lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 5, 2020 4:01:52 GMT
East Prussia, April 13th-16th, 1941
The German forces in Poland and East Prussia were still relatively strong. Hitler was paranoid about the possibility of the Red Army moving west, so had made sure that the forces in the east were as strong as possible. Even in April of 1941, the Heer, SS, and Kriegsmarine had eight divisions in Poland and three in East Prussia. Token elements were transferred to the West, but the majority of the troops remained where they were. Hindsight has shown that Stalin had decided not to provoke the Allies and his armies stayed behind their borders, but Hitler did not know that.
Even with German military leaders begging for reinforcements, the Fuhrer remained obstinate until the beginning of April, when the Allies were tearing through central Germany. An attempt was made to move an infantry division from Poland to the west, but that was thwarted by air attacks that inflicted heavy casualties. Thus, the German troops in the East stayed put.
The Allies were beginning to get bogged down in and around Berlin by April 12th. Military leaders were concerned that reinforcements from Poland and East Prussia would come west (despite railways in that area being shut down by Allied air attacks). They were also nearly at the end of their supply lines due to the rapid advance. It was feared that German troops in the east could consolidate and make Allied efforts to push into Poland quite bloody. What could be done to tie down those troops when the Allies needed to take Berlin and reach the Oder River?
Luckily for the Allies, there were still troops available. The Canadian 8th Airmobile Division was an army-level formation under the control of the Canadian First Army, and had not seen any action at all. Their commander, a Major General from the NDHQ in Ottawa, was eager for his formation to see action. What could they do, though? The light brigades in the 8th Division lacked the same firepower as the mechanized and armoured brigades in the rest of the Canadian Army, and sending them into the same situations as everyone else was considered foolish. The Canadian government was very casualty-averse, which, while viewed with ridicule in Britain and France (who had taken about 300,000 casualties between them), was a major factor in Canada’s reluctance to send soldiers to die in needless operations.
Well, the commander of the 8th Division repeatedly lobbied the staff of the Canadian First Army to perform an airborne landing behind enemy lines. His reasoning was that a force inserted in the German rear area could distract the enemy forces and prevent them from reinforcing their units around Berlin. On the surface, the idea of a landing to distract the Germans around Berlin was readily accepted, but the Major General did not want this. He wanted to land in East Prussia. This idea was received with skepticism, but the 8th Division’s commander insisted that his units could tie down German forces and get in the area to deter the Red Army if it were to ever move west. Though uneasy, the commander of the First Canadian Army relented, a move which would be heavily criticized in the following years.
The 8th Division did not have anywhere near the aircraft required for a mass airmobile assault, so aircraft that dropped the 7th Airmobile Division into Denmark were borrowed. Operation KESTREL was launched on April 13th. It began with airstrikes around Konigsberg, Tilsit, and Friedland, followed by the landing of the 8th Division’s four brigades. The 27th Light Brigade arrived at Tilsit via helicopter, the 28th Airborne and 30th Light dropped in to the East and West of Konigsberg respectively, and the 30th Light Brigade at Heigenbiel. The idea was for the division to link up and form a line along the coast that could resist any German counterattacks. This plan relied on the aerial suppression of the German troops in the area to keep them occupied. It probably would have worked if four of the five RCAF attack squadrons assigned to help the 8th Division hadn’t been redirected to concentrate on the Berlin area; Allied troops there were not advancing as quickly as initially hoped. German troops had been bombed, yes, but not severely enough to completely hamper their combat effectiveness.
In addition to this, the airborne landing had followed the initial air attacks too late to achieve complete surprise. A crucial thirty-minute gap gave the Germans time to recover. While they had no clue that there would be paratroopers and a helicopter assault, they had time to collect themselves and form up into small units. Despite the operation’s shortcomings, all four brigades were able to land without too much trouble. Konigsberg was taken quickly, but the process of linking up would prove to be more difficult.
There were three German divisions in East Prussia- the 165th and 240th Infantry along with the 20th SS Division. The 240th had token elements in Konigsberg that were pushed out by the Canadians, but the 20th SS and 165th Infantry were in the Eastern and Western parts of the province respectively. This caused problems for some Canadian units; when the 27th Light Brigade-Group tried to move out of Tilsit, its path was blocked by elements of the 20th SS Division. Repeated Canadian attacks did not go very far, and the 27th Brigade took serious losses. 1st Battalion, The Middlesex and Huron Regiment took 200 casualties on the first day alone. The 27th Brigade was ordered by the commander of the 8th Division (who had set himself up in Konigsberg) to march west to link up with the rest of the paratroopers. The Colonel in charge of the 27th Brigade thought that this was ridiculous, but tried nonetheless. The SS wasn’t sitting idle, and moved around to try and flank 27CLBG.
View Attachment
Canadian officers and NCOs planning brigade-level movements in East Prussia.
Over in Heigenbiel, the 30th Brigade had managed to link up with the rest of the division and was digging in, ready to fight the Germans. Really, it was only the 27th Brigade that was facing significant resistance…for now, anyway. Hitler was outraged at the airborne landings, and the fact that the so-called “bastion of the Teutonic Order” was under threat infuriated him. He ordered that parts of the German forces in Poland move north to fight the Canadians. It was pointed out that this would denude Poland of German troops and limit potential reinforcement of other areas. Still what is done is done, and Operation KESTREL would face a difficult test while the Battle of Berlin raged.
Nice, a new update, great redrobin65. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Feb 5, 2020 16:41:38 GMT
East Prussia, April 13th-16th, 1941
The German forces in Poland and East Prussia were still relatively strong. Hitler was paranoid about the possibility of the Red Army moving west, so had made sure that the forces in the east were as strong as possible. Even in April of 1941, the Heer, SS, and Kriegsmarine had eight divisions in Poland and three in East Prussia. Token elements were transferred to the West, but the majority of the troops remained where they were. Hindsight has shown that Stalin had decided not to provoke the Allies and his armies stayed behind their borders, but Hitler did not know that.
Even with German military leaders begging for reinforcements, the Fuhrer remained obstinate until the beginning of April, when the Allies were tearing through central Germany. An attempt was made to move an infantry division from Poland to the west, but that was thwarted by air attacks that inflicted heavy casualties. Thus, the German troops in the East stayed put.
The Allies were beginning to get bogged down in and around Berlin by April 12th. Military leaders were concerned that reinforcements from Poland and East Prussia would come west (despite railways in that area being shut down by Allied air attacks). They were also nearly at the end of their supply lines due to the rapid advance. It was feared that German troops in the east could consolidate and make Allied efforts to push into Poland quite bloody. What could be done to tie down those troops when the Allies needed to take Berlin and reach the Oder River?
Luckily for the Allies, there were still troops available. The Canadian 8th Airmobile Division was an army-level formation under the control of the Canadian First Army, and had not seen any action at all. Their commander, a Major General from the NDHQ in Ottawa, was eager for his formation to see action. What could they do, though? The light brigades in the 8th Division lacked the same firepower as the mechanized and armoured brigades in the rest of the Canadian Army, and sending them into the same situations as everyone else was considered foolish. The Canadian government was very casualty-averse, which, while viewed with ridicule in Britain and France (who had taken about 300,000 casualties between them), was a major factor in Canada’s reluctance to send soldiers to die in needless operations.
Well, the commander of the 8th Division repeatedly lobbied the staff of the Canadian First Army to perform an airborne landing behind enemy lines. His reasoning was that a force inserted in the German rear area could distract the enemy forces and prevent them from reinforcing their units around Berlin. On the surface, the idea of a landing to distract the Germans around Berlin was readily accepted, but the Major General did not want this. He wanted to land in East Prussia. This idea was received with skepticism, but the 8th Division’s commander insisted that his units could tie down German forces and get in the area to deter the Red Army if it were to ever move west. Though uneasy, the commander of the First Canadian Army relented, a move which would be heavily criticized in the following years.
The 8th Division did not have anywhere near the aircraft required for a mass airmobile assault, so aircraft that dropped the 7th Airmobile Division into Denmark were borrowed. Operation KESTREL was launched on April 13th. It began with airstrikes around Konigsberg, Tilsit, and Friedland, followed by the landing of the 8th Division’s four brigades. The 27th Light Brigade arrived at Tilsit via helicopter, the 28th Airborne and 30th Light dropped in to the East and West of Konigsberg respectively, and the 30th Light Brigade at Heigenbiel. The idea was for the division to link up and form a line along the coast that could resist any German counterattacks. This plan relied on the aerial suppression of the German troops in the area to keep them occupied. It probably would have worked if four of the five RCAF attack squadrons assigned to help the 8th Division hadn’t been redirected to concentrate on the Berlin area; Allied troops there were not advancing as quickly as initially hoped. German troops had been bombed, yes, but not severely enough to completely hamper their combat effectiveness.
In addition to this, the airborne landing had followed the initial air attacks too late to achieve complete surprise. A crucial thirty-minute gap gave the Germans time to recover. While they had no clue that there would be paratroopers and a helicopter assault, they had time to collect themselves and form up into small units. Despite the operation’s shortcomings, all four brigades were able to land without too much trouble. Konigsberg was taken quickly, but the process of linking up would prove to be more difficult.
There were three German divisions in East Prussia- the 165th and 240th Infantry along with the 20th SS Division. The 240th had token elements in Konigsberg that were pushed out by the Canadians, but the 20th SS and 165th Infantry were in the Eastern and Western parts of the province respectively. This caused problems for some Canadian units; when the 27th Light Brigade-Group tried to move out of Tilsit, its path was blocked by elements of the 20th SS Division. Repeated Canadian attacks did not go very far, and the 27th Brigade took serious losses. 1st Battalion, The Middlesex and Huron Regiment took 200 casualties on the first day alone. The 27th Brigade was ordered by the commander of the 8th Division (who had set himself up in Konigsberg) to march west to link up with the rest of the paratroopers. The Colonel in charge of the 27th Brigade thought that this was ridiculous, but tried nonetheless. The SS wasn’t sitting idle, and moved around to try and flank 27CLBG.
Canadian officers and NCOs planning brigade-level movements in East Prussia.
Over in Heigenbiel, the 30th Brigade had managed to link up with the rest of the division and was digging in, ready to fight the Germans. Really, it was only the 27th Brigade that was facing significant resistance…for now, anyway. Hitler was outraged at the airborne landings, and the fact that the so-called “bastion of the Teutonic Order” was under threat infuriated him. He ordered that parts of the German forces in Poland move north to fight the Canadians. It was pointed out that this would denude Poland of German troops and limit potential reinforcement of other areas. Still what is done is done, and Operation KESTREL would face a difficult test while the Battle of Berlin raged.
Nice, a new update, great redrobin65 .
Agreed, great to see an update.
Its good for the west, if not for eastern Poland and the Baltic's that Stalin has decided not to enter the war in Europe. If he is serious about a clash with the Japanese then that could complicate matters there as how would western forces relate to both Soviet and Japanese forces when they run across them?
Sounds like the 8th Airmobile have put themselves in a very exposed position, especially the rather isolated 27th Brigade. It might ease things in the end as the Germans are going to be attacking and hence probably easier to defeat than if their dug into defencive positions. However could be very bloody for the 8th and for those sent to aid them.
Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 5, 2020 16:52:44 GMT
What does the Canadian 8th Airmobile Division have in helicopters ore aircraft redrobin65 |
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Post by redrobin65 on Feb 5, 2020 18:11:07 GMT
What does the Canadian 8th Airmobile Division have in helicopters ore aircraft redrobin65 Around 90 aircraft, most of which are Griffons (either purpose built or converted), but there are a few transport aircraft. There would be more, but some were redirected to other areas. Edit: most of the transports are CC-130s. There are also a few Chinooks as well. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 5, 2020 19:22:58 GMT
What does the Canadian 8th Airmobile Division have in helicopters ore aircraft redrobin65 Around 90 aircraft, most of which are Griffons (either purpose built or converted), but there are a few transport aircraft. There would be more, but some were redirected to other areas. Edit: most of the transports are CC-130s. There are also a few Chinooks as well. Are the Griffons armed with gun/rocket pods as they should be a good and cheap alternative to Cobras/Apache helicopters Canada did not oparate. |
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Post by redrobin65 on Feb 5, 2020 20:47:30 GMT
Around 90 aircraft, most of which are Griffons (either purpose built or converted), but there are a few transport aircraft. There would be more, but some were redirected to other areas. Edit: most of the transports are CC-130s. There are also a few Chinooks as well. Are the Griffons armed with gun/rocket pods as they should be a good and cheap alternative to Cobras/Apache helicopters Canada did not oparate. A few are, but most are the standard ones armed with crew-manned machine guns on the sides. Although, a few attack versions of the Griffons are serving elsewhere. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 6, 2020 4:42:27 GMT
Do all officers and soldiers of the Canadian 8th Airmobile Division where the Maroon beret made famous by the Parachute Regiment in OTL World War II. In OTL only Jump-qualified personnel in parachute units of the Canadian Army wear the maroon, provided they are in a designated parachute position. These are as follows:
Z Battery, 1st Regiment, Royal Canadian Horse Artillery
E and Y Batteries, 2nd Regiment, Royal Canadian Horse Artillery
5 Troop, 24 Field Squadron, 2 Combat Engineer Regiment
5 Troop, 53 Field Squadron, 5 Combat Engineer Regiment
M Company, 3rd Battalion, The Royal Canadian Regiment
B Company, 3rd Battalion, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry
A Company, 3rd Battalion, Royal 22e Régiment
Instructors, packer/riggers and jump-slotted members of the Canadian Army Advanced Warfare Centre at CFB Trenton
Parachute Company, The Queen's Own Rifles of Canada
Would these units i listed above be part of the 8th Airmobile Division.
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pyeknu
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Post by pyeknu on Feb 6, 2020 20:35:19 GMT
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 6, 2020 20:36:14 GMT
Thanks for the link pyeknu, forgot about you great Orbat, my bad. |
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James G
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Post by James G on Feb 7, 2020 15:27:52 GMT
redrobin65 sorry if I have missed it being mentioned before, but with Canada's position from the future, what becomes of patents for things not invented into the world which it has been thrown into? Has the Canadian Government claimed 'all ours, thanks'? I was thinking of this due to the issue with helicopters mentioned. Canada can build whatever it pleases, only held back by manufacturing capability.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 7, 2020 15:33:35 GMT
redrobin65 sorry if I have missed it being mentioned before, but with Canada's position from the future, what becomes of patents for things not invented into the world which it has been thrown into? Has the Canadian Government claimed 'all ours, thanks'? I was thinking of this due to the issue with helicopters mentioned. Canada can build whatever it pleases, only held back by manufacturing capability. My guess the fall to any branches of companies that are in Canada in they have none then i think the Canadian government will own them and most likely will auction them of to the highest bidder. |
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Post by redrobin65 on Feb 7, 2020 15:40:10 GMT
redrobin65 sorry if I have missed it being mentioned before, but with Canada's position from the future, what becomes of patents for things not invented into the world which it has been thrown into? Has the Canadian Government claimed 'all ours, thanks'? I was thinking of this due to the issue with helicopters mentioned. Canada can build whatever it pleases, only held back by manufacturing capability. The government has claimed lots of patents from the mid 60s to the 2010s without too much trouble, but is running into problems with patents from the 40s to the late 50s. In many cases, other companies are throwing legal challenges to the claiming of inventions from the 40s such as colour TV. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 7, 2020 15:42:33 GMT
redrobin65 sorry if I have missed it being mentioned before, but with Canada's position from the future, what becomes of patents for things not invented into the world which it has been thrown into? Has the Canadian Government claimed 'all ours, thanks'? I was thinking of this due to the issue with helicopters mentioned. Canada can build whatever it pleases, only held back by manufacturing capability. The government has claimed lots of patents from the mid 60s to the 2010s without too much trouble, but is running into problems with patents from the 40s to the late 50s. In many cases, other companies are throwing legal challenges to the claiming of inventions from the 40s such as colour TV. So could , as a example Ford from old America claim ownership of any patents that might be in modern Canada. |
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Post by redrobin65 on Feb 7, 2020 15:47:41 GMT
The government has claimed lots of patents from the mid 60s to the 2010s without too much trouble, but is running into problems with patents from the 40s to the late 50s. In many cases, other companies are throwing legal challenges to the claiming of inventions from the 40s such as colour TV. So could , as a example Ford from old America claim ownership of any patents that might be in modern Canada. They could try with 40s-50s designs, but modern vehicles would give them more trouble. A good lawyer could probably argue that 1940 Ford weren't the ones to come up with, say, a V6 engine from 2014. Then again, Ford Canada has separate shareholders than its US version, and someone could try to split hairs and argue that they are a separate company. I will say that I'm not an expert on patent law though. |
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James G
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Post by James G on Feb 7, 2020 16:40:06 GMT
So could , as a example Ford from old America claim ownership of any patents that might be in modern Canada. I'm not an expert on patent law though. You can bet there will be experts though, raking it in with costly legal cases. An ISOT: a lawyers dream. |
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