup agencies.

DD951

TheMann said: ↑
(...) Red Andy's sister also got away after the amphib stunt, but legend has it that her attempt to get away got "interfered with" by some guys north of Seattle, because her car was found in Bellingham, and no sign of her ever turned up in Vancouver or Mexico, like she dropped off the face of the Earth.
Wolfman said: ↑
I wonder what happened to her... here's hoping she's slaving away in some Arab Sheik's harem...
Actually, that's possibly been solved- must have been some sort of bureaucratic snafu in getting the relevant lists updated. Anyways, if any of you recall Gary Ridgeway, a.k.a. the Green River Killer (from where he dumped a lot of his victims before & after the war), that serial killer who got caught a few years ago and cut a deal, one of the murders he confessed to was this sister.

Although what happened between her bugging out of Seattle & when she ran into Ridgeway is a bit of conjecture, she apparently split from some of her accomplices & headed towards Canada alone. While she was stopping for gas in Mountlake Terrace, Ridgeway came up to her, thought she was a prostitute, and somehow talked her into giving him a ride. Somewhere near Mt. Vernon, he pulled a gun on her, forced her to drive off the road to a secluded spot, and once there, to get out of the car, whereupon he strangled her after having his way. Ridgeway dumped the body in Puget Sound near Deception Pass, and took the car to Bellingham (had buisness there) where he ditched it in a McDonalds parking lot (detail not released to the public before then).

Shortly afterwards, he was called back to active duty (did a hitch as an Army helo driver in the 1970s, and he was called back for that particular skill set, not his other nor his civilian job- something to do with autobody work), and is a person of interest in a few murders that took place in BC during the war.

After the war, he went back to his old ways, and eluded police for another 10 years before getting caught. Because of all the unsolved disappearences and murders he was a suspect in, the King County Prosecutor made a controversial decision to spare the death penalty if he pled guilty and confessed as to all his victims and where he dumped them. Although Ridgeway didn't mention the sister's name, he did confess to a victim matching the description at the right time, and knew enough about the dumping of the car to class her as one of his victims, although the body was never recovered nor was there conclusive physical evidence from the car linking him to it. Thus the sister was probably the victim of a notorious serial killer, although without a body, or physical evidence, it can't be classified as definite.

Matt Wiser

So a wanted leftie wound up the victim of a very notorious serial killer? I doubt those B.C. murders will be solved, as the evidence is probably thin at best, and then there's the usual behind-the-lines mess: garbage dumps, unit junkyards, etc., so there'd be ample space to conceal his handiwork. One thing about wartime, at least in Phoenix and Tuscon (don't know much about other places until PRAIRIE FIRE got rolling), there was very little street crime-plenty of cops around, not to mention military police, and even criminals with misdemeanor records joined up (and more than a few of 'em got killed-one could say they atoned for their misdeeds...). I remember a story in USA Today from mid '86, after the failed ComBloc Spring-Summer offensive, where a bunch of cons at a prison in either Virginia or West Virginia offered to join the service if they were promised three things: 1) they could serve in the same unit, 2) if killed, they got a proper military funeral, and 3) if they survived the war, they'd get a presidential pardon. The warden said "They've been watching The Dirty Dozen way too much." They had another motive: their average sentence was 70 years, and this was probably their only way out of the slammer. But there was one guy who got broken out of a prison in Texas early on in the invasion, got to Arizona, and back then in the early days the Army wasn't too choosy about who got in. Anyway, he joined under an alias, and served for three years until he got wounded during LONG RIFLE. It wasn't until '92 that his real ID was found out, but the guy's buddies testified to his ability as a soldier, and his good behavior, that the Governor of Texas issued a full pardon. He had been doing 40 years for armed robbery when the war started. There was an NBC movie about this guy-he lives in SoCal now, running a "Private Military/Security Business" according to the Newsweek piece on him. He does a lot of government business for the agencies that 951 mentioned, the piece went on to say.

Hey 951, are the prosecutors up there torn between wishing their guy had been caught so that he'd wind up in the dock (and then on the gallows) or are they glad that an F-22 jockey saved them a lot of work? I imagine some other U.S. Attorneys and their JAG counterparts also have such mixed feelings.

There was a crew from Inside Edition here, and they were looking for Kelly Ann. LeMay AFB's security police wouldn't let them on base, and they're supposedly lurking around La Paz, trying to find the military hangouts and get her on camera for an interview. When we're at the Sheraton, a lot of angry pilots and WSOs from the 419th are on the lookout-so we can give her some early warning. We take care of our own in this wing, so any one who's looking for her had better look out. A black eye here, a broken nose there, smashed camera...leave our Ops Officer alone, guys. You have been warned.

DD951

Matt Wiser said: ↑
So a wanted leftie wound up the victim of a very notorious serial killer? I doubt those B.C. murders will be solved, as the evidence is probably thin at best, and then there's the usual behind-the-lines mess: garbage dumps, unit junkyards, etc., so there'd be ample space to conceal his handiwork. One thing about wartime, at least in Phoenix and Tuscon (don't know much about other places until PRAIRIE FIRE got rolling), there was very little street crime-plenty of cops around, not to mention military police, and even criminals with misdemeanor records joined up (and more than a few of 'em got killed-one could say they atoned for their misdeeds...). I remember a story in USA Today from mid '86, after the failed ComBloc Spring-Summer offensive, where a bunch of cons at a prison in either Virginia or West Virginia offered to join the service if they were promised three things: 1) they could serve in the same unit, 2) if killed, they got a proper military funeral, and 3) if they survived the war, they'd get a presidential pardon. The warden said "They've been watching The Dirty Dozen way too much." They had another motive: their average sentence was 70 years, and this was probably their only way out of the slammer. But there was one guy who got broken out of a prison in Texas early on in the invasion, got to Arizona, and back then in the early days the Army wasn't too choosy about who got in. Anyway, he joined under an alias, and served for three years until he got wounded during LONG RIFLE. It wasn't until '92 that his real ID was found out, but the guy's buddies testified to his ability as a soldier, and his good behavior, that the Governor of Texas issued a full pardon. He had been doing 40 years for armed robbery when the war started. There was an NBC movie about this guy-he lives in SoCal now, running a "Private Military/Security Business" according to the Newsweek piece on him. He does a lot of government business for the agencies that 951 mentioned, the piece went on to say.
IIRC, Ridgeway confessed to a couple of them, while from stuff he's said and reconstructing his movements, it's likely he did some of the other BC murders, although between the utter chaos there during the war, and a psycho of their own (that pig farmer, whatever his name was), it's unlikely anything can be proven to any sort of a legal standard.

Hey 951, are the prosecutors up there torn between wishing their guy had been caught so that he'd wind up in the dock (and then on the gallows) or are they glad that an F-22 jockey saved them a lot of work? I imagine some other U.S. Attorneys and their JAG counterparts also have such mixed feelings.
Yeah, they are- from what I've heard around the office, it's about a 50/50 split on that subject.

There was a crew from Inside Edition here, and they were looking for Kelly Ann. LeMay AFB's security police wouldn't let them on base, and they're supposedly lurking around La Paz, trying to find the military hangouts and get her on camera for an interview. When we're at the Sheraton, a lot of angry pilots and WSOs from the 419th are on the lookout-so we can give her some early warning. We take care of our own in this wing, so any one who's looking for her had better look out. A black eye here, a broken nose there, smashed camera...leave our Ops Officer alone, guys. You have been warned.
Paparazzi- ugh, although I'd bet that a lot of the Hollywood types are probably secretly envious of your people for having a chance to act out upon what's got to be a fantasy of theirs, pounding on the vultures who harass them and their buddies....

Matt Wiser

One thing to keep in mind, though: it's the ones who haven't been caught....and a set of remains from the war years-especially in a former combat zone-isn't going to get much in the way of attention. They'll likely be classed as "unknown casualty of war" and given a proper burial. The ones who haven't been caught are the ones who give FBI agents sleepless nights.

Sheriff Lori Sheppard had the same mixed feelings-she wanted to kill the "auxiliary" people who killed her parents and brother-and the informer-herself, but was pleased that the job was done for her-during the war and immediately afterwards. She e-mailed me today with an update on the legal fight over the tail section of my first F-4: seems the U.S. District Court judge granted the injunction from the AF Academy, and the Wings Over the Rockies Air Museum in Denver has appealed to the 10th Circut. They'd like to have me in Walsenberg (along with Kevin Richardson-my old WSO) for the unveiling of the museum exhibit with one of the engines, our ejection seats, and some other parts, duties permitting, in June.

Being an accidental celeb is bad enough, I'd say. Being a Hollywood type with cameras in your face almost everywhere you go is something else. The La Paz cops have told us that if we do beat up the camera crew, they'll look the other way (some celebs do vacation here in the winter, and they've had numerous run-ins with the vermin known as paparazzi), just as long as the injuries are minor. At least they can't get on the base-which is still on a wartime security alert level. Now we've got one more reason for the cease-fire to be signed and the Reserves sent home.

TheMann

Matt Wiser said: ↑
So a wanted leftie wound up the victim of a very notorious serial killer? I doubt those B.C. murders will be solved, as the evidence is probably thin at best, and then there's the usual behind-the-lines mess: garbage dumps, unit junkyards, etc., so there'd be ample space to conceal his handiwork. One thing about wartime, at least in Phoenix and Tuscon (don't know much about other places until PRAIRIE FIRE got rolling), there was very little street crime-plenty of cops around, not to mention military police, and even criminals with misdemeanor records joined up (and more than a few of 'em got killed-one could say they atoned for their misdeeds...). I remember a story in USA Today from mid '86, after the failed ComBloc Spring-Summer offensive, where a bunch of cons at a prison in either Virginia or West Virginia offered to join the service if they were promised three things: 1) they could serve in the same unit, 2) if killed, they got a proper military funeral, and 3) if they survived the war, they'd get a presidential pardon. The warden said "They've been watching The Dirty Dozen way too much." They had another motive: their average sentence was 70 years, and this was probably their only way out of the slammer. But there was one guy who got broken out of a prison in Texas early on in the invasion, got to Arizona, and back then in the early days the Army wasn't too choosy about who got in. Anyway, he joined under an alias, and served for three years until he got wounded during LONG RIFLE. It wasn't until '92 that his real ID was found out, but the guy's buddies testified to his ability as a soldier, and his good behavior, that the Governor of Texas issued a full pardon. He had been doing 40 years for armed robbery when the war started. There was an NBC movie about this guy-he lives in SoCal now, running a "Private Military/Security Business" according to the Newsweek piece on him. He does a lot of government business for the agencies that 951 mentioned, the piece went on to say.
Hey, how many of those Hells Angels lunatics had records? I gotta imagine they were not all model citizens, but the Soviets genuinely feared them by the end of the war. Hell, many of us fighter jockeys were both awed and scared of them. I'm sure some of the guys who had more mild convictions might have been allowed, though I can see why the Army would probably not want those guys from Virginia there. I know many of the guys at Attica and Marion made similar offers to authorities, offering to fight in exchange for pardons when the war was over. I doubt many were accepted though, for all the obvious reasons.

As for Red Andy's sister, well, I guess all I can say on that one is that she's gone. I would honestly have preferred to find out that a cop shot her or something along those lines, but as long as she's not gonna be causing any more trouble for anybody I'm not gonna complain much.

Matt Wiser said: ↑
Hey 951, are the prosecutors up there torn between wishing their guy had been caught so that he'd wind up in the dock (and then on the gallows) or are they glad that an F-22 jockey saved them a lot of work? I imagine some other U.S. Attorneys and their JAG counterparts also have such mixed feelings.
I know that one of the JAG guys I know had such mixed feelings. He's another Seattle guy like me, and he was genuinely happy to find out that one of my F-22 guys had killed Red Andy. I suspect there will be more than a few open cases closed from that one. I suspect that he'll have a medal to show for blasting that many of the traitors, and I've already put that pilot up for a promotion.

Matt Wiser said: ↑
There was a crew from Inside Edition here, and they were looking for Kelly Ann. LeMay AFB's security police wouldn't let them on base, and they're supposedly lurking around La Paz, trying to find the military hangouts and get her on camera for an interview. When we're at the Sheraton, a lot of angry pilots and WSOs from the 419th are on the lookout-so we can give her some early warning. We take care of our own in this wing, so any one who's looking for her had better look out. A black eye here, a broken nose there, smashed camera...leave our Ops Officer alone, guys. You have been warned.
Yeah, those God-damned vultures have been over here, too. One of these guys, from Esquire magazine, found out about my and Major Ray's chat down in Miami and decided to pay me a visit, wanting to know details about her and her service. I told him to get lost. He didn't back off, however, and I told him that I wasn't gonna tell him anything, and that I'd knock a few of his teeth out if he attempted to make any trouble for my people. His comment to that was "Major Ray isn't one of your people, is she?" to which I responded "I'm a general officer. ALL of the men and women in the Air Force are my people." The AF Security Police also told this clown to beat it before somebody made him regret it. I'm pretty sure he's still lurking around Goodfellow, though. Us military guys are a breed of our own, aren't we?

TheMann

DD951 said: ↑
Paparazzi- ugh, although I'd bet that a lot of the Hollywood types are probably secretly envious of your people for having a chance to act out upon what's got to be a fantasy of theirs, pounding on the vultures who harass them and their buddies....
I'd say it's a little different between us and them. Some of the Hollywood types are drawn to publicity like flies to shit. Most of us Air Force and Navy guys (and our brothers in the Army, Marines and Coast Guard too, I suspect) tend to avoid publicity, because many of these Hollywood types are just a useless pain in the ass most of the time. We all appreciate respect for what we all have been through, don't get me wrong, but these tabloid types are just dicks most of the time. That clown snapping shots of Major Ray with the telephoto lens is the worst - I'd like to toss that loser's camera down the intake of my F-22, but on the other hand I wouldn't want to wreck a good F119 engine that way. An SDB through the windshield of his car would work nicely too, but that would probably get me in trouble with the High Command, so that one will remain just a fantasy too....

Panzerfaust 150

Matt Wiser said: ↑
So Colonel Whitney's a reservist now. When did that happen? Because last I heard, she was running the 97th BW at Eaker (Blytheville) AFB down in Arkansas. Hope she's flying a good tanker like the P-3 or L-100-50 (civilian C-130J variant), because some of those old tankers have had a habit of their wings falling off.
About 18-20 months ago..she got married oh, about three-four years back and decided she wanted a family and not to move around so much...but considering she's doing fire tanking, one wonders how much she considers "a lot". There was also a rumor that she's been trying to get out of '52s since coming back from China...something about getting the shakes every time she's on a '52s flight deck. I can't say I blame her.

[lordroel]

From page 104

Wolfman


TheMann said: ↑

Hey, how many of those Hells Angels lunatics had records? I gotta imagine they were not all model citizens, but the Soviets genuinely feared them by the end of the war. Hell, many of us fighter jockeys were both awed and scared of them. I'm sure some of the guys who had more mild convictions might have been allowed, though I can see why the Army would probably not want those guys from Virginia there. I know many of the guys at Attica and Marion made similar offers to authorities, offering to fight in exchange for pardons when the war was over. I doubt many were accepted though, for all the obvious reasons.



As for Red Andy's sister, well, I guess all I can say on that one is that she's gone. I would honestly have preferred to find out that a cop shot her or something along those lines, but as long as she's not gonna be causing any more trouble for anybody I'm not gonna complain much.


I know that one of the JAG guys I know had such mixed feelings. He's another Seattle guy like me, and he was genuinely happy to find out that one of my F-22 guys had killed Red Andy. I suspect there will be more than a few open cases closed from that one. I suspect that he'll have a medal to show for blasting that many of the traitors, and I've already put that pilot up for a promotion.


Yeah, those God-damned vultures have been over here, too. One of these guys, from Esquire magazine, found out about my and Major Ray's chat down in Miami and decided to pay me a visit, wanting to know details about her and her service. I told him to get lost. He didn't back off, however, and I told him that I wasn't gonna tell him anything, and that I'd knock a few of his teeth out if he attempted to make any trouble for my people. His comment to that was "Major Ray isn't one of your people, is she?" to which I responded "I'm a general officer. ALL of the men and women in the Air Force are my people." The AF Security Police also told this clown to beat it before somebody made him regret it. I'm pretty sure he's still lurking around Goodfellow, though. Us military guys are a breed of our own, aren't we?

If they show up around San Lucas, they're gonna get a beating, no ifs, ands, or buts about it, and the local cops say they'd look the other way.


MNP


I learned how to speak Russian, Comrades.


TheMann


Panzerfaust 150 said: ↑

About 18-20 months ago..she got married oh, about three-four years back and decided she wanted a family and not to move around so much...but considering she's doing fire tanking, one wonders how much she considers "a lot". There was also a rumor that she's been trying to get out of '52s since coming back from China...something about getting the shakes every time she's on a '52s flight deck. I can't say I blame her.

Has she tried switching to a B-1 or B-2 wing? I know the Lancer wings in particular prefer people who have experience in the BUFF, and a decorated veteran would probably be able, if she went back to full time service, to get a spot in the Spirit bomb wing.


thepenguin


Hey Matt, you guys doing any flying or are y'all just sitting around the base? We've been doing low-level stuff at White Sands and some exercises with the resident German Tornado unit at Holloman since the PDLP (or another combination thereof) called the cease-fire.


Panzerfaust 150


Location:Washington DC...We HAD a football team, now it's a

TheMann said: ↑

Has she tried switching to a B-1 or B-2 wing? I know the Lancer wings in particular prefer people who have experience in the BUFF, and a decorated veteran would probably be able, if she went back to full time service, to get a spot in the Spirit bomb wing.

I think that she did, but something about being too senior or some such...I'm just a AF Civilian, so I don't know ALL the details. Then again, from what I read in the book about Baron 55...I think the mental scars run deep. Especially when they ran into that column of flash-burned and blinded kids wandering the countryside early on..and that one three year old who died in her arms...kid was screaming in Chinese for her dead mom...and all they could do is nothing...their own supplies were limited...and this kid needed the services of a burn unit and antibiotics...hell, all the kids did.



We all saw stuff like that. Wonder if those tabloid slime would like to hear about that? Or about how Kelly Ann got those scars? Or about how I see Khvostov's victims in my dreams sometimes...used to be nightly. Or my wife sees her crew get cut down after bailing out of their crippled M1, and she had to crawl and stagger half a mile with a several cracked ribs and a bruised heart to get help. We all have stories we don't want to think about..ones that make us pray that the politicians figure out something we soldiers already know; War isn't a whole hell lot of fun. We had a job to do..we did it. If asked, I'd do it again. But? I kinda wish young men would have to stop being asked, so they get the chance to be old like us.


Wolfman


Man, and I thought the Spetznaz attack on MCAS Cherry Point at the beginning of the War was bad... they went hog-wild in the nearby town of Havelock, murdering and burning and raping and all that, before they got on the base and blew up at least a half-dozen A-6E TRAM Intruders from 533 on the ramp along with four F-4N Phantoms and a dozen Skyhawks, not to mention the maintenance crews who were slaughtered like animals. They also blew up some hangers and attempted to blow up the control tower before they were finally stopped.


Matt Wiser


Wolfman: Actually, we've been doing some flying, and Kelly Ann (remember, she's a Lt.Col. now) has been on the schedule twice a day-she figures it's one way of leaving those scum-suckers behind. I personally think the photographer in PR was going for the cast, and found her instead. It didn't take much to put the AF officer he saw going to and from the set, the Public Relations handout for the movie, and the pic taken on the beach to figure out who she was. The pics showing the scars when her back's turned to the camera told enough. We're flying with the guys from LeMay and Lisa's 366th, doing DACT over the Gulf of California, and putting on an impromptou air show for the fishermen. Gotta keep your hand in, you know. The guys from Inside Edition, though, are still around-Kara was out on the town last night with some of her guys from the 390th and spotted them. They seem to be looking for anyone female in an AF uniform to talk to about Lt. Col. Ray, so Kara and two of her female pilots or WSOs ducked into the Hard Rock Cafe for a while.



Some of the Baron 55 stories are pretty harrowing. Civilians burned and blinded by nuke strikes, warlords going around and casually disposing of those who resisted "taxation", and so on. At least once, the pilot had to fly a An-2 for a while for a warlord to keep his men from, shall we say, "entertaining" themselves with then-Capt. Whitney. I've read the book, and the movie that's in preproduction will have to be toned down-even though it's a made-for-cable production. But there were a few (very few) good moments-especially the further south they went, where civilians were more welcoming, and the Chinese who still considered themselves loyal members of the PLA were very cooperative in getting the crew south. But for every good moment, there were a dozen bad ones, and a few that were worse.



Quite a few of the Hell's Angels had records, but the Army at the time wasn't being very choosy. Said it before, but where else but in the U.S. would you have a cavalry regiment raised from members of a motorcycle gang? And you could say that those with records redeemed themselves-their KIA and WIA list speaks for that-some were wounded more than once.



I'd like the tabloid scum to dig about what happened to Lori Sheppard's family, or that SAF "recreation center" found at D/FW airport after V Corps got there. All of us have similar stories.


TheMann


Panzerfaust 150 said: ↑

We all saw stuff like that. Wonder if those tabloid slime would like to hear about that? Or about how Kelly Ann got those scars? Or about how I see Khvostov's victims in my dreams sometimes...used to be nightly. Or my wife sees her crew get cut down after bailing out of their crippled M1, and she had to crawl and stagger half a mile with a several cracked ribs and a bruised heart to get help. We all have stories we don't want to think about..ones that make us pray that the politicians figure out something we soldiers already know; War isn't a whole hell lot of fun. We had a job to do..we did it. If asked, I'd do it again. But? I kinda wish young men would have to stop being asked, so they get the chance to be old like us.

Brother, you're preaching to the choir here. I can still smell the remains of Houston after the Siege, and I haven't forgotten beating down those wet-dicked KGB cocksuckers in Lawrence. I know many people who didn't come home, or ones like my friend Paul, who is in a wheelchair after bailing out of his SAM-damaged A-7. I remember being on the scene of a hospital blown up by that bastard Red Andy because they were treating injured troops there, along with hundreds of civilians. I know my cousin Andrea, who went out on USS Tripoli and died in the North Atlantic. And I remember all of the men and women of my squadrons and wing during the war who never got the chance to grow old. I survived being shot down three times, and I count myself highly lucky that I'm still walking this planet, let alone being a Brigadier General, able bodied and at 46 years of age still able to fly a fighter with the best of them.



Part of me hopes that this, my third war, is my last. I'll go again if I need to - but I'd much rather train hard and live well, much rather go out and kick Kelly Ann's ass at Red Flag than have to shoot down a twenty-something kid in a Mexican fighter because people who he may never have even heard of sent him out to die. (Major Ray is more of a challenge than any of the poor sonsabitches who I shot down over Mexico, too.) I hope that the politicans realize this. War is not fun, at all, and as much as flying fighters is one hell of an adrenaline rush, I do not like writing letters to a family who has lost a loved one, I hate even more telling them in person. I will not object to training for the rest of my career, even when the day comes when I have to hang up the helmet and just watch. And when that day comes, I'll still have my two-seat A-7D......


TheMann


thepenguin said: ↑

Hey Matt, you guys doing any flying or are y'all just sitting around the base? We've been doing low-level stuff at White Sands and some exercises with the resident German Tornado unit at Holloman since the PDLP (or another combination thereof) called the cease-fire.

A RAF Eurofighter wing showed at Goodfellow this morning. They were in transit to White Sands, but the locals had objections to them training here and the range there is pretty full right now, so they have been blasting around out here. The RAF guys love those Eurofighters, and I can see why. I'd like to take one for a spin, because in a dogfight I'd have a very hard time topping one. These are good pilots in badass planes, the sorta competition you want to have when you are training. Them and a Navy F-14 squadron has been around, too, and they know their business, too.



I was up once today to play against those RAF guys, and the dimwit who was hounding me about Kelly Ann is still around, trying to take pictures of everything. If I find myself in Esquire because of this clown, I'm gonna make sure to take the F-22 over the speed of sound about a hundred feet above his car, and see how he likes a massive headache and every piece of glass on his car being broken.


Matt Wiser


At least this time, I haven't had to write any letters. Neither has Lisa, nor our counterpart at LeMay. Believe me, that's the worst part of this job, and then meeting the family at the funeral or memorial service. Wrote enough letters in 1988-89 when I ran the 335th. The worst day I had in 335 was coming back from a mission south of Fort Worth during LONG RIFLE and finding out "Congratulations, Major, you're now Squadron CO." Those are words you don't want to hear as you climb down from your mount. I asked "What happened to the Boss?" And they told me he went down near Dallas and the WSO bailed out, but he didn't. I felt like throwing up on the ramp at Sheppard AFB (Wichita Falls) then and there. At least two days later, the resistance got the WSO to a pickup point and a Jolly Green picked him up, along with some wounded resistance people. Well, when my flying days are over with the AF, I've still got my F-4.


Wolfman


Matt Wiser said: ↑

Wolfman: Actually, we've been doing some flying, and Kelly Ann (remember, she's a Lt.Col. now) has been on the schedule twice a day-she figures it's one way of leaving those scum-suckers behind. I personally think the photographer in PR was going for the cast, and found her instead. It didn't take much to put the AF officer he saw going to and from the set, the Public Relations handout for the movie, and the pic taken on the beach to figure out who she was. The pics showing the scars when her back's turned to the camera told enough. We're flying with the guys from LeMay and Lisa's 366th, doing DACT over the Gulf of California, and putting on an impromptou air show for the fishermen. Gotta keep your hand in, you know. The guys from Inside Edition, though, are still around-Kara was out on the town last night with some of her guys from the 390th and spotted them. They seem to be looking for anyone female in an AF uniform to talk to about Lt. Col. Ray, so Kara and two of her female pilots or WSOs ducked into the Hard Rock Cafe for a while.



Some of the Baron 55 stories are pretty harrowing. Civilians burned and blinded by nuke strikes, warlords going around and casually disposing of those who resisted "taxation", and so on. At least once, the pilot had to fly a An-2 for a while for a warlord to keep his men from, shall we say, "entertaining" themselves with then-Capt. Whitney. I've read the book, and the movie that's in preproduction will have to be toned down-even though it's a made-for-cable production. But there were a few (very few) good moments-especially the further south they went, where civilians were more welcoming, and the Chinese who still considered themselves loyal members of the PLA were very cooperative in getting the crew south. But for every good moment, there were a dozen bad ones, and a few that were worse.



Quite a few of the Hell's Angels had records, but the Army at the time wasn't being very choosy. Said it before, but where else but in the U.S. would you have a cavalry regiment raised from members of a motorcycle gang? And you could say that those with records redeemed themselves-their KIA and WIA list speaks for that-some were wounded more than once.



I'd like the tabloid scum to dig about what happened to Lori Sheppard's family, or that SAF "recreation center" found at D/FW airport after V Corps got there. All of us have similar stories.

I trust Kara and my Marine B/N on exchange as her WSO get along like a house on fire?


TheMann


Yeah, I have to write two, the crew of that F-111 crew who didn't make it. I had to call the pilot's widow, only to find that she's seven months pregnant. I can't tell you how much that one hurt. The wing, however, has all made it clear that we WILL look after our own, and that includes the families and children of our friends who didn't make it back.



I did find out today that I'm gonna get the Medal of Honor, and so is Matt. I'm a little humbled by that, especially considering the fact that I was just doing my job during the war. Apparently, the fact that I was shot down three times and yet kept coming back, getting a new plane and returning to the fight was the clincher. I'll certainly take it, of course, but I have every intention of telling those who decide that this MoH belongs as much to the other fliers of the squadron as it does to me. There are 45 names on the list of guys who have been confirmed for the MoH, and a number of others who are still being considered - Kelly Ann Ray and my brother Derek are on that list. (Kelly deserves it, if you ask me. I'll reserve judgement on my brother - he is my brother after all, how can I be impartial?) I'll have to ask if I can wear it to my niece's wedding in a few months.


Wolfman


Meh, sinking that Kashin when that massive Russkie convoy got smacked in the Gulf netted me a Navy Cross.


TheMann


Wolfman said: ↑

Meh, sinking that Kashin when that massive Russkie convoy got smacked in the Gulf netted me a Navy Cross.

You're an A-6 driver, right? Which variant, and what carrier you flying from?


Matt Wiser


Kara and her Jarhead WSO get along fine, from what I hear. Just bear in mind that when you get him back, he'll be a little bit crazy. Remember that he's flying for a squadron CO who has a sign in the squadron office saying "You don't have to be crazy to fly with us, but it helps!" I don't know how many generals have looked at her and shaken their heads-she's not an Academy grad-and has more things to do than have her air and ground crew shine boots and polish equipment. Kara's never been a spit-and polish type, and neither has Lisa, her Wing CO-who also didn't go to the AF Academy.



So the MOH went through, and I'm honored. Though there's a lot more who deserve it, and they didn't come back. The only things I can think of that I did to deserve the award were the E&E, or a series of low-level strikes I led in the run-up to LONG RIFLE. Those were low-level (never above 500 feet AGL), high-speed runs, in and out fast before the ComBloc air defenses could react. Lost a couple of people to power lines, but we got things done. If Kelly Ann gets the award, she deserves it for simply surviving that ordeal, and she'd be the only POW held in Cuba to get it, assuming it goes through. Just coming back from those four years with mind intact and body somewhat intact would be enough justification for the award.



Did Colonel Whitney retire after her command tour with the 97th? If Colonel Moreau is right, she's from the Portland (OR) area, and there's an AF Reserve Wing flying HC-130s and HV-22s at Portland IAP, so she can still keep flying and do her airborne firefighting. (The Pacific NW is a fire-prone area, and she'd be pretty busy-ditto if she moved to my home state of California)



The 27th Marines ran across a photographer (freelance) who was stalking the beach-the Marines are still running patrols in La Paz and Cabo San Lucas until the i's are dotted and t's crossed on the cease-fire papers-and he was looking for Lt. Colonel Ray. The Marine Gunny leading the patrol told him to beat it, unless he wants to get a roughing-up from a lot of angry servicepeople. Kelly Ann isn't foolish enough to go on the public beaches, and the safest spot is the private beach the Sheraton has-it's not only guarded by private security, but with all the military in town, there's quite a few MPs and AF Combat Security Police around.


Wolfman


TheMann said: ↑

You're an A-6 driver, right? Which variant, and what carrier you flying from?

B/N (bombardier/navigator), actually. I was in a A-6E TRAM Intruder (this was before the A-6F Intruder II entered production) and was flying land-based at the time out of New Orleans NAS with VMA(AW)-533 Hawks.


Wolfman


Matt Wiser said: ↑

Kara and her Jarhead WSO get along fine, from what I hear. Just bear in mind that when you get him back, he'll be a little bit crazy. Remember that he's flying for a squadron CO who has a sign in the squadron office saying "You don't have to be crazy to fly with us, but it helps!" I don't know how many generals have looked at her and shaken their heads-she's not an Academy grad-and has more things to do than have her air and ground crew shine boots and polish equipment. Kara's never been a spit-and polish type, and neither has Lisa, her Wing CO-who also didn't go to the AF Academy.



The 27th Marines ran across a photographer (freelance) who was stalking the beach-the Marines are still running patrols in La Paz and Cabo San Lucas until the i's are dotted and t's crossed on the cease-fire papers-and he was looking for Lt. Colonel Ray. The Marine Gunny leading the patrol told him to beat it, unless he wants to get a roughing-up from a lot of angry servicepeople. Kelly Ann isn't foolish enough to go on the public beaches, and the safest spot is the private beach the Sheraton has-it's not only guarded by private security, but with all the military in town, there's quite a few MPs and AF Combat Security Police around.

I can live with it. As for the freelance photographer, did he heed the warning of the Gunny, or did he get a beating?


Matt Wiser


As long as you can live with it...anyway, the photographer took off after the Gunny told him to stay away from the beach-public and private. The La Paz PD and the U.S. Marshals (they were a territory, remember, until New Year's) are also watching for these slime. And only embedded reporters are allowed on or off base. Word has it that some of these sleazebags are throwing money around to try and get a picture of Colonel Ray. We've had an embedded reporter from the Salt Lake Tribune, and he says his less-than-reputable colleagues are nothing but persistent. He won't have anything to do with 'em, and neither does the AP photographer.



The PLDP turned over a few on the wanted list as "a goodwill gesture." Anyone see the footage on the news? Some of those handed over were kicking and screaming (literally), saying "Don't give us to the fascists" and "We were right in the 1980s". Oh, please. Try saying that in front of a jury-either in Federal Court or a Military tribunal and see how far that'll take you-in some cases, it'll be the gallows. Did anyone see any familiar faces? Panzerfaust or 951-anybody familiar?



The three returned prisoners are now at Brooks AFB's Aerospace Medical Center, getting medical checks and being debriefed. Word through channels is that their captivity was not as bad as it could've been, but it still wasn't up to Geneva standards. (What a surprise if it was) No presser or TV appearances until the debriefs and such are finished.


trekchu


Jesus sometimes I wish I was living near Philly. Arranging an accident where they are accidentally run over by my M1 would be easy.

Star Wars - The Skywalker Heresy Episode IV: Destiny of the Force (01/23/2017)


Nikephoros


Just found out the the bastards on the hill won't award my cousin the MoH.



For those who don't know, my cousin is Jessie Williams. He was a Navy SEAL who got captured during a failed raid on the Soviet positions in Vancouver. He was held in confinement and tortured for a total of eight months.



After weeks of planning, he staged an escape attempt on the camp. At great risk to self, he snuck back into the camp. Using his knowledge of the camp's defenses he blasted a hole in the fence under a guard tower. In the confusion, he rallied the POWs and attacked the remaining defenses. Out of ten towers, he personally took out seven. He then stayed behind to drag out a few of the less capable POWs.



He's an American hero dammit. They only wanna give him the DSC. That's an injustice.