Sub Briefs or what every armchair sub-driver should know.

[miletus12]

What did the RAN choose for their nuclear submarine?

===============================================================================

We are going to sell 3 Virginia class boats to Australia. That will be around 2030. Then the Australians and British will share a common design submarine for the RN and RAN. Who will design it? I frankly doubt that the British, based on their known troubled submarine history, are able to design a decent boat at all, so that means it will be an American designed boat; not British. The British will build maybe 5 and the Australians will build an unknown number of these "British" boats.

==============================================================================

Despite the claim that the Australian boats will not field "special munitions", there is no way at all that the subs will be guaranteed not to be able to carry the "special munitions". I expect missile tube modules. Missiles (HGVs) can carry conventional explosive packages, or special packages. There would be no way to distinguish. The only way to guarantee non-special munitions is to allow physical inspections.

[miletus12]

More AUKUS squawkus...



The situation is not what I originally thought.

[miletus12]

AUKUS investments.



a. Australia invests 5 billion dollars US in naval base infrastructure.
b. AUKUS boats bought and built by Australia will be owned by Australia, according to Doctor Davis.
c. Potentially 6 or 7 Virginia boats for Australia. Hopw will these be manned?

==============================================================================

Northeast Asia head-knocker exercise to remind the DPRK that they are not going to be allowed. The DPRK fired two ballistic missiles and tested out a new robot drone and tested two cruise new cruise missiles.

Tour of USS Nimitz.

Russia has been busy in the Sea of Japan firing missiles SSN-22 from a pair of Tarantul. The presenter exaggerates the threat from these oversized speed boats with those cold war era junk missiles.

[miletus12]

(^^^) 60 hour endurance shore attack weapon. Pure manure. It showed no guidance, and it showed no endurance as claimed by those liars.
(^^^) Cruise missile is a clone of a Russian clone of a Tomahawk.
(^^^) Whiskey class sub can fire a 2400 km range ballistic missile.

Nothing new here. Same clowns different days.

[miletus12]

1. The presenter is a sonarman, not a submarine subject expert.
2. The idiots who designed the submarine were NOT certified marine system design engineers and technicians.
3. The CEO criminal of this company is liable for the deaths that he caused.

[miletus12]

They are dead.

Missing Titanic submersible live updates: All passengers believed to be lost
9m ago

All passengers are believed to be lost after a desperate dayslong search for a submersible carrying five people vanished while on a tour of the Titanic wreckage off the coast of Newfoundland, Canada.

The 21-foot deep-sea vessel, operated by OceanGate Expeditions, lost contact about an hour and 45 minutes after submerging on Sunday morning with a 96-hour oxygen supply. That amount of breathable air was forecast to run out on Thursday morning, according to the United States Coast Guard, which is coordinating the multinational search and rescue efforts.

Titanic tourist submersible goes missing.



Latest Developments
Jun 22, 3:04 PM
Debris consistent with 'catastrophic loss of the pressure chamber'
Coast Guard officials said a remote-operated vehicle found the tail cone of the Titan submersible about 1,600 feet from the bow of the Titanic Thursday morning.

Additional debris found was "consistent with the catastrophic loss of the pressure chamber," Rear Adm. John Mauger, the First Coast Guard District commander, said during a press briefing.

The passengers' families were immediately notified.



This photo combo shows from left, Shahzada Dawood, Suleman Dawood, Paul-Henry Nargeolet, Stockton Rush, and Hamish Harding were aboard a small submersible that went missing in the Atlantic Ocean.
© FILE via AP

We will have to await the admiralty court of inquiry. IF it is the US jurisdiction, from the preliminaries I* have read, then somebody could go to jail over this tragedy.

M.

[miletus12]

Jun 22, 2023 21:46:05 GMT stevep said:

Jun 22, 2023 19:18:55 GMT miletus12 said:

They are dead.

We will have to await the admiralty court of inquiry. IF it is the US jurisdiction, from the preliminaries I* have read, then somebody could go to jail over this tragedy.

M.

  Well to be honest I think its been expected pretty much from the start they were probably dead.

  Is your assumption of US jurisdiction because the company was registered in the US or something as the nearest country to the death point is Canada?

The lead investigator tends to assume national jurisdiction. I put this news item in this thread because I assume it will be Canada who will be handed this manure sandwich, and because most of the interest parties, who will be suing for justice, are British citizens.

The company is based out of the state of Washington, the idiot (who died) chiefly responsible is an American and the survivor who will be sued is this idiot.  

 ======================================================

Now what follows is my personal opinion and is most unpopular with my "woke" friends.

If you are a progressive and want to improve society, you can allow some slippage in professional competency when it comes to unimportant technical stuff, like social sciences, fashion design, or popular entertainment. Balance, equity of outcome and improvement of representation among all classes in the Marxist sense of equal outcomes is allowable for social justice. Self-esteem boosting can be a metric for hiring as long as the incompetent people hired to fill out the diversity chart are not allowed near the important stuff in even those "soft sciences".

But when it comes to life and death engineering, you do not go "woke". You cannot. You have to hire and KEEP the best in the world. And unfortunately, for those who want "equity", the best in the world for submarines, majorly look like these Anglo-Saxon Cromagnans.


David Lockridge

Not like this idiot.


Erika (Montague) Heine
 
Who pushed the carbon-fiber and plexiglass designed Titan to be built the way it was.  



     

[miletus12]

Well, that was stupid.

U.S. Navy Heard What It Believed Was Titan Implosion Days Ago
Underwater microphones designed to detect enemy submarines first detected Titan tragedy

By Ben Kesling, Nancy A. Youssef, Gordon Lubold and Costas Paris

Updated June 22, 2023 7:15 pm ET

The U.S. Coast Guard on Thursday said all five passengers aboard a missing submersible were believed to be dead after a remote vehicle found debris near the Titanic shipwreck. Photo: OceanGate Expeditions/AFP/Getty Images
A top secret military acoustic detection system designed to spot enemy submarines first heard what the U.S. Navy suspected was the Titan submersible implosion hours after the submersible began its voyage, officials involved in the search said.

The Navy began listening for the Titan almost as soon as the sub lost communications, according to a U.S. defense official. Shortly after its disappearance Sunday, the U.S. system detected what it suspected was the sound of an implosion near the debris site discovered Thursday and reported its findings to the Coast Guard commander on site, U.S. defense officials said.

While the Navy couldn’t say definitively the sound came from the Titan, the discovery played a role in narrowing the scope of the search for the vessel before its debris was discovered Thursday, the officials said.

“The U.S. Navy conducted an analysis of acoustic data and detected an anomaly consistent with an implosion or explosion in the general vicinity of where the Titan submersible was operating when communications were lost,” a senior U.S. Navy official told The Wall Street Journal in a statement. “While not definitive, this information was immediately shared with the Incident Commander to assist with the ongoing search and rescue mission.”

The Navy asked that the specific system used not be named, citing national security concerns. It is normally used to detect enemy submarines.

The U.S. Navy typically deals with foreign threats using military capabilities. The U.S. Coast Guard typically carries out search-and-rescue operations and handles other matters directly related to security of the country. The two services often operate together due to their mutual maritime missions. The search for the Titan was conducted roughly 900 miles off the coast of Massachusetts.

Searchers found debris from the submersible roughly 1,600 feet from the bow of the Titanic wreckage, the U.S. Coast Guard said. Canadian, U.S. and French ships were part of the search.

The Coast Guard didn’t immediately respond to requests for comment about what information it received and how it was used.

Throughout the search, rescue crews detected several types of noises, U.S. and Canadian officials said, including the one suspected of being the sub’s implosion. An underwater implosion is the sudden collapse of a submarine when the tremendous pressure of the seawater overpowers the pressure inside the vessel and crushes it.

Officials leading the search also said they heard sounds similar to knocking from the vessel, but said they couldn’t conclude the noises came from the Titan.

Officials decided “to continue our mission as a search and rescue and make every effort to save the lives on board,” the U.S. Navy statement said.

It was unclear what other factors narrowed the search area, which eventually grew to twice the size of Connecticut. But a U.S. defense official said “the analysis of the acoustic data was a significant factor in scoping the search area, and thereby enabling the assets on scene to locate the degree of the debris field.”

The U.S. is expected to conduct an investigation to try to determine whether the sound definitely came from the Titan, but what government entity would carry out the probe—and any time frame for completing it—remains unclear, a U.S. defense official said.

The U.S. developed its acoustic systems after World War II to detect enemy submarines operating in the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans.

The Navy said it shared its findings Sunday with the Coast Guard, which led the search, U.S. defense officials said. The U.S. held off making public what noises it had detected because it wanted to ensure search-and-rescue operations continued and couldn’t say for sure it was an implosion.

“It looks that the Titan imploded on Sunday on its way down to the Titanic shortly after contact was lost at a depth of around 9,000 feet,” a person with direct knowledge of the matter said.

The five men onboard the missing submersible in the North Atlantic are believed to be dead, the U.S. Coast Guard and the company that operated the vessel said Thursday.

The sub’s disappearance had set off an urgent international search effort to find the its occupants alive.

The families were informed Thursday of the Navy’s findings when the search-and-rescue team discovered the debris field, according to a U.S. defense official.

The submersible had departed Sunday for what was supposed to be an hourslong excursion to the Titanic shipwreck, more than 2 miles below the ocean’s surface. Shortly after the voyage began, the sub lost contact with the outside world.

Write to Ben Kesling at [e-mail], Nancy A. Youssef at [e-mail], Gordon Lubold at [e-mail] and Costas Paris at [e-mail]

You do not tell the ENEMY what you can do.

[miletus12]

Who should have been breaking big rocks into little rocks?

Captain Wayne Hughes (He's dead, Jim. M.), and Vice Admiral Art Cebrowski (He's dead, too, Jim. M.).

[stevep]

Jun 22, 2023 23:20:18 GMT miletus12 said:

Well, that was stupid.

U.S. Navy Heard What It Believed Was Titan Implosion Days Ago
Underwater microphones designed to detect enemy submarines first detected Titan tragedy

By Ben Kesling, Nancy A. Youssef, Gordon Lubold and Costas Paris

Updated June 22, 2023 7:15 pm ET

The U.S. Coast Guard on Thursday said all five passengers aboard a missing submersible were believed to be dead after a remote vehicle found debris near the Titanic shipwreck. Photo: OceanGate Expeditions/AFP/Getty Images
A top secret military acoustic detection system designed to spot enemy submarines first heard what the U.S. Navy suspected was the Titan submersible implosion hours after the submersible began its voyage, officials involved in the search said.

The Navy began listening for the Titan almost as soon as the sub lost communications, according to a U.S. defense official. Shortly after its disappearance Sunday, the U.S. system detected what it suspected was the sound of an implosion near the debris site discovered Thursday and reported its findings to the Coast Guard commander on site, U.S. defense officials said.

While the Navy couldn’t say definitively the sound came from the Titan, the discovery played a role in narrowing the scope of the search for the vessel before its debris was discovered Thursday, the officials said.

“The U.S. Navy conducted an analysis of acoustic data and detected an anomaly consistent with an implosion or explosion in the general vicinity of where the Titan submersible was operating when communications were lost,” a senior U.S. Navy official told The Wall Street Journal in a statement. “While not definitive, this information was immediately shared with the Incident Commander to assist with the ongoing search and rescue mission.”

The Navy asked that the specific system used not be named, citing national security concerns. It is normally used to detect enemy submarines.

The U.S. Navy typically deals with foreign threats using military capabilities. The U.S. Coast Guard typically carries out search-and-rescue operations and handles other matters directly related to security of the country. The two services often operate together due to their mutual maritime missions. The search for the Titan was conducted roughly 900 miles off the coast of Massachusetts.

Searchers found debris from the submersible roughly 1,600 feet from the bow of the Titanic wreckage, the U.S. Coast Guard said. Canadian, U.S. and French ships were part of the search.

The Coast Guard didn’t immediately respond to requests for comment about what information it received and how it was used.

Throughout the search, rescue crews detected several types of noises, U.S. and Canadian officials said, including the one suspected of being the sub’s implosion. An underwater implosion is the sudden collapse of a submarine when the tremendous pressure of the seawater overpowers the pressure inside the vessel and crushes it.

Officials leading the search also said they heard sounds similar to knocking from the vessel, but said they couldn’t conclude the noises came from the Titan.

Officials decided “to continue our mission as a search and rescue and make every effort to save the lives on board,” the U.S. Navy statement said.

It was unclear what other factors narrowed the search area, which eventually grew to twice the size of Connecticut. But a U.S. defense official said “the analysis of the acoustic data was a significant factor in scoping the search area, and thereby enabling the assets on scene to locate the degree of the debris field.”

The U.S. is expected to conduct an investigation to try to determine whether the sound definitely came from the Titan, but what government entity would carry out the probe—and any time frame for completing it—remains unclear, a U.S. defense official said.

The U.S. developed its acoustic systems after World War II to detect enemy submarines operating in the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans.

The Navy said it shared its findings Sunday with the Coast Guard, which led the search, U.S. defense officials said. The U.S. held off making public what noises it had detected because it wanted to ensure search-and-rescue operations continued and couldn’t say for sure it was an implosion.

“It looks that the Titan imploded on Sunday on its way down to the Titanic shortly after contact was lost at a depth of around 9,000 feet,” a person with direct knowledge of the matter said.

The five men onboard the missing submersible in the North Atlantic are believed to be dead, the U.S. Coast Guard and the company that operated the vessel said Thursday.

The sub’s disappearance had set off an urgent international search effort to find the its occupants alive.

The families were informed Thursday of the Navy’s findings when the search-and-rescue team discovered the debris field, according to a U.S. defense official.

The submersible had departed Sunday for what was supposed to be an hourslong excursion to the Titanic shipwreck, more than 2 miles below the ocean’s surface. Shortly after the voyage began, the sub lost contact with the outside world.

Write to Ben Kesling at [e-mail], Nancy A. Youssef at [e-mail], Gordon Lubold at [e-mail] and Costas Paris at [e-mail]

You do not tell the ENEMY what you can do.

  So it sounds like the USN at least suspected that the crew were dead back on Sunday.  Its unclear whether/when they passed that to the US Coast Guard and strange that the info was only made public now.  We don't really know any details of the facts as to how certain or not the USN were that the disaster was complete on Sunday.

  They haven't actually given anyone what they can do.  Just given a vague reference to what is possible.  Which can deter as much as encourage as it will leave the rest of the world guessing although some nations might be told more.

[miletus12]

Jun 23, 2023 10:48:32 GMT stevep said:

Jun 22, 2023 23:20:18 GMT miletus12 said:

Well, that was stupid.

You do not tell the ENEMY what you can do.

  So it sounds like the USN at least suspected that the crew were dead back on Sunday.  Its unclear whether/when they passed that to the US Coast Guard and strange that the info was only made public now.  We don't really know any details of the facts as to how certain or not the USN were that the disaster was complete on Sunday.

  They haven't actually given anyone what they can do.  Just given a vague reference to what is possible.  Which can deter as much as encourage as it will leave the rest of the world guessing although some nations might be told more.

1. They have revealed that they have sensors that can hear a beer can implode 900 miles away from Boston three miles underwater and PINPOINT its location within a kilometer of a known wreck site in an environment where noise is so loud, that you need some fancy noise library filters to discriminate between biologicals and mechanicals. 
2. The USCG used that triangulation to start their visual search; which is how they found the wreck so quickly and certainly.

[stevep]

Jun 23, 2023 11:25:54 GMT miletus12 said:

Jun 23, 2023 10:48:32 GMT stevep said:

  So it sounds like the USN at least suspected that the crew were dead back on Sunday.  Its unclear whether/when they passed that to the US Coast Guard and strange that the info was only made public now.  We don't really know any details of the facts as to how certain or not the USN were that the disaster was complete on Sunday.

  They haven't actually given anyone what they can do.  Just given a vague reference to what is possible.  Which can deter as much as encourage as it will leave the rest of the world guessing although some nations might be told more.

1. They have revealed that they have sensors that can hear a beer can implode 900 miles away from Boston three miles underwater and PINPOINT its location within a kilometer of a known wreck site in an environment where noise is so loud, that you need some fancy noise library filters to discriminate between biologicals and mechanicals. 
2. The USCG used that triangulation to start their visual search; which is how they found the wreck so quickly and certainly.

  They have revealed they heard something that may have been a submersible imploding.  That its ~900 miles from Boston is pretty much irrelevant as the location and nature of the sensors is obviously left unclear.

  What an enemy doesn't know is how accurate the statement is and also if largely accurate how easily or not far within the parameters of the US system it was.  The latter is important because if that assumed enemy decides the information is accurate and want to make any of their systems secure from detection they have a maximum 'noise' level they need to get under but have no reliable information on what minimum value they need to reach.

  Its quite possible, given the delay before announcing this detection, that its a deliberate false trail to make any enemies waste a lot of time and resources trying to make their equipment secure.  A bit like the wild goose chase Reagan sent the US on with his SDI programme.

[miletus12]

Jun 23, 2023 13:01:36 GMT stevep said:

Jun 23, 2023 11:25:54 GMT miletus12 said:

1. They have revealed that they have sensors that can hear a beer can implode 900 miles away from Boston three miles underwater and PINPOINT its location within a kilometer of a known wreck site in an environment where noise is so loud, that you need some fancy noise library filters to discriminate between biologicals and mechanicals. 
2. The USCG used that triangulation to start their visual search; which is how they found the wreck so quickly and certainly.

  They have revealed they heard something that may have been a submersible imploding.  That its ~900 miles from Boston is pretty much irrelevant as the location and nature of the sensors is obviously left unclear.

  What an enemy doesn't know is how accurate the statement is and also if largely accurate how easily or not far within the parameters of the US system it was.  The latter is important because if that assumed enemy decides the information is accurate and want to make any of their systems secure from detection they have a maximum 'noise' level they need to get under but have no reliable information on what minimum value they need to reach.

  Its quite possible, given the delay before announcing this detection, that its a deliberate false trail to make any enemies waste a lot of time and resources trying to make their equipment secure.  A bit like the wild goose chase Reagan sent the US on with his SDI programme.

How much do you know about SURTASS?

Or to put it yet another way, when the Kursk torpedo detonation occurred and that submarine sank, the USGS heard it all along the US eastern seaboard. It was thought at the time that one of ours had been attacked. We did not know it was an Oscar, until the Russians confessed.    

[stevep]

Jun 23, 2023 13:43:24 GMT miletus12 said:

Jun 23, 2023 13:01:36 GMT stevep said:

  They have revealed they heard something that may have been a submersible imploding.  That its ~900 miles from Boston is pretty much irrelevant as the location and nature of the sensors is obviously left unclear.

  What an enemy doesn't know is how accurate the statement is and also if largely accurate how easily or not far within the parameters of the US system it was.  The latter is important because if that assumed enemy decides the information is accurate and want to make any of their systems secure from detection they have a maximum 'noise' level they need to get under but have no reliable information on what minimum value they need to reach.

  Its quite possible, given the delay before announcing this detection, that its a deliberate false trail to make any enemies waste a lot of time and resources trying to make their equipment secure.  A bit like the wild goose chase Reagan sent the US on with his SDI programme.

How much do you know about SURTASS?

Or to put it yet another way, when the Kursk torpedo detonation occurred and that submarine sank, the USGS heard it all along the US eastern seaboard. It was thought at the time that one of ours had been attacked. We did not know it was an Oscar, until the Russians confessed.    

  Not technical details but then I don't need to.  My point is that any such 'leak' of information as you suggest in the present case - unless it is a capacity that they already believe the USN already has - is a problem for the suggested enemy state/s.

[miletus12]

Jun 23, 2023 14:27:58 GMT stevep said:

Jun 23, 2023 13:43:24 GMT miletus12 said:

How much do you know about SURTASS?

Or to put it yet another way, when the Kursk torpedo detonation occurred and that submarine sank, the USGS heard it all along the US eastern seaboard. It was thought at the time that one of ours had been attacked. We did not know it was an Oscar, until the Russians confessed.    

  Not technical details but then I don't need to.  My point is that any such 'leak' of information as you suggest in the present case - unless it is a capacity that they already believe the USN already has - is a problem for the suggested enemy state/s.

You should be aware that any information that confirms limits and characteristics is valuable to an enemy. We should not have revealed that we could track  submarines by seismograph in 2000 but not identify them. This latest mistake allows the Chinese to figure out threshold detection sensitivity and how to defeat it.