Soviet/NATO invasion and nuclear targets across the world thread

[gillan1220]

I hope I am not too late for this thread. I have seen nuclear war movies such as The Day After and By Dawn's Early Light and read famous online alternate history scenarios such as 1983: Doomsday and Protect & Survive. In these scenarios there is no doubt the Philippines would have been targeted. It was strategic ally of the U.S. and has major USN and USAF bases. The USN conducted ASW patrols in the waters around the Philippines. Soviet submarines and TU-95 bombers would sometimes cross the EEZ of the Philippines.

If a nuclear war went ahead, those U.S. bases would have been destroyed. It's up to the author whether the Soviets decide to nuke Manila and other cities as well.

I recently discussed about the Philippines during the Cold War in the defense forum. One of the OPs commented that back then in 2011, there were Yale University documents in the 1970s showing possible Soviet targets in the Philippines. The targets included the following:
- Manila - capital of the Philippines, headquarters of the AFP and the Philippine Constabulary/Integrated National Police, numerous other government agencies, has a major seaport and airport with adjoining Villamor Air Base (Nichols Field) for the Philippine Air Force.
- Baguio City - a major city in Benguet, site of the Philippine Military Academy, and is near to Camp John Hay, a major USAF base
- Clark Air Base, Pampanga - the largest USAF base in the Far East. For some time the largest deployment of the U.S. Pacific Air Forces which included F-104s, F-16s, F-15s, and F-4s
- Sangley Point, Cavite - another USAF base until 1971 when it was transferred to the Philippine Air Force. Directly guards Manila Bay and was home to Philippine Air Force Trojan attack planes
- Subic Naval Base, Zambales - the largest naval base in the Far East next to Yokosuka. There was usually a USN carrier here present, along with some subs, destroyers, destroyer escorts, amphibious assault ships, landing ship tanks, and AOE/AORs. It is the spring board for the USN for their South China Sea patrols. Adjancent to this was NAS Cubi Point, which houses the USN's P-2 Neptune and P-3 Orion ASW maritime patrol planes.
- Cebu City - second largest city of the Philippines. Has nearby Army Base, an PAF air base in Mactan Island which was transferred to the PAF in 1971 but can house SAC bombers in an event of a WWIII, and major seaport
- Davao City - the largest city in Mindanao. Has an airport capable of housing SAC bombers

[lordroel]

Jun 2, 2020 12:55:55 GMT gillan1220 said:

I hope I am not too late for this thread. I have seen nuclear war movies such as The Day After and By Dawn's Early Light and read famous online alternate history scenarios such as 1983: Doomsday and Protect & Survive. In these scenarios there is no doubt the Philippines would have been targeted. It was strategic ally of the U.S. and has major USN and USAF bases. The USN conducted ASW patrols in the waters around the Philippines. Soviet submarines and TU-95 bombers would sometimes cross the EEZ of the Philippines.

If a nuclear war went ahead, those U.S. bases would have been destroyed. It's up to the author whether the Soviets decide to nuke Manila and other cities as well.

I recently discussed about the Philippines during the Cold War in the defense forum. One of the OPs commented that back then in 2011, there were Yale University documents in the 1970s showing possible Soviet targets in the Philippines. The targets included the following:
- Manila - capital of the Philippines, headquarters of the AFP and the Philippine Constabulary/Integrated National Police, numerous other government agencies, has a major seaport and airport with adjoining Villamor Air Base (Nichols Field) for the Philippine Air Force.
- Baguio City - a major city in Benguet, site of the Philippine Military Academy, and is near to Camp John Hay, a major USAF base
- Clark Air Base, Pampanga - the largest USAF base in the Far East. For some time the largest deployment of the U.S. Pacific Air Forces which included F-104s, F-16s, F-15s, and F-4s
- Sangley Point, Cavite - another USAF base until 1971 when it was transferred to the Philippine Air Force. Directly guards Manila Bay and was home to Philippine Air Force Trojan attack planes
- Subic Naval Base, Zambales - the largest naval base in the Far East next to Yokosuka. There was usually a USN carrier here present, along with some subs, destroyers, destroyer escorts, amphibious assault ships, landing ship tanks, and AOE/AORs. It is the spring board for the USN for their South China Sea patrols. Adjancent to this was NAS Cubi Point, which houses the USN's P-2 Neptune and P-3 Orion ASW maritime patrol planes.
- Cebu City - second largest city of the Philippines. Has nearby Army Base, an PAF air base in Mactan Island which was transferred to the PAF in 1971 but can house SAC bombers in an event of a WWIII, and major seaport
- Davao City - the largest city in Mindanao. Has an airport capable of housing SAC bombers

No problem gillan1220, this is interesting to see what the Soviet had as targets in the Philippines

[gillan1220]

Jun 2, 2020 14:16:54 GMT lordroel said:

Jun 2, 2020 12:55:55 GMT gillan1220 said:

I hope I am not too late for this thread. I have seen nuclear war movies such as The Day After and By Dawn's Early Light and read famous online alternate history scenarios such as 1983: Doomsday and Protect & Survive. In these scenarios there is no doubt the Philippines would have been targeted. It was strategic ally of the U.S. and has major USN and USAF bases. The USN conducted ASW patrols in the waters around the Philippines. Soviet submarines and TU-95 bombers would sometimes cross the EEZ of the Philippines.

If a nuclear war went ahead, those U.S. bases would have been destroyed. It's up to the author whether the Soviets decide to nuke Manila and other cities as well.

I recently discussed about the Philippines during the Cold War in the defense forum. One of the OPs commented that back then in 2011, there were Yale University documents in the 1970s showing possible Soviet targets in the Philippines. The targets included the following:
- Manila - capital of the Philippines, headquarters of the AFP and the Philippine Constabulary/Integrated National Police, numerous other government agencies, has a major seaport and airport with adjoining Villamor Air Base (Nichols Field) for the Philippine Air Force.
- Baguio City - a major city in Benguet, site of the Philippine Military Academy, and is near to Camp John Hay, a major USAF base
- Clark Air Base, Pampanga - the largest USAF base in the Far East. For some time the largest deployment of the U.S. Pacific Air Forces which included F-104s, F-16s, F-15s, and F-4s
- Sangley Point, Cavite - another USAF base until 1971 when it was transferred to the Philippine Air Force. Directly guards Manila Bay and was home to Philippine Air Force Trojan attack planes
- Subic Naval Base, Zambales - the largest naval base in the Far East next to Yokosuka. There was usually a USN carrier here present, along with some subs, destroyers, destroyer escorts, amphibious assault ships, landing ship tanks, and AOE/AORs. It is the spring board for the USN for their South China Sea patrols. Adjancent to this was NAS Cubi Point, which houses the USN's P-2 Neptune and P-3 Orion ASW maritime patrol planes.
- Cebu City - second largest city of the Philippines. Has nearby Army Base, an PAF air base in Mactan Island which was transferred to the PAF in 1971 but can house SAC bombers in an event of a WWIII, and major seaport
- Davao City - the largest city in Mindanao. Has an airport capable of housing SAC bombers

No problem gillan1220 , this is interesting to see what the Soviet had as targets in the Philippines

In 1983: Doomsday, the Soviets only targeted Clark, Subic, and Baguio. Manila and other cities were spared.

althistory.fandom.com/wiki/Doomsday_(1983%3A_Doomsday)#Philippines

[gillan1220]

Cody from The Alternate History Hub summarizes 1983: Doomsday and the probable targets around the world.

[gillan1220]

British Nuclear Weapons and Anglo-American Relations 1945-54

[ukron]

www.files.ethz.ch/isn/108642/warplan_dossier.pdf

Taking Lyon on the Ninth Day? The 1964 Warsaw Pact Plan for a Nuclear
War in Europe and Related Document

[ukron]

"The ambition to reach take Lyons on the 9th day of the conflict, as outlined in the 1964 plan, did not
appear overnight. Until the late 1950s, offensive operations of the ČSLA during exercises ended
around the 10th day of fighting no further west than the Nuremberg-Ingolstadt line.[9] These
exercise designs show that the so-called Prague-Saarland direction (Prague-NurembergSaarbrücken) was clearly favoured over the Alpine direction Brno-Vienna-Munich-Basel.[10]
With the aim of enhancing the mobility of the army and coming closer to the ambitions reflected in
the 1964 plan, the Czechoslovak military staff, upon order of the Soviet military headquarters,
began a relocation of military forces in 1958 which concentrated the maximum number of highly
mobile tank divisions in the western part of the country.[11] Also as one of the lessons of the
ongoing Berlin crisis, the military institutionalization of the Warsaw Pact led to the creation of
individual fronts. In this new framework, the CSLA was responsible for one entire front with its own
command and tasks set forth by the Soviet military headquarters.[12]
Before these organizational changes were implemented, they were already applied in military
exercises where the newly created fronts were to be synchronized. While the designs of the
exercises and the tasks of the participants cannot be considered an exact reflection of operational
planning, they show that the time to reach certain lines on the western battlefield had been
gradually shortened and that the depth reached by Czechoslovak troops had been enhanced. In
one of the first front exercises in 1960, the ČSLA was already supposed to operate on the Stuttgart
-Dachau line the 4th day. The operational front exercise of March 1961 went even further in
assuming that the Dijon-Lyon line would be reached on the 6th-7th day of operations. At the
operational front exercise in September 1961, the Czechoslovak front practised supporting an
offensive by the the front made up of Soviet and East German forces. In this framework the line
Bonn-Metz -Strasbourg was to be reached on the 7th and 8th day. An exercise conducted in
December 1961 gave the Czechoslovak front the task of reaching the Besancon-Belfort line on the
7th day of operations"

[lordroel]

Jul 23, 2020 13:47:25 GMT ukron said:

www.files.ethz.ch/isn/108642/warplan_dossier.pdf

Taking Lyon on the Ninth Day? The 1964 Warsaw Pact Plan for a Nuclear
War in Europe and Related Document

What is so special about taking Lyon.

[ukron]

Lyon cut in half France and was one the most important city in France with Paris and Marseille, by the way having control of Lyon means that you can led military offensive on Marseille and southern Burgundy.

[lordroel]

Jul 23, 2020 14:04:57 GMT ukron said:

Lyon cut in half France and was one the most important city in France with Paris and Marseille, by the way having control of Lyon means that you can led military offensive on Marseille and southern Burgundy.

So the goal of the Soviets was to cut France in two.

[ukron]

Actually i don't think such plan can really worked
, France was a nuclear armed force and it seems obvious that every attempt to cross Rhine will push French to use 1) tactical weapons (by late 70s and 80s), French Pluton and Hadès missiles used for a preemptive strike on Eastern Bloc Armies near the Rhine, such strike was a "warning" informing the Soviets that the French state is ready to use nuclear weapons to defend its territory. 2) French Strategic weapons including Mirage IV bomber, M1 and M2 missiles and SSBN are used.

[ukron]

(French Documentary about French Nuclear strategy during the cold war, in French and in English).

[lordroel]

Jul 23, 2020 14:14:28 GMT ukron said:

Actually i don't think such plan can really worked
, France was a nuclear armed force and it seems obvious that every attempt to cross Rhine will push French to use 1) tactical weapons (by late 70s and 80s), French Pluton and Hadès missiles used for a preemptive strike on Eastern Bloc Armies near the Rhine, such strike was a "warning" informing the Soviets that the French state is ready to use nuclear weapons to defend its territory. 2) French Strategic weapons including Mirage IV bomber, M1 and M2 missiles and SSBN are used.

You mean Force de dissuasion

[ukron]

or Force de Frappe

[gillan1220]

Jul 23, 2020 14:20:57 GMT ukron said:

or Force de Frappe

I want my Frappe with some force