A window of opportunity 1905

[575]

July 1945
With the German mobilizing East Prussia and the effective mobile defences east of Brest-Litovsk and ongoing city-fight in Lvov the Poles were still building up their counterattack force in Central Poland. Though lacking Trucks the Poles kept waiting confident their lines would hold.
Being in the central position and having the Soviets on the fringe of theirs the Poles benefitted hugely by still being able to import by sea and land.

The Czechoslovaks had decided to sell all possible to the Poles as long as they would pay – no generosity here but realization that losing their buffer against Russia would be to their detriment. Tatra Trucks had become a new stable of the Czech export to the Poles.
The Germans shrugged as they sold Trucks too in numbers; they didn't want to sell arms but Trucks was okay and if it helped the Poles fend off the Soviets it'll be even more ok. Better the Poles die than Germans fighting off the Soviets.

France was very keen to supply the Poles Trucks but in the political turmoil and with the Popular Front Government still at the helm ammunition in quantity didn't reach the Poles. Older equipment did still as it was seen as propping up a man about to fall any moment and thus of no real value – what the French Government was unaware of was the Poles in the years during the Soviet – Japanese Wars had been developing new arms partly for export to Japan partly for own use.
With the knowledge of little possible arms deliveries from France in case of war the Poles had been keen to design new Tank guns to fit into older Tank design turrets notably those already on hand designed or bought in France such as the Somua S35, Hotchkiss H35/39 and Renault R35. The Poles wasn't stupid – even the French during the Government of Laval's had held them at arms length not committing to anything.

If any the Nordics was willing to sell ammunition to the Poles by the maxim of “the enemy of my enemy,” but also to fund the hugely expensive Nuclear Bomb project.

The real big seller to the Poles were the British fuelled in this area as regarding Aircraft by the constant advocate of any enemy of the Sovietunion - Winston Churchill.

With the Skoda Engine Factory at Warsaw(nationalized) the existing Tanks had had engine upgrades as well as new guns though they were still old; however the Poles had to make do with what's on hand. Those older French tanks had armourprotection but were in need of reliable engines and better guns with more hitting power; still there was no way of getting more men in the turret to ease the strain on the Commander residing usually alone there.

A light in the dark was the state of the Soviet Baltic Fleet which had languished through the years of War in Machuria even the Soviets didn't seem to be aware of its sorry state.
As the Soviets through those years had focused on Submarines and send all available for railtransport and designed new ones with this in mind east the Baltic Fleet was even lacking in this area as the boats of size were either old or few in numbers.
Tied to this was the non-development of surface units; those that had been obtained from abroad (Italy) had been absorbed by the Black Sea Fleet which was in as bad a state following the Soviet – Japanese Wars as the Baltic Fleet if now in a somewhat better shape. This was also due to the impossibility to obtain surface units from the Baltic Sea area – neighter the Germans nor the Nordics were wanting to sell off old units nor build new ones for the possible Soviet costumer as that costumer had little financial means to buy and thus wanted to enter barter deals as it had been able to with Italy during that nations lean years which had ended with the discovery of oil in Libya.

As such the Polish Navy had like the Soviet turned to submerged warfare though for the Poles this meant detecting and sinking Submarines.
In this respect the Germans had showed some willingness to cooperate militarily as it too at least during the last years of the Soviet – Japanese Wars had sensed the possible turn of the Soviets to the west and thus that Soviet Submarines would be a menace in the Baltic Sea.
Turning to the Nordics, who had had their share during the Great War of Submarine Warfare on the receiving end but also from patrolling the North Sea and Baltic mainly so the Danish and Norwegian Navies - and the Poles; should war break out you'd need all the hands possible.
So the Germans included Polish ASW officers on inter-Navy courses in Nordic countries waters where the Germans supplied their knowledge of Great War experience.
This German Naval attitude was only possible because of the real adversity to the Poles rested with the Aristocratic Army Officers Corps.

Indirect aid to the Poles and their important shipping into the Baltic were the friendly attitude of Danish Government regarding passage of the Straits but even more so the soon following outbreak of hostilities perceived Soviet Submarine activity in the Baltic against Polish shipping as well as a few Danish and Swedish Merchantmen being torpedoed by unidentified Submarines and sunk.
Building up of a Danish ASW Squadron at Bornholm and the partly mobilization of the Swedish main Navy Base at Karlskrona, Blekinga and stationing of ASW units at Gotland – all on the route or access to the waters utilized by Polish merchantmen.
This made possible a safe route through Danish/Swedish waters to the island of Bornholm for the last run of some 200 km's to Polish waters through the southern part of the Baltic to the north of Poland were regularly patrolled by a German ASW Squadron to make safe the supplying of XI Corps in Lithuania and Latvia which also prompted German Supply Convoys to these countries.

As an outcome of all this Naval activity within the Baltic the Sovietunion began to pressure both Estonia and to a lesser extend Finland for maintaining its free access through the Bay of Finland and into the Baltic, which could easily be closed by those nations, and because of which the Soviet Baltic Fleet often had its surface units even the old Battleships run the International Waters passage down the middle of the Bay of Finland occasionally entering territorial waters of either nation to test their vigilance.
Suffice the say any such violations were immediately drawing diplomatic responses from Finland backed by the other Nordics – less so by the Estonians who though asked for German Navy presence after which followed a large violation by the Soviet Baltic Fleet which prompted the station at Tallinn of a German Squadron lead by the Heavy Cruiser Deutschland and a squadron of ASW Destroyers just to bring the message home. The Soviets didn't cease the violations of Estonian waters but the numbers dropped significantly.
The presence of the German Navy Squadron at Tallinn and aggressive Danish and Swedish ASW units in Baltic waters soon had the Soviets step down activity especially following a couple of possible sinkings of Submarines by Danish and Swedish ASW Frigates.

[stevep]

   I was thinking when you said that the Soviet Baltic fleet was mainly subs that would be a recipe for upsetting assorted other nations because any suspicious attacks by subs would be blamed on them and cause a lot of tension.

[575]

Nov 15, 2022 18:58:45 GMT stevep said:

   I was thinking when you said that the Soviet Baltic fleet was mainly subs that would be a recipe for upsetting assorted other nations because any suspicious attacks by subs would be blamed on them and cause a lot of tension.

Absolutely and bring back memories of "Whisky on the Rocks" 1981 and other Swedish Navy hunting probable Submarines in the Arqipelago during those years.

ITTL the Danish and Swedish would be much more willing to fire at incursions even if sinkings were done by unidentified Submarines.

[575]

Early August 1945
The Poles had waited it out – the losses had been great but the nation had held the enemy at bay.
International journalists covering the War from Warsaw had issued all kinds of opinions on the Polish ability to fight back at the Soviets all referring to the end outcome of the Soviet-Japanese Wars.
In the North the defences of Narev and of the Nurzec – Lesna rivers - Brest-Litovsk line reached by the Soviet offensive still held though it seemed the Soviets were stockpiling for the breaking of both.
In the south both Lublin and Lvov were still contested with the latter more resembling a pile of ruins than a city due to the heavy fighting.
However the important oil fields of Drohobych and neighboring Boryslav to the south of Lvov was still operated by the Poles as was the new field at Nosowka in Galicia west of Lvov which had only been discovered a few years before. Still Poland were an oil exporter mainly to Czechoslovakia in the present to pay for arms, ammunition and trucks and able to meet domestic needs in wartime.

Harvest was approaching but the Poles had covered that too with the many men absent in the ranks; Hungarians, Romanians and Yugoslavians had been advertised for to bring in the harvest and had begun arriving. It was the reverse of the situation before the Great War when as many as 19,000 Poles a year many from Galizia had gone to Denmark to bring in the harvest. Even it being war a lot of peoples responded to the adverts; peoples from poor countries.

With the homefront catered for and having build up a Motorized Force for the offensive it was unleashed upon the Soviets.
The Polish force jumped off from Rzeszew moved northeast towards Zamosc more less halfway between Lublin and Lvov and then kept going for Lutsk and the railway to Lublin and Brest-Litovsk.
With only scattered formations in the area the Soviet defences soon collapsed leaving an open road ahead for Zamosc and ultimately the railway Lutsk – Kovel which would see the Army at Lublin cut off its communications; Zhukov clearly saw the danger and asked Stalin to retreat that Army should needs dictate so and got a resounding NO.
At the same time Zhukov also withdrew Tank and Motorized units and reserves from both Lublin and Lvov areas to concentrate against the Polish advance.

As the Polish advanceguard approached Lutsk it met the Soviet Tank forces and fell back with the Soviets charging into the trap. The Poles lost quite a number of Tanks but they were able to encircle the Soviet Force and then wear it down with longrange Tank/Anti-Tank fire. Even if the dated French tanks which was the main of the Polish Tank Force might have looked obsolete the new guns did the job mostly so because of the Soviet T-34s being difficult to run and even more so get aimed shots off fast. The Poles were just faster on the trigger.

With the northern railwayline from the border to Lublin still operational though interdicted by the Polish Bomber Brigade the Polish Motorized Force headed north east of the Styr River to cut the railway to Kovel.
Depleating Kyiv of troops Zhukov managed to get a force by train in the direction of Kovel detrain and stop the Polish advance short of objective.
As Zhukov was chasing the Polish Motorized Force around Northern Galizia and Volynia the Carpathian Corps now swelled to the Carpathian Army opened its own offensive east of Lvov to reach the Bug and cut off the Lvov Army. Tied down in the cityfight and stripped of Mobile units the Soviets soon found themselves cut off from the railway to Tarnopol and Kyiv.
The Carpathinan Army had used its resources in the offensive but had attained its objective and began diggin in.

To the north of Lutsk on the Styr River the Polish Motorized Force was relieved by Infantry moving up from Rzeszew.
Zhukov had barely managed to keep the railway to Lublin open and operational though the Polish Bomber Brigade kept pounding it.

By late August the Polish Motorized Force had relocated back the Styr to Lutsk and began the march northwest towards Kovel.
The Polish Motorized Force began its new operations following an Infantry/Cavalry attack west of Lutsk to detract Soviet attention; a rather classic manouevre which the Soviets seems to pour reinforcements into repulsing as the Motorized Force moved further west to Zaturtsi to initiate its own attack in the direction of Kovel. The Soviets had relied on the rather large swampy area south of Kovel to anchor its defences upon though it also served to hinder effective movement of reserves once the Motorized Force jumped off west of the swampy area as the Polish Infantry attack had been to the east of the swampy area. The lack of road and railway through the swampy area further limited movement of troops there.
With the local reserves sent to counter the Polish diversory attack the Motorized Force was able to roll up the Soviet defences and move north to Kovel and cut the railway leading to Lublin.

[stevep]

Nov 16, 2022 15:19:47 GMT 575 said:

Early August 1945
The Poles had waited it out – the losses had been great but the nation had held the enemy at bay.
International journalists covering the War from Warsaw had issued all kinds of opinions on the Polish ability to fight back at the Soviets all referring to the end outcome of the Soviet-Japanese Wars.
In the North the defences of Narev and of the Nurzec – Lesna rivers - Brest-Litovsk line reached by the Soviet offensive still held though it seemed the Soviets were stockpiling for the breaking of both.
In the south both Lublin and Lvov were still contested with the latter more resembling a pile of ruins than a city due to the heavy fighting.
However the important oil fields of Drohobych and neighboring Boryslav to the south of Lvov was still operated by the Poles as was the new field at Nosowka in Galicia west of Lvov which had only been discovered a few years before. Still Poland were an oil exporter mainly to Czechoslovakia in the present to pay for arms, ammunition and trucks and able to meet domestic needs in wartime.

Harvest was approaching but the Poles had covered that too with the many men absent in the ranks; Hungarians, Romanians and Yugoslavians had been advertised for to bring in the harvest and had begun arriving. It was the reverse of the situation before the Great War when as many as 19,000 Poles a year many from Galizia had gone to Denmark to bring in the harvest. Even it being war a lot of peoples responded to the adverts; peoples from poor countries.

With the homefront catered for and having build up a Motorized Force for the offensive it was unleashed upon the Soviets.
The Polish force jumped off from Rzeszew moved northeast towards Zamosc more less halfway between Lublin and Lvov and then kept going for Lutsk and the railway to Lublin and Brest-Litovsk.
With only scattered formations in the area the Soviet defences soon collapsed leaving an open road ahead for Zamosc and ultimately the railway Lutsk – Kovel which would see the Army at Lublin cut off its communications; Zhukov clearly saw the danger and asked Stalin to retreat that Army should needs dictate so and got a resounding NO.
At the same time Zhukov also withdrew Tank and Motorized units and reserves from both Lublin and Lvov areas to concentrate against the Polish advance.

As the Polish advanceguard approached Lutsk it met the Soviet Tank forces and fell back with the Soviets charging into the trap. The Poles lost quite a number of Tanks but they were able to encircle the Soviet Force and then wear it down with longrange Tank/Anti-Tank fire. Even if the dated French tanks which was the main of the Polish Tank Force might have looked obsolete the new guns did the job mostly so because of the Soviet T-34s being difficult to run and even more so get aimed shots off fast. The Poles were just faster on the trigger.

With the northern railwayline from the border to Lublin still operational though interdicted by the Polish Bomber Brigade the Polish Motorized Force headed north east of the Styr River to cut the railway to Kovel.
Depleating Kyiv of troops Zhukov managed to get a force by train in the direction of Kovel detrain and stop the Polish advance short of objective.
As Zhukov was chasing the Polish Motorized Force around Northern Galizia and Volynia the Carpathian Corps now swelled to the Carpathian Army opened its own offensive east of Lvov to reach the Bug and cut off the Lvov Army. Tied down in the cityfight and stripped of Mobile units the Soviets soon found themselves cut off from the railway to Tarnopol and Kyiv.
The Carpathinan Army had used its resources in the offensive but had attained its objective and began diggin in.

To the north of Lutsk on the Styr River the Polish Motorized Force was relieved by Infantry moving up from Rzeszew.
Zhukov had barely managed to keep the railway to Lublin open and operational though the Polish Bomber Brigade kept pounding it.

By late August the Polish Motorized Force had relocated back the Styr to Lutsk and began the march northwest towards Kovel.
The Polish Motorized Force began its new operations following an Infantry/Cavalry attack west of Lutsk to detract Soviet attention; a rather classic manouevre which the Soviets seems to pour reinforcements into repulsing as the Motorized Force moved further west to Zaturtsi to initiate its own attack in the direction of Kovel. The Soviets had relied on the rather large swampy area south of Kovel to anchor its defences upon though it also served to hinder effective movement of reserves once the Motorized Force jumped off west of the swampy area as the Polish Infantry attack had been to the east of the swampy area. The lack of road and railway through the swampy area further limited movement of troops there.
With the local reserves sent to counter the Polish diversory attack the Motorized Force was able to roll up the Soviet defences and move north to Kovel and cut the railway leading to Lublin.

  Well that was dramatic.  I wasn't expecting Poland, somewhat isolated as it was, to generate such an offensive. This could be fatal to Zhukov, his career if not his life as we know who will take the blame if the Poles pull off another miracle.  Although given their OTL WWII performance this could be more an enlarged Winter War with the Poles eventually worn down unless they get some significant allies.

[575]

Nov 16, 2022 19:43:53 GMT stevep said:

Nov 16, 2022 15:19:47 GMT 575 said:

Early August 1945
The Poles had waited it out – the losses had been great but the nation had held the enemy at bay.
International journalists covering the War from Warsaw had issued all kinds of opinions on the Polish ability to fight back at the Soviets all referring to the end outcome of the Soviet-Japanese Wars.
In the North the defences of Narev and of the Nurzec – Lesna rivers - Brest-Litovsk line reached by the Soviet offensive still held though it seemed the Soviets were stockpiling for the breaking of both.
In the south both Lublin and Lvov were still contested with the latter more resembling a pile of ruins than a city due to the heavy fighting.
However the important oil fields of Drohobych and neighboring Boryslav to the south of Lvov was still operated by the Poles as was the new field at Nosowka in Galicia west of Lvov which had only been discovered a few years before. Still Poland were an oil exporter mainly to Czechoslovakia in the present to pay for arms, ammunition and trucks and able to meet domestic needs in wartime.

Harvest was approaching but the Poles had covered that too with the many men absent in the ranks; Hungarians, Romanians and Yugoslavians had been advertised for to bring in the harvest and had begun arriving. It was the reverse of the situation before the Great War when as many as 19,000 Poles a year many from Galizia had gone to Denmark to bring in the harvest. Even it being war a lot of peoples responded to the adverts; peoples from poor countries.

With the homefront catered for and having build up a Motorized Force for the offensive it was unleashed upon the Soviets.
The Polish force jumped off from Rzeszew moved northeast towards Zamosc more less halfway between Lublin and Lvov and then kept going for Lutsk and the railway to Lublin and Brest-Litovsk.
With only scattered formations in the area the Soviet defences soon collapsed leaving an open road ahead for Zamosc and ultimately the railway Lutsk – Kovel which would see the Army at Lublin cut off its communications; Zhukov clearly saw the danger and asked Stalin to retreat that Army should needs dictate so and got a resounding NO.
At the same time Zhukov also withdrew Tank and Motorized units and reserves from both Lublin and Lvov areas to concentrate against the Polish advance.

As the Polish advanceguard approached Lutsk it met the Soviet Tank forces and fell back with the Soviets charging into the trap. The Poles lost quite a number of Tanks but they were able to encircle the Soviet Force and then wear it down with longrange Tank/Anti-Tank fire. Even if the dated French tanks which was the main of the Polish Tank Force might have looked obsolete the new guns did the job mostly so because of the Soviet T-34s being difficult to run and even more so get aimed shots off fast. The Poles were just faster on the trigger.

With the northern railwayline from the border to Lublin still operational though interdicted by the Polish Bomber Brigade the Polish Motorized Force headed north east of the Styr River to cut the railway to Kovel.
Depleating Kyiv of troops Zhukov managed to get a force by train in the direction of Kovel detrain and stop the Polish advance short of objective.
As Zhukov was chasing the Polish Motorized Force around Northern Galizia and Volynia the Carpathian Corps now swelled to the Carpathian Army opened its own offensive east of Lvov to reach the Bug and cut off the Lvov Army. Tied down in the cityfight and stripped of Mobile units the Soviets soon found themselves cut off from the railway to Tarnopol and Kyiv.
The Carpathinan Army had used its resources in the offensive but had attained its objective and began diggin in.

To the north of Lutsk on the Styr River the Polish Motorized Force was relieved by Infantry moving up from Rzeszew.
Zhukov had barely managed to keep the railway to Lublin open and operational though the Polish Bomber Brigade kept pounding it.

By late August the Polish Motorized Force had relocated back the Styr to Lutsk and began the march northwest towards Kovel.
The Polish Motorized Force began its new operations following an Infantry/Cavalry attack west of Lutsk to detract Soviet attention; a rather classic manouevre which the Soviets seems to pour reinforcements into repulsing as the Motorized Force moved further west to Zaturtsi to initiate its own attack in the direction of Kovel. The Soviets had relied on the rather large swampy area south of Kovel to anchor its defences upon though it also served to hinder effective movement of reserves once the Motorized Force jumped off west of the swampy area as the Polish Infantry attack had been to the east of the swampy area. The lack of road and railway through the swampy area further limited movement of troops there.
With the local reserves sent to counter the Polish diversory attack the Motorized Force was able to roll up the Soviet defences and move north to Kovel and cut the railway leading to Lublin.

  Well that was dramatic.  I wasn't expecting Poland, somewhat isolated as it was, to generate such an offensive. This could be fatal to Zhukov, his career if not his life as we know who will take the blame if the Poles pull off another miracle.  Although given their OTL WWII performance this could be more an enlarged Winter War with the Poles eventually worn down unless they get some significant allies.

The inspiration is the current War in Ukraine with a Soviet Army somewhat worn down during previous years in the Far East fighting and Poland having been able to rebuild crucial elements of its armed forces prior to invasion though as stated this hadn't been fully achived which the lull in fighting during Soviet rebuilding for renewed offensive made possible during war.

Also I did do some reasearch on Polish oil production and added a new oilfield only found later; Czechoslovakia was the major customer prior to WWII so that would finance a lot of Polish armprocurement.

Also in the light of WiU and the Polish performance during 1939 seems to me a better performance possible here.

The Poles are going to get some de facto allies and some events in Soivetunion is also going to help though still some time in cooker!

[575]

September 1945
The NKVD had been able to put a lid on unrest in the Russian cities due to lack of foodstuffs.
Now all the hands to be spared was mobilized for the harvest season to ensure graneries filled and calm in the cities.
On the Polish front things weren't that good. The Polish defensive line in the north still held on the Narev and the Nurzec – Lesna rivers - Brest-Litovsk lines.
In the south the situation had been stabilized in Volynia though the Polish Motorized Force had managed to capture Kovel and cut off Lublin railway making disaster loom there.
At Lvov the force in the city was practically cut off though a route into the city still kept open; Stalin had decided against retreating from the city and from Lublin – the furthest Soviet advance into Poland.
Reserves had been mobilized and was being brought forward to initiate an offensive to reestablish lines of communications with the Army at Lvov and to open the road to Lublin.
Zhukov badly needed to prop up defences and move ahead in the South. In the North the situation was still difficult as the Soviet Army at Bialystok were preparing for crossing the Narev to the west of the city.
Should the southern Army in the area be able to push through the Nurzec – Lesna rivers - Brest-Litovsk line it would still need to cross the Bug which was a much wider river and Brest-Litovsk a large fortress south of which the Pripyat Marsh was more than difficult to move through in numbers. Though the main effort had to be there as breaking the Nurzec – Lesna rivers - Brest-Litovsk line would open the way to drive north and unhinge the Polish defence of the Narev.
A lot of the ammunition which had been severely depleated during the war in Manchuria hadn't been restocked for this campaign and the Poles had been underestimated though the actions of the Germans had also tipped the scales in the North as planning had used the railwayline from Leningrad – Pskov – Daugaupils in Latvia – Vilno for supply. A lot of these supplies now sat in the railwayyard at Moscow pending rerouting west through Minsk.
There had been instances in the south of Ukrainian troops not wanting to fight the Poles but these had been sent to Penal Battalions – a minor problem.
Now Zhukov just had to sit out the month to have stockpiled supplies upfront for the next push west.

[575]

October 1945
Stalin was furious. The harvest had been disastrously small. It would mean lack of foodstuffs generally; unrest had to be expected in the cities.
Stalin ordered that a campaign of counter famine be carried out. The peoples should be told that the farmworkers had brought the harvest in but defaitists, counterrevolutionaries and corrupt administrators had squandered the destribution to the cities.
Those would be held responsible for the shortages.
As the NKVD would combat these the populace needed to do even more to secure the Victory of Revolution; not only at home but by appearing at mobilizations centers to join the Red Army in defeating the Bourgouis Polish Fascist State that had robbed the Revolution of precious lands.
Citizens should report immediately for mobilization.

[575]

October 25, 1945 (excerpt from pseudonym Anatoly's book: The Third Russian Revolution of the 20. Century)
Anatoly a provincial paper journalist too old to have been drafted and politically reliable looked up at the Lenin Mausoleum.
The men was some other than expected. Stalin wasn't to be seen. Zhukov wasn't to be seen. Beria was the man in the center.
Anatoly put away his pencil and notebook – one other journalist looked at him for a moment and then did so too. A NKVD man in their crowd looked at them and nodded his head in approval – this would be reported in the right terms!
Anatoly thought it over; the Poles were almost back at their borders of May. His cousin had told of the losses in the T-34 Tanks and the older Tanks committed to the struggle. His son was dead at the Narev trying to assault the Poles in their river defences. He gritted his teeth. No – this had to be reported in the right terms; no notes needed!
He knew the French had voted the Popular Front Government out of office – it hadn't been reported anywhere but then the new French Government had been termed Bourgeois and Fascist he knew. The new French Government had even sent troops to support the last Polish offensive; the Germans hadn't but then a large German Army was now in the Baltic States – all three of them.
There was NKVD Troops all over Red Square and Anatoly was afraid when he left it but nobody seemed to care; some way off an old lady even said to him “It will be reported in the right terms!”; Anatoly nodded and hurried off. Some NKVD troops was nearby but didn't do anything too far off Red Square..

(some clue in the Date..)

[stevep]

Nov 17, 2022 19:53:11 GMT 575 said:

October 25, 1945 (excerpt from pseudonym Anatoly's book: The Third Russian Revolution of the 20. Century)
Anatoly a provincial paper journalist too old to have been drafted and politically reliable looked up at the Lenin Mausoleum.
The men was some other than expected. Stalin wasn't to be seen. Zhukov wasn't to be seen. Beria was the man in the center.
Anatoly put away his pencil and notebook – one other journalist looked at him for a moment and then did so too. A NKVD man in their crowd looked at them and nodded his head in approval – this would be reported in the right terms!
Anatoly thought it over; the Poles were almost back at their borders of May. His cousin had told of the losses in the T-34 Tanks and the older Tanks committed to the struggle. His son was dead at the Narev trying to assault the Poles in their river defences. He gritted his teeth. No – this had to be reported in the right terms; no notes needed!
He knew the French had voted the Popular Front Government out of office – it hadn't been reported anywhere but then the new French Government had been termed Bourgeois and Fascist he knew. The new French Government had even sent troops to support the last Polish offensive; the Germans hadn't but then a large German Army was now in the Baltic States – all three of them.
There was NKVD Troops all over Red Square and Anatoly was afraid when he left it but nobody seemed to care; some way off an old lady even said to him “It will be reported in the right terms!”; Anatoly nodded and hurried off. Some NKVD troops was nearby but didn't do anything too far off Red Square..

(some clue in the Date..)

  Not as much as in the post title.   I see chaos ahead, especially since while Stalin, especially in TTL was very bad a lot of people will fear Beria will be even more of a monster.

  Of course one downside for Europe is that if the great Soviet ogre implodes then its no longer - at least for the moment - an incentive for avoiding disputes and the like across the rest of Europe.

[575]

Nov 17, 2022 20:55:03 GMT stevep said:

Nov 17, 2022 19:53:11 GMT 575 said:

October 25, 1945 (excerpt from pseudonym Anatoly's book: The Third Russian Revolution of the 20. Century)
Anatoly a provincial paper journalist too old to have been drafted and politically reliable looked up at the Lenin Mausoleum.
The men was some other than expected. Stalin wasn't to be seen. Zhukov wasn't to be seen. Beria was the man in the center.
Anatoly put away his pencil and notebook – one other journalist looked at him for a moment and then did so too. A NKVD man in their crowd looked at them and nodded his head in approval – this would be reported in the right terms!
Anatoly thought it over; the Poles were almost back at their borders of May. His cousin had told of the losses in the T-34 Tanks and the older Tanks committed to the struggle. His son was dead at the Narev trying to assault the Poles in their river defences. He gritted his teeth. No – this had to be reported in the right terms; no notes needed!
He knew the French had voted the Popular Front Government out of office – it hadn't been reported anywhere but then the new French Government had been termed Bourgeois and Fascist he knew. The new French Government had even sent troops to support the last Polish offensive; the Germans hadn't but then a large German Army was now in the Baltic States – all three of them.
There was NKVD Troops all over Red Square and Anatoly was afraid when he left it but nobody seemed to care; some way off an old lady even said to him “It will be reported in the right terms!”; Anatoly nodded and hurried off. Some NKVD troops was nearby but didn't do anything too far off Red Square..

(some clue in the Date..)

  Not as much as in the post title.   I see chaos ahead, especially since while Stalin, especially in TTL was very bad a lot of people will fear Beria will be even more of a monster.

  Of course one downside for Europe is that if the great Soviet ogre implodes then its no longer - at least for the moment - an incentive for avoiding disputes and the like across the rest of Europe.

Yes, my point though forgot I was writing in English..

I changed the format a little to have the view of a Russian of Russia from the inside.. and is very much pondering just what is going to happen but yes the can of worms is opening..!

[575]

November 7, 1945 onwards (excerpt from pseudonym Anatoly's book: The Third Russian Revolution of the 20. Century)
Soviet attack on Finland had been announced as the final defeat of the Bourgeois States.
Anatoly knew better; Beria had to rid himself of parts of the Army to stay alive.
The Polish Campaign had ended in disaster; the troops had upped and left Poland in places where NKVD units chose to had fought these and in a lot of places defeated them only to keep going home.
The Polish had sensed something big to be brewing and had let the Soviets go their own way only slowly moving in the heels of the Soviets at a distance.
Even the Polish Army Airforce had been restrained against attacking Soviet ground elements though allowed to fight the Red Airforce should it appear; generally it didn't. The Polish airmen had an impressive tally counted – the Soviet pilots had just been too badly trained to inflict serious losses on the Poles but still suffering from losses incurred during almost a decade of on and off fighting the Japanese and occasionally the Chinese which had whithered down the core of the Red Airforce.
The Soviet Army emerging from Poland wasn't in the mood for fighting and that also counted the remaining in Russia; hence Beria had ordered the reliable units to attack and draw along the unwilling or at least as many as possible in the fight with the Finns – and Nordics.

Anatoly's nephew had been an officer of a surviving Guards Tank Brigade – they had been annihilated by the Finns in the forests and swamps. The Finns had a new weapon an AT-gun carried by the Infantry or on a tankette that took out every Tank it hit. His nephew's crew had recovered an unexploded shell from one tank hit but carrying it off it had exploded and killed his crew. He had been sent back to train new crews but knew better and Anatoly understood.
Total and utter defeat.
Norwegian and Swedish Brigades in the North; Motorized Danish Brigade in South as a Strategic Reserve; Fighter Squadrons from every Nordic nation to boost Air defences which tured out a major asset to Finnish defences.
The Swedes and Norwegians had been just as deadly in the snow as had the Finns.
The Danes had Tanks the size of a T-34 but with a lower silhuette and a large gun that had killed anything it shot at (exagerration by Russian Infantry but then it was war).

[575]

December 1945 (excerpt from pseudonym Anatoly's book: The Third Russian Revolution of the 20. Century)
Poland had been warned by everybody of entering the Russian Civil War but had entered anyway and had been kicked out. They had probably forgotten that the Russian/Soviet Army had an impressive reputation of fighting defensively on home turf; except 1921 against the Poles but then the Red Army had fled defeat in Poland. This time the Soviet Army that had walked off Poland had turned around to face them off; and did because they could do a levee en masse – and did. It wasn't for the sake of the Sovietunion but for Rodina. The Russians joined up; having kicked the Poles out they went back home.
The Provisional Belarus and Ukrainian Governments had negotiated a Peace Treaty with the Poles on status quo ante following the Polish defeat and retreat. The Poles had overlooked their own Army had taken large casualties during the fight in Poland; the Ukrainians deserted their units and the Tank forces had been spent.

Finland had negotiated a Peace Treaty on status quo ante with the Novgorod Republic with which the War ended but of course the Russian Civil War continued – in the course of the first civil war; trains – Infantry and Cavalry though some Motorized units were active in the Caucasus and southern Steppe.
The Sovietunion had collapsed.

Anatoly's nephew had returned to visiting him; now a Colonel with the Novgorod Republics Armed Forces.
The nephew had told only little of the Civil War but Anatoly understood that some Generals in the Finland Operations had seen his nephews abilities and kept him back for better use once the Sovietunion had collapsed.
His nephew had decided to stay out of politics and opted for retaining his command of an Infantry Division. Anatoly agreed to let his nephew call him “Dad” as his own had been killed during the Civil War.

[stevep]

Nov 19, 2022 9:14:39 GMT 575 said:

December 1945 (excerpt from pseudonym Anatoly's book: The Third Russian Revolution of the 20. Century)
Poland had been warned by everybody of entering the Russian Civil War but had entered anyway and had been kicked out. They had probably forgotten that the Russian/Soviet Army had an impressive reputation of fighting defensively on home turf; except 1921 against the Poles but then the Red Army had fled defeat in Poland. This time the Soviet Army that had walked off Poland had turned around to face them off; and did because they could do a levee en masse – and did. It wasn't for the sake of the Sovietunion but for Rodina. The Russians joined up; having kicked the Poles out they went back home.
The Provisional Belarus and Ukrainian Governments had negotiated a Peace Treaty with the Poles on status quo ante following the Polish defeat and retreat. The Poles had overlooked their own Army had taken large casualties during the fight in Poland; the Ukrainians deserted their units and the Tank forces had been spent.

Finland had negotiated a Peace Treaty on status quo ante with the Novgorod Republic with which the War ended but of course the Russian Civil War continued – in the course of the first civil war; trains – Infantry and Cavalry though some Motorized units were active in the Caucasus and southern Steppe.
The Sovietunion had collapsed.

Anatoly's nephew had returned to visiting him; now a Colonel with the Novgorod Republics Armed Forces.
The nephew had told only little of the Civil War but Anatoly understood that some Generals in the Finland Operations had seen his nephews abilities and kept him back for better use once the Sovietunion had collapsed.
His nephew had decided to stay out of politics and opted for retaining his command of an Infantry Division. Anatoly agreed to let his nephew call him “Dad” as his own had been killed during the Civil War.

  Well that's a blast from the past as that entity hasn't existed for centuries and in the past was vulnerable because it relied on food imports to stay in existence.  Interesting that such a state is naming itself and presumably using Novgorod as its capital rather that St Petersburg/Leningrad which baring a massive humanitarian disaster is a far larger centre with a long history as a capital and also a better geographical position. 

  I doubt such republics would survive in anything but the short term as the Russian identity and desire for unity is very strong but have to see what comes up.  Could see Ukraine survive, especially if it gets some support from the west - although its likely to have border tensions with Poland at the least.

  Sounds like Beria's gamble backfired badly for him.

[575]

Nov 19, 2022 11:20:29 GMT stevep said:

Nov 19, 2022 9:14:39 GMT 575 said:

December 1945 (excerpt from pseudonym Anatoly's book: The Third Russian Revolution of the 20. Century)
Poland had been warned by everybody of entering the Russian Civil War but had entered anyway and had been kicked out. They had probably forgotten that the Russian/Soviet Army had an impressive reputation of fighting defensively on home turf; except 1921 against the Poles but then the Red Army had fled defeat in Poland. This time the Soviet Army that had walked off Poland had turned around to face them off; and did because they could do a levee en masse – and did. It wasn't for the sake of the Sovietunion but for Rodina. The Russians joined up; having kicked the Poles out they went back home.
The Provisional Belarus and Ukrainian Governments had negotiated a Peace Treaty with the Poles on status quo ante following the Polish defeat and retreat. The Poles had overlooked their own Army had taken large casualties during the fight in Poland; the Ukrainians deserted their units and the Tank forces had been spent.

Finland had negotiated a Peace Treaty on status quo ante with the Novgorod Republic with which the War ended but of course the Russian Civil War continued – in the course of the first civil war; trains – Infantry and Cavalry though some Motorized units were active in the Caucasus and southern Steppe.
The Sovietunion had collapsed.

Anatoly's nephew had returned to visiting him; now a Colonel with the Novgorod Republics Armed Forces.
The nephew had told only little of the Civil War but Anatoly understood that some Generals in the Finland Operations had seen his nephews abilities and kept him back for better use once the Sovietunion had collapsed.
His nephew had decided to stay out of politics and opted for retaining his command of an Infantry Division. Anatoly agreed to let his nephew call him “Dad” as his own had been killed during the Civil War.

  Well that's a blast from the past as that entity hasn't existed for centuries and in the past was vulnerable because it relied on food imports to stay in existence.  Interesting that such a state is naming itself and presumably using Novgorod as its capital rather that St Petersburg/Leningrad which baring a massive humanitarian disaster is a far larger centre with a long history as a capital and also a better geographical position. 

  I doubt such republics would survive in anything but the short term as the Russian identity and desire for unity is very strong but have to see what comes up.  Could see Ukraine survive, especially if it gets some support from the west - although its likely to have border tensions with Poland at the least.

  Sounds like Beria's gamble backfired badly for him.

Well the Russian/Soviet collapse is going on somethime still.

I decided not to go into too much detail with the current successorstates in the former SU - some will take names to differentiate as much as possible from the past though others stick to their past - more on this soon.

The Ukrainians and Poles may very well have a go at each other over Lvov area oil though I'm still pondering the outcome of this.

Beria's gamble was a disaster though Zhukov also perished in the collapse.