Soviet/NATO invasion and nuclear targets across the world thread

[stevep]

Mar 21, 2018 16:44:20 GMT lordroel said:

Mar 21, 2018 16:41:44 GMT stevep said:

Interesting that the big multi-megaton strike is down at Maastricht rather than a big port or one of the capitals? Although possibly it was important for other reasons? Looks like the best place to be for survival would be somewhere in the north.

To answer your question, in 1969, Maastricht was the home of the Joint Operations Command for the Second Allied Tactical Airforce and the Northern Army Group, both of which would have been instrumental in defending against a Soviet incursion into West Germany (or coordinating a NATO incursion into East Germany).

  OK thanks.  That would explain it.

  Ironically Venlo is most famous to me because in a book published in the early 80's, which I've probably still got somewhere that's were the Soviet push in a World War III story was finally stopped.  Had to google it but it was by General Sir John Winthrop Hackett, written in 1982 and called "The Third World War: The Untold Story."  Possibly more famous for the nuclear exchange that saw Birmingham and Minsk attacked before the Soviets conceded the war.

[lordroel]

Mar 21, 2018 16:53:58 GMT stevep said:

Mar 21, 2018 16:44:20 GMT lordroel said:

To answer your question, in 1969, Maastricht was the home of the Joint Operations Command for the Second Allied Tactical Airforce and the Northern Army Group, both of which would have been instrumental in defending against a Soviet incursion into West Germany (or coordinating a NATO incursion into East Germany).

  OK thanks.  That would explain it.

  Ironically Venlo is most famous to me because in a book published in the early 80's, which I've probably still got somewhere that's were the Soviet push in a World War III story was finally stopped.  Had to google it but it was by General Sir John Winthrop Hackett, written in 1982 and called "The Third World War: The Untold Story."  Possibly more famous for the nuclear exchange that saw Birmingham and Minsk attacked before the Soviets conceded the war.

Well i always try to get my hands on the book by John Winthrop Hackett but so far not been able to get my hands on it.

Other Soviet strikes near Venlo would be the bridge over the Maas near the town of Well and RAF Bruggen wich is located in Germany but close to the Netherlands city of Roermond.

[lordroel]

Mar 21, 2018 16:45:14 GMT stevep said:

James, Dan

That's interesting as I'm a Crowlander by birth, about 9 miles to the north, although I've lived on the Hampshire/Berkshire border for the last ~38 years. Always keep an eye out for how Posh are doing football wise.

Steve

Here is another nice map i found.

This is a a map of the United Kinfdom which shows you the blast radius should any of our major cities be attacked with nuclear weapons.

[stevep]

I think I really need to get that force shield system working, especially with Trump and Putin both in power.

[lordroel]

Mar 21, 2018 17:18:15 GMT stevep said:

I think I really need to get that force shield system working, especially with Trump and Putin both in power.

You always could move to Scotland, both the 1970s and 1980s map have it clear of Soviet strikes.

[stevep]

Mar 21, 2018 17:02:40 GMT lordroel said:

Mar 21, 2018 16:53:58 GMT stevep said:

  OK thanks.  That would explain it.

  Ironically Venlo is most famous to me because in a book published in the early 80's, which I've probably still got somewhere that's were the Soviet push in a World War III story was finally stopped.  Had to google it but it was by General Sir John Winthrop Hackett, written in 1982 and called "The Third World War: The Untold Story."  Possibly more famous for the nuclear exchange that saw Birmingham and Minsk attacked before the Soviets conceded the war.

Well i always try to get my hands on the book by John Winthrop Hackett but so far not been able to get my hands on it.

Other Soviet strikes near Venlo would be the bridge over the Maas near the town of Well and RAF Bruggen wich is located in Germany but close to the Netherlands city of Roermond.

  I got it when it 1st came out and he did a 2nd volume a couple of years later which looked at events elsewhere in the world and a bit more about the break-up of the Soviet empire in the follow-up to the nuclear exchange.  Which seemed rather less realistic.  IIRC it was that 2nd book that was called "the untold story" so the google link I got the above from could be inaccurate. 

  Probably still have the books somewhere as I'm a compulsive hoarder although can't remember having seen it for decades. 

  Did a quick search on Amazon and they mention "The Third World War but date it to 1978/79 so the original may have come out then and the sequel, "the untold story" isn't mentioned at all although I know that existed.  Also pretty certain that the nuclear exchange was mentioned in the 1st book although probably a lot more detail in the 2nd but its been so long I could be wrong.

[James G]

I've read them both. They are like Clancy's Red Storm Rising, especially the second one called the Untold Story.
Venlo is in the first I believe as that is where the Soviets are stopped. They cross the Rhine north of the Ruhr and charge south hoping to trap much of NATOs armies east of the Rhine. There between the Ruhr and the Maastrict area comes the final stop. There is a massive B-52 strike at low-level with high-explosive bombs on Soviet troops.
The books are good though dated somewhat now.
Clancy (RIP) wrote better works. Michael Palmer's The Third World War actually tells the story of a world war with only minor mentions of the slugfest in Germany. Red Army is another fantastic book... where the Soviets actually win!
These are the inspirations for much of what I write.

[lordroel]

Mar 21, 2018 17:42:39 GMT James G said:

I've read them both. They are like Clancy's Red Storm Rising, especially the second one called the Untold Story.
Venlo is in the first I believe as that is where the Soviets are stopped. They cross the Rhine north of the Ruhr and charge south hoping to trap much of NATOs armies east of the Rhine. There between the Ruhr and the Maastrict area comes the final stop. There is a massive B-52 strike at low-level with high-explosive bombs on Soviet troops.
The books are good though dated somewhat now.
Clancy (RIP) wrote better works. Michael Palmer's The Third World War actually tells the story of a world war with only minor mentions of the slugfest in Germany. Red Army is another fantastic book... where the Soviets actually win!
These are the inspirations for much of what I write.

I have two books by John Wingate called Carrier and Frigate, its describes a week of gruelling raids and attacks involving choppers, sea harriers and the aircraft-carrier 'Furious', culminating in World War III.

[lordroel]

Here are two maps about possible Soviet invasion routs into West Europe and their nuclear targets.

Map I


Map II 

[James G]

Love the maps! Fantastic displays showing just how terrible it thankfully never was.

[lordroel]

Mar 21, 2018 19:36:31 GMT James G said:

Love the maps! Fantastic displays showing just how terrible it thankfully never was.

Like them also, but poor, poor Denmark, only a population of just under five million at the time, but the plan shown below sees parachute forces be dropped in the middle of Sjælland and then move north towards the capital, Copenhagen, and west towards the major cities of the coastal Store Bælt. Signatures shows that nuclear bombs were to be dropped on the Stevns Fort (on the east coast of Sjælland, in the middle of the photo), as well as on the towns of Køge (south of Copenhagen), Holbæk and Copenhagen.

[James G]

Interesting way of dealing with those coastal forts. I've read before how well protected they were and their commanding positions. Nothing beats a nuke though. To open up the Baltic Exits to shipping, a war plan would have to deal with mines, fast attack boats with missiles and land based & truck-launched Harpoon antiship missiles though. Plus a heck of a lot of NATO tactical air power... THEN the Royal Navy!

[lordroel]

Mar 22, 2018 9:41:06 GMT James G said:

Interesting way of dealing with those coastal forts. I've read before how well protected they were and their commanding positions. Nothing beats a nuke though. To open up the Baltic Exits to shipping, a war plan would have to deal with mines, fast attack boats with missiles and land based & truck-launched Harpoon antiship missiles though. Plus a heck of a lot of NATO tactical air power... THEN the Royal Navy!

Here is another thing i found, sorry for the small picture.

The planned attack on Denmark was for a long time structured around the same premise: primarily Polish but also DDR forces would form the advance guard in an attack on Jutland. An attack on Sjælland would be implemented primarily by Polish forces supported by DDR and (later) other Soviet forces. This simplified sketch from the beginning of the 1960s shows two nuclear bombs being dropped on the Danish cities of Roskilde (near the capital Copenhagen) and Esbjerg (on the west coast of Jutland). In the event of war, NATO reinforcements would supplement the Danish forces via Esbjerg. It was expected that these two nuclear bombs dropped in the first days of the war would put a stop to Danish resistance. If this was not the case, the Warsaw Pact plan in the following days was to drop a large number of tactical nuclear bombs all over Denmark, on Jutland between 27 and 52 bombs on the first day and between 16 and 32 on the second. Such an attack would cause incalculable damage to the civilian population. It is a wonder how the invaders themselves imagined they would avoid nuclear irradiation (probably something between an unrealistic belief that they would be protected from exposure and a lack of respect for their own soldiers’ lives). The ship symbol indicates a landing on Sjælland.

[stevep]

Mar 21, 2018 17:19:33 GMT lordroel said:

Mar 21, 2018 17:18:15 GMT stevep said:

I think I really need to get that force shield system working, especially with Trump and Putin both in power.

You always could move to Scotland, both the 1970s and 1980s map have it clear of Soviet strikes.

  Don't try telling any Scots that Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Inverness aren't Scottish.  At least not without without ambulance staff in attendance.   That's what's shown on your last map and on the 1970 map of Scotland there are quite a number of targets listed. - You may have been mislead by your initial maps don't show more than the border areas?

  Plus, even if there were no attacks on Scotland, apart from any fall-out problems the new Scottish government might insist on any refugees taking up Scottish citizenship! - Just in case anyone is unclear that is a joke.  I do have Scottish friends, although I'm avoiding talking to them after the last rugby international.

[stevep]

Mar 21, 2018 17:42:39 GMT James G said:

I've read them both. They are like Clancy's Red Storm Rising, especially the second one called the Untold Story.
Venlo is in the first I believe as that is where the Soviets are stopped. They cross the Rhine north of the Ruhr and charge south hoping to trap much of NATOs armies east of the Rhine. There between the Ruhr and the Maastrict area comes the final stop. There is a massive B-52 strike at low-level with high-explosive bombs on Soviet troops.
The books are good though dated somewhat now.
Clancy (RIP) wrote better works. Michael Palmer's The Third World War actually tells the story of a world war with only minor mentions of the slugfest in Germany. Red Army is another fantastic book... where the Soviets actually win!
These are the inspirations for much of what I write.

  James

  Thanks.  That rings a few bells and glad I was right that the Venlo battle was in the 1st book. 

  Steve