Cold Warriors: The Essex Class in the Cold War

[stevep]

Sept 12, 2020 12:53:50 GMT lordroel said:

Sept 12, 2020 12:40:21 GMT ssgtc said:

Keep in mind, these aircraft aren't going to show up tomorrow. Not to mention, it's one thing to plan to fight a war with a broken and weakened former colonial power. It's quite another to even think about challenging the United States

And when has it stop some of them from trying especially if Indonesia thinks the got the full weight of China and the Soviet Union begins them.

  However unlikely N Vietnam Indonesia doesn't have a land border with China and hence the Soviet Union.  If it gets into a shooting war with a western coalition - which is likely if it threatens say closing the Malacca Straits -  or clashed with Malaya [hence Britain] or the Netherlands let alone directly its going to see those links cut off unless the Soviets risk what they wouldn't for Cuba in breaking a western blockade.  Plus in none of the areas claimed by Indonesia is there any significant support for annexation by Indonesian at least as far as I'm aware.  At this point, while the Soviets could threatened western Europe if they were really willing to escalate and even cause problems in the N Atlantic they can't really challenge the overall western domination of the seas.

[ssgtc]

November 1, 1957
Over Ambon, Indonesia

Allen Pope pulled his Havoc out of its shallow dive. He had just dropped his bomb load on Liang Airfield and strafed the flight line. He was flying just above the tops of the trees and as ground based anti-aircraft fire sought him out. Ground fire was more intense today than it had been on his previous runs. For the last week, the CIA had been having him strike targets on Ambon to soften it up for the Permesta rebels to land on the island and seize it.

He had just turned for home when tracers snapped past his cockpit and he felt his aircraft shudder as the right wing was hit. Turning as had as he could to the left, he spared half a second to look at his instrument panel and make sure his engines were still running. They were. Calling his radio operator over the intercom, Allen asked if he was alright and if the man could see any damage. The answer he got back was yes to the first question and no to the second. Twisting his head around like it was mounted on a swivel, Allen tried desperately to see who was engaging him.

Skidding his light attack craft back and forth to try and spoil the aim of whoever was shooting him, Allen felt his blood run cold in his veins. There was a MiG curving around behind him. In a desperate bid to escape, Allen pulled every trick in or out of the book that he could think of. But he was flying a World War Two cast-off. And that was a brand new MiG on his six, matching each and every move he made. Firewalling his engines, he put the Havoc into a climb. Short of a miracle, he and his radio operator would need to altitude to bail out safely.

As he passed through five thousand feet, the control column was ripped violently out of his hands and 23mm cannon shells ripped into his elevators. Ordering his radio operator to bail out, Allen struggled out of the cockpit, made it to the door and jumped into the sky over Ambon just seconds behind his radioman. It was just in time too. Not three seconds after jumping from his doomed bomber, the A-20 Havoc, a veteran of many battles in the war, exploded.

Looking down as he swung from his parachute, Allen could already see Indonesian ground troops assembling to capture him. Sighing heavily, the former Air Force Officer consigned himself to his fate. Crashing to the ground, he was surrounded by soldiers before he could even get out of his risers. Lifting his hands in the air, he surrendered to the Indonesian Army.

Above him, Shang wei Zhao had just scored his tenth kill.

[ssgtc]

Sept 12, 2020 17:55:15 GMT stevep said:

Sept 12, 2020 12:53:50 GMT lordroel said:

And when has it stop some of them from trying especially if Indonesia thinks the got the full weight of China and the Soviet Union begins them.

  However unlikely N Vietnam Indonesia doesn't have a land border with China and hence the Soviet Union.  If it gets into a shooting war with a western coalition - which is likely if it threatens say closing the Malacca Straits -  or clashed with Malaya [hence Britain] or the Netherlands let alone directly its going to see those links cut off unless the Soviets risk what they wouldn't for Cuba in breaking a western blockade.  Plus in none of the areas claimed by Indonesia is there any significant support for annexation by Indonesian at least as far as I'm aware.  At this point, while the Soviets could threatened western Europe if they were really willing to escalate and even cause problems in the N Atlantic they can't really challenge the overall western domination of the seas.

It is a big risk for Indonesia to escalate. But they do have some cover. They've just had cast iron proof of US involvement in the Permesta rebellion fall into their laps. Literally.

[lordroel]

Sept 13, 2020 0:10:28 GMT ssgtc said:

November 1, 1957
Over Ambon, Indonesia

Allen Pope pulled his Havoc out of its shallow dive. He had just dropped his bomb load on Liang Airfield and strafed the flight line. He was flying just above the tops of the trees and as ground based anti-aircraft fire sought him out. Ground fire was more intense today than it had been on his previous runs. For the last week, the CIA had been having him strike targets on Ambon to soften it up for the Permesta rebels to land on the island and seize it.

He had just turned for home when tracers snapped past his cockpit and he felt his aircraft shudder as the right wing was hit. Turning as had as he could to the left, he spared half a second to look at his instrument panel and make sure his engines were still running. They were. Calling his radio operator over the intercom, Allen asked if he was alright and if the man could see any damage. The answer he got back was yes to the first question and no to the second. Twisting his head around like it was mounted on a swivel, Allen tried desperately to see who was engaging him.

Skidding his light attack craft back and forth to try and spoil the aim of whoever was shooting him, Allen felt his blood run cold in his veins. There was a MiG curving around behind him. In a desperate bid to escape, Allen pulled every trick in or out of the book that he could think of. But he was flying a World War Two cast-off. And that was a brand new MiG on his six, matching each and every move he made. Firewalling his engines, he put the Havoc into a climb. Short of a miracle, he and his radio operator would need to altitude to bail out safely.

As he passed through five thousand feet, the control column was ripped violently out of his hands and 23mm cannon shells ripped into his elevators. Ordering his radio operator to bail out, Allen struggled out of the cockpit, made it to the door and jumped into the sky over Ambon just seconds behind his radioman. It was just in time too. Not three seconds after jumping from his doomed bomber, the A-20 Havoc, a veteran of many battles in the war, exploded.

Looking down as he swung from his parachute, Allen could already see Indonesian ground troops assembling to capture him. Sighing heavily, the former Air Force Officer consigned himself to his fate. Crashing to the ground, he was surrounded by soldiers before he could even get out of his risers. Lifting his hands in the air, he surrendered to the Indonesian Army.

Above him, Shang wei Zhao had just scored his tenth kill.

I assume the Indonesians are going to make it look like a Indonesian pilot was the one who shot down the A-20, ore are they going to tell the truth.

[stevep]

Sept 13, 2020 1:34:14 GMT ssgtc said:

Sept 12, 2020 17:55:15 GMT stevep said:

  However unlikely N Vietnam Indonesia doesn't have a land border with China and hence the Soviet Union.  If it gets into a shooting war with a western coalition - which is likely if it threatens say closing the Malacca Straits -  or clashed with Malaya [hence Britain] or the Netherlands let alone directly its going to see those links cut off unless the Soviets risk what they wouldn't for Cuba in breaking a western blockade.  Plus in none of the areas claimed by Indonesia is there any significant support for annexation by Indonesian at least as far as I'm aware.  At this point, while the Soviets could threatened western Europe if they were really willing to escalate and even cause problems in the N Atlantic they can't really challenge the overall western domination of the seas.

It is a big risk for Indonesia to escalate. But they do have some cover. They've just had cast iron proof of US involvement in the Permesta rebellion fall into their laps. Literally.

  Definitely a major error by the US and embarrassing for them.  Won't change the basic issue of Indonesian imperial aims but will cloud the issue.

[ssgtc]

Sept 13, 2020 6:02:17 GMT lordroel said:

Sept 13, 2020 0:10:28 GMT ssgtc said:

November 1, 1957
Over Ambon, Indonesia

Allen Pope pulled his Havoc out of its shallow dive. He had just dropped his bomb load on Liang Airfield and strafed the flight line. He was flying just above the tops of the trees and as ground based anti-aircraft fire sought him out. Ground fire was more intense today than it had been on his previous runs. For the last week, the CIA had been having him strike targets on Ambon to soften it up for the Permesta rebels to land on the island and seize it.

He had just turned for home when tracers snapped past his cockpit and he felt his aircraft shudder as the right wing was hit. Turning as had as he could to the left, he spared half a second to look at his instrument panel and make sure his engines were still running. They were. Calling his radio operator over the intercom, Allen asked if he was alright and if the man could see any damage. The answer he got back was yes to the first question and no to the second. Twisting his head around like it was mounted on a swivel, Allen tried desperately to see who was engaging him.

Skidding his light attack craft back and forth to try and spoil the aim of whoever was shooting him, Allen felt his blood run cold in his veins. There was a MiG curving around behind him. In a desperate bid to escape, Allen pulled every trick in or out of the book that he could think of. But he was flying a World War Two cast-off. And that was a brand new MiG on his six, matching each and every move he made. Firewalling his engines, he put the Havoc into a climb. Short of a miracle, he and his radio operator would need to altitude to bail out safely.

As he passed through five thousand feet, the control column was ripped violently out of his hands and 23mm cannon shells ripped into his elevators. Ordering his radio operator to bail out, Allen struggled out of the cockpit, made it to the door and jumped into the sky over Ambon just seconds behind his radioman. It was just in time too. Not three seconds after jumping from his doomed bomber, the A-20 Havoc, a veteran of many battles in the war, exploded.

Looking down as he swung from his parachute, Allen could already see Indonesian ground troops assembling to capture him. Sighing heavily, the former Air Force Officer consigned himself to his fate. Crashing to the ground, he was surrounded by soldiers before he could even get out of his risers. Lifting his hands in the air, he surrendered to the Indonesian Army.

Above him, Shang wei Zhao had just scored his tenth kill.

I assume the Indonesians are going to make it look like a Indonesian pilot was the one who shot down the A-20, ore are they going to tell the truth.

Officially it was an Indonesian aircraft and pilot. In OTL, he was shot down by an Indonesian pilot in a P-51 Mustang. Here, a MiG-17 gets him.

[ssgtc]

Sept 13, 2020 11:42:05 GMT stevep said:

Sept 13, 2020 1:34:14 GMT ssgtc said:

It is a big risk for Indonesia to escalate. But they do have some cover. They've just had cast iron proof of US involvement in the Permesta rebellion fall into their laps. Literally.

  Definitely a major error by the US and embarrassing for them.  Won't change the basic issue of Indonesian imperial aims but will cloud the issue.

Exactly. American involvement in Indonesia was screwed up from the beginning. Honestly, it's amazing that Suharto was pro-West when he couped Sukarno given the way the US treated Indonesia.

[lordroel]

Sept 13, 2020 12:40:09 GMT ssgtc said:

Sept 13, 2020 6:02:17 GMT lordroel said:

I assume the Indonesians are going to make it look like a Indonesian pilot was the one who shot down the A-20, ore are they going to tell the truth.

Officially it was an Indonesian aircraft and pilot. In OTL, he was shot down by an Indonesian pilot in a P-51 Mustang. Here, a MiG-17 gets him.

Now the question if he is released as OTL ore will suffer a different fate here

[ssgtc]

Sept 13, 2020 12:45:09 GMT lordroel said:

Sept 13, 2020 12:40:09 GMT ssgtc said:

Officially it was an Indonesian aircraft and pilot. In OTL, he was shot down by an Indonesian pilot in a P-51 Mustang. Here, a MiG-17 gets him.

Now the question if he is released as OTL ore will suffer a different fate here

*inspects fingernails and whistles*

[ssgtc]

November 2, 1957
Over Sulawesi, Indonesia

The flight of four Beagle light bombers made their bombing run in a perfect attack formation. This was the combat debut of the bomber in Indonesian service. Each bomber had four 250kg bombs in their bomb bays. This was far less than their maximum payload of 6,000 kilograms, but it did give them their maximum range. And the four bombers should be more than up to the task at hand.

Ahead, their target was visible rising up out of the forest. The transmitter tower of the CIA funded radio station was just ahead. With their bomb bay doors open, the four aircraft streaked in at 2,000 meters. Making a formation drop, the sixteen bombs fell onto the target. Of the sixteen bombs, fourteen fell into the jungle surrounding the radio station. Two of them however, slammed into the structure and detonated. The radio station that had been broadcasting anti-Sukarno propaganda ceased to exist.

On board the four bombers, the crews were jubilant. They had just completed their first mission. Even more remarkable, every member of the flight crews but one was Indonesian. There would be celebrations in the barracks tonight.

[ssgtc]

November 2, 1957
Over Sumatra, Indonesia

The flight of four Beagle light bombers made their bombing run in a perfect attack formation. This was the combat debut of the bomber in Indonesian service. Each bomber had four 250kg bombs in their bomb bays. This was far less than their maximum payload of 6,000 kilograms, but it did give them their maximum range. And the four bombers should be more than up to the task at hand.

Ahead, their target was visible rising up out of the forest. The transmitter tower of the CIA funded radio station was just ahead. With their bomb bay doors open, the four aircraft streaked in at 2,000 meters. Making a formation drop, the sixteen bombs fell onto the target. Of the sixteen bombs, thirteen fell into the jungle surrounding the radio station. Three of them however, slammed into the structure and detonated. The radio station that had been broadcasting anti-Sukarno propaganda ceased to exist.

On board the four bombers, the crews were jubilant. They had just completed their first mission. Even more remarkable, every member of the flight crews but one was Indonesian. There would be celebrations in the barracks tonight.

[lordroel]

Sept 13, 2020 22:52:31 GMT ssgtc said:

November 2, 1957
Over Sumatra, Indonesia

On board the four bombers, the crews were jubilant. They had just completed their first mission. Even more remarkable, every member of the flight crews but one was Indonesian. There would be celebrations in the barracks tonight.

Sept 13, 2020 22:52:04 GMT ssgtc said:

November 2, 1957
Over Sulawesi, Indonesia

On board the four bombers, the crews were jubilant. They had just completed their first mission. Even more remarkable, every member of the flight crews but one was Indonesian. There would be celebrations in the barracks tonight.

Two strike missions claiming a first, that is going to be fun at the barracks when they encounter each other.

[stevep]

Sept 15, 2020 14:23:56 GMT lordroel said:

Sept 13, 2020 22:52:31 GMT ssgtc said:

November 2, 1957
Over Sumatra, Indonesia

On board the four bombers, the crews were jubilant. They had just completed their first mission. Even more remarkable, every member of the flight crews but one was Indonesian. There would be celebrations in the barracks tonight.

Sept 13, 2020 22:52:04 GMT ssgtc said:

November 2, 1957
Over Sulawesi, Indonesia

On board the four bombers, the crews were jubilant. They had just completed their first mission. Even more remarkable, every member of the flight crews but one was Indonesian. There would be celebrations in the barracks tonight.

Two strike missions claiming a first, that is going to be fun at the barracks when they encounter each other.

  That's the problem with illegal cloning.   I think its just an accidental double post but assume you realise that.

[lordroel]

Sept 15, 2020 14:32:11 GMT stevep said:

Sept 15, 2020 14:23:56 GMT lordroel said:

Two strike missions claiming a first, that is going to be fun at the barracks when they encounter each other.

  That's the problem with illegal cloning.   I think its just an accidental double post but assume you realise that.

Nope stevep, on a different forum he made it clear it is not a double post, look at the locations the strikes happen and you come to the conclusion that there will be a barracks brawl coming up.

[stevep]

Sept 15, 2020 14:34:41 GMT lordroel said:

Sept 15, 2020 14:32:11 GMT stevep said:

  That's the problem with illegal cloning.   I think its just an accidental double post but assume you realise that.

Nope stevep , on a different forum he made it clear it is not a double post, look at the locations the strikes happen and you come to the conclusion that there will be a barracks brawl coming up.

  OK thanks.  That is likely to prompt such a brawl.