Getting in earlier

[mcnutt]

What are the plausible ways the US could have gone to war, during World War II, earlier than it did? How early could the US have gotten involved?

[lordroel]

Dec 14, 2016 15:41:40 GMT mcnutt said:

What are the plausible ways the US could have gone to war, during World War II, earlier than it did? How early could the US have gotten involved?

The American people were still isolationist and to some extent anti-war in 1939, even if the Roosevelt administration wasn't.

Declaring war on Germany in 1939 could well have cost Roosevelt the election in 1940.

The American army at the time was small and ill-equipped.

The US had no treaty obligations to enter the war as Britain and France did.

[stevep]

Frankly you need a clear casus belli for either side. Which is rather difficult to see occuring given that neither side wanted war.

The most likely possibility would be some accidental clash at sea. Say one of the large German raiders, i.e. pocket battleships or twins classes, aware its being hunted by British ships fires on a warship it encounters in bad visibility and then finds its target is a US warship. Especially if say a US heavy cruiser was sunk with heavy loss of life. [Thinking that's about the largest ships that could be sunk barring a fluke in such a clash].

This would cause outrage in the US and might be enough to prompt war, even in 39.

As Lordroel said this might not make a massive difference before the fall of France as the US is very badly unprepared for war. However it would have an impact after this and might be a decisive factor in presuading France to fight on from N Africa and other colonies. You might then see US troops cutting their teeth in late 40/early 41 in operations to wrap up Libya in joint operations with British forces attacking from Egypt. [Although thinking about this all the allied forces might be attacking from the west since Tunisia is a better forward base that western Egypt and the centre of Italian strength in Tripoli is a lot closer.]

Steve

[doug181]

I think a naval event would be the most likely trigger. Roosevelt was basically ignoring neutrality.

[lordroel]

Dec 15, 2016 1:40:05 GMT doug181 said:

I think a naval event would be the most likely trigger. Roosevelt was basically ignoring neutrality.

You means something happening in the Atlantic.

[stevep]

Dec 15, 2016 3:45:53 GMT lordroel said:

Dec 15, 2016 1:40:05 GMT doug181 said:

I think a naval event would be the most likely trigger. Roosevelt was basically ignoring neutrality.

You means something happening in the Atlantic.

  Almost certainly in the Atlantic.  Japan is neither capable nor deperate enough to launch a major attack against the US before 1941 and if it did before the fall of France especially I suspect Hitler would welcome the US concentrating on the Pacific.

  Steve

[lordroel]

Dec 15, 2016 17:38:07 GMT stevep said:

Dec 15, 2016 3:45:53 GMT lordroel said:

You means something happening in the Atlantic.

  Almost certainly in the Atlantic.  Japan is neither capable nor deperate enough to launch a major attack against the US before 1941 and if it did before the fall of France especially I suspect Hitler would welcome the US concentrating on the Pacific.

  Steve

What about the Neutrality Patrol by the United States of their Atlantic coast, that was already the beginning of the United states into the conflict.

[stevep]

Dec 15, 2016 22:08:27 GMT lordroel said:

Dec 15, 2016 17:38:07 GMT stevep said:

  Almost certainly in the Atlantic.  Japan is neither capable nor deperate enough to launch a major attack against the US before 1941 and if it did before the fall of France especially I suspect Hitler would welcome the US concentrating on the Pacific.

  Steve

What about the Neutrality Patrol by the United States of their Atlantic coast, that was already the beginning of the United states into the conflict.

  That will cause tension and later there were clashes.  However, other than some conflict with a German surface raider, its unlikely to be significant in the submarine war until some time after the fall of France.  Before that Germany didn't have great access to the Atlantic and subs were strictly range restricted while the allies had a clear naval superiority and plenty of bases from which to operate against German forces in the Atlantic.  Not saying German subs didn't cause losses, as they did but without bases in France the Germans lacked the capacity to really threaten Britain's supply lines.