Massoud lives?

[gillan1220]

I read the 9/11 Commission Report (yes it's a controversial book) and it explains that Al-Qaeda can trace its origins from the Soviet War in Afghanistan along with the Taliban.

[stevep]

Jul 2, 2020 2:50:29 GMT gillan1220 said:

I read the 9/11 Commission Report (yes it's a controversial book) and it explains that Al-Qaeda can trace its origins from the Soviet War in Afghanistan along with the Taliban.

  It might depend on what you define as origins.  As I think I've mentioned before I have read that bin-Laden was trying to get Afghans to murder westerns who were trying to help them against the Soviets and their allies.  As such he and his hate mentality were already in existence but the fighting in Afghanistan and the success of what was seen as an 'Islamic' resistance definitely boosted extreme groups. 

  In terms of Al-Qaeda's earlier actions wasn't there an earlier attempt at an attack on the Twin Towers in the 1990's with an attempted car bomb placed in the underground car park?

[gillan1220]

Jul 2, 2020 11:04:18 GMT stevep said:

Jul 2, 2020 2:50:29 GMT gillan1220 said:

I read the 9/11 Commission Report (yes it's a controversial book) and it explains that Al-Qaeda can trace its origins from the Soviet War in Afghanistan along with the Taliban.

  It might depend on what you define as origins.  As I think I've mentioned before I have read that bin-Laden was trying to get Afghans to murder westerns who were trying to help them against the Soviets and their allies.  As such he and his hate mentality were already in existence but the fighting in Afghanistan and the success of what was seen as an 'Islamic' resistance definitely boosted extreme groups. 

  In terms of Al-Qaeda's earlier actions wasn't there an earlier attempt at an attack on the Twin Towers in the 1990's with an attempted car bomb placed in the underground car park?

There was the 1993 World Trade Center bombings but it was not not committed by Al-Qaeda but other Jihadis.

[stevep]

Jul 2, 2020 12:48:54 GMT gillan1220 said:

Jul 2, 2020 11:04:18 GMT stevep said:

  It might depend on what you define as origins.  As I think I've mentioned before I have read that bin-Laden was trying to get Afghans to murder westerns who were trying to help them against the Soviets and their allies.  As such he and his hate mentality were already in existence but the fighting in Afghanistan and the success of what was seen as an 'Islamic' resistance definitely boosted extreme groups. 

  In terms of Al-Qaeda's earlier actions wasn't there an earlier attempt at an attack on the Twin Towers in the 1990's with an attempted car bomb placed in the underground car park?

There was the 1993 World Trade Center bombings but it was not not committed by Al-Qaeda but other Jihadis.

  OK thanks.  Either remembered it wrongly or possibly Al-Qaeda was wrongly blamed at the time.

[Deleted]

Jul 2, 2020 2:46:44 GMT lordroel said:

Going to give you a WARNING for this @vonhitchofen, conspiracy theories are not allowed on this forum

What if it's not a conspiracy theory, but has been mentioned in several BBC documentaries and a book?

Jul 2, 2020 2:46:44 GMT lordroel said:

Al-Qaeda does exist and many people lives have been effected by it, please do not say these things again, thank you.

Radical Islamists terrorists have murdered thousands of people not least at Nairobi, Dar-es-Salaam, the USS Cole 9/11, Bali, and huge numbers in Iraq, but the idea that there was some kind of massive terrorist organisation with bin Laden (or Zawahiri) at its head is false, and always was. The British Army found no trace of it in Afghanistan, once the Taliban was defeated. Where did it go? The Taliban however, and ISIS/ Da'esh' were the organisations many thought Al-qaida was.

I'm old enough to remember media coverage of the embassy bombings, and the USS Cole. Al-qaida wasn't ever mentioned.

[lordroel]

Jul 2, 2020 21:58:02 GMT @vonhitchofen said:

Jul 2, 2020 2:46:44 GMT lordroel said:

Going to give you a WARNING for this @vonhitchofen , conspiracy theories are not allowed on this forum

What if it's not a conspiracy theory, but has been mentioned in several BBC documentaries and a book?

Jul 2, 2020 2:46:44 GMT lordroel said:

Al-Qaeda does exist and many people lives have been effected by it, please do not say these things again, thank you.

Radical Islamists terrorists have murdered thousands of people not least at Nairobi, Dar-es-Salaam, the USS Cole 9/11, Bali, and huge numbers in Iraq, but the idea that there was some kind of massive terrorist organisation with bin Laden (or Zawahiri) at its head is false, and always was. The British Army found no trace of it in Afghanistan, once the Taliban was defeated. Where did it go? The Taliban however, and ISIS/ Da'esh' were the organisations many thought Al-qaida was.

I'm old enough to remember media coverage of the embassy bombings, and the USS Cole. Al-qaida wasn't ever mentioned.

Having discuses this with the other mods i have decided to to give you a 7 day temporary ban for promoting a conspiracy theory, your  temporary ban will end on July 10th 2020.

[gillan1220]

I'd see Massoud becoming some sort of interim president or Prime Minister.

[lordroel]

Jul 3, 2020 6:51:48 GMT gillan1220 said:

I'd see Massoud becoming some sort of interim president or Prime Minister.

And still being a target for assassination i guess.

[stevep]

Jul 3, 2020 6:57:40 GMT lordroel said:

Jul 3, 2020 6:51:48 GMT gillan1220 said:

I'd see Massoud becoming some sort of interim president or Prime Minister.

And still being a target for assassination i guess.

  Even more so I suspect.    The fanatics wouldn't want a capable and popular PM opposing them.

[lordroel]

Jul 3, 2020 10:50:43 GMT stevep said:

Jul 3, 2020 6:57:40 GMT lordroel said:

And still being a target for assassination i guess.

  Even more so I suspect.    The fanatics wouldn't want a capable and popular PM opposing them.

And one who i think is more popular than Hamid Karzai.

[gillan1220]

Jul 3, 2020 10:54:42 GMT lordroel said:

Jul 3, 2020 10:50:43 GMT stevep said:

  Even more so I suspect.    The fanatics wouldn't want a capable and popular PM opposing them.

And one who i think is more popular than Hamid Karzai.

From what I read, Massoud's vision for Afghanistan was equality for women and men. Areas under his control after the Fall of Kabul in 1996 were more free compared to the Taliban-controlled south. Women didn't need to wear the hijab and could go to school.

I'd have to agree, Massoud was a good chap. Too good for this world.

[lordroel]

Jul 3, 2020 16:30:00 GMT gillan1220 said:

Jul 3, 2020 10:54:42 GMT lordroel said:

And one who i think is more popular than Hamid Karzai.

From what I read, Massoud's vision for Afghanistan was equality for women and men. Areas under his control after the Fall of Kabul in 1996 were more free compared to the Taliban-controlled south. Women didn't need to wear the hijab and could go to school.

I'd have to agree, Massoud was a good chap. Too good for this world.

Also a bit of anti-Pakistani and bit of Pro-India by the looks of it, the last thing Pakistan is a country friendly towards India.

[gillan1220]

Jul 3, 2020 16:31:52 GMT lordroel said:

Jul 3, 2020 16:30:00 GMT gillan1220 said:

From what I read, Massoud's vision for Afghanistan was equality for women and men. Areas under his control after the Fall of Kabul in 1996 were more free compared to the Taliban-controlled south. Women didn't need to wear the hijab and could go to school.

I'd have to agree, Massoud was a good chap. Too good for this world.

Also a bit of anti-Pakistani and bit of Pro-India by the looks of it, the last thing Pakistan is a country friendly towards India.

India did support his Northern Alliance while Pakistan supported the Taliban.

[stevep]

   The only serious downside, assuming he could avoid assassination in 2001 and later, is that he comes from the northern Tajik, Persian speaking minority.  Given the intensely tribal nature of the country and the dominance of the Pashtun who are demographically the dominant group as well as historically the politically most influential.  Also while in office as defence minister prior to the Taliban invasion he also clashed with the Irani extremists who made repeatedly terrorist attacks on the country. 

  As such unless he can build a stable coalition, which might be difficult as I suspect both Pakistan and Iran would seek to undermine it, Afghanistan could continue to struggle for desperately needed stability. 

[gillan1220]

Jul 4, 2020 12:57:51 GMT stevep said:

   The only serious downside, assuming he could avoid assassination in 2001 and later, is that he comes from the northern Tajik, Persian speaking minority.  Given the intensely tribal nature of the country and the dominance of the Pashtun who are demographically the dominant group as well as historically the politically most influential.  Also while in office as defence minister prior to the Taliban invasion he also clashed with the Irani extremists who made repeatedly terrorist attacks on the country. 

  As such unless he can build a stable coalition, which might be difficult as I suspect both Pakistan and Iran would seek to undermine it, Afghanistan could continue to struggle for desperately needed stability. 

Didn't Iran support the Northern Alliance? I remember the support of the NA was Russia, India, Turkey, Turkmenistan, and Uzbekistan prior to the U.S. intervention. Massoud surviving his assassination would probably see another one occurring. Most likely the ISI of Pakistan would be responsible for it as we know the Pakistanis want to keep Afghanistan within its sphere of influence.

Had Massoud became the first prime minister of a newly established Republic of Afghanistan, then Afghanistan today would be like what is was in the 1960s: fairly liberal and women more free.