Frivolous ASB thread

[lordroel]

Dec 14, 2019 1:40:18 GMT Zyobot said:

'All Potato Chips Become Potatoes'. I have a real inclination towards potato-related ASB scenarios, I'm not sure why.

Well that puts some companies who make Potato Chips out of business.

[Zyobot]

Dec 14, 2019 7:58:25 GMT lordroel said:

Dec 14, 2019 1:40:18 GMT Zyobot said:

'All Potato Chips Become Potatoes'. I have a real inclination towards potato-related ASB scenarios, I'm not sure why.

Well that puts some companies who make Potato Chips out of business.

Unfortunately. Those firms that are able to stay afloat might switch to producing fry-like snacks or something. I’d guess that factories need retooling in any case, but maybe much less if they produce something similar to potato chips.

[lordroel]

What if, on June 22 1941, all German and Soviet weapons are replaced with their World War I versions.

[Zyobot]

Dec 14, 2019 15:05:07 GMT lordroel said:

What if, on June 22 1941, all German and Soviet weapons are replaced with their World War I versions.

Well, I’m hoping that the war becomes less devastating with less efficient small arms, less advanced tanks, no bombers, etcetera. But then I fear that both sides will get bogged down in trench warfare reminiscent of World War One, which could still be Hell in of itself. Especially because both sides are consumed by murderous hatred for one another, whereas I’m guessing that the Great War factions—though they were enemies and as such did horrible things to one another—still saw one another as people.

[lordroel]

What if all democracies on Earth become dictatorships and all dictatorship become democracies.

[Zyobot]

Dec 14, 2019 21:17:27 GMT lordroel said:

What if all democracies on Earth become dictatorships and all dictatorship become democracies.

Well, on the bright side, we now have a liberal-democratic and hopefully capitalistic China on the rise.

The downside, though, is that America—being the world’s sole superpower—has just become a dictatorship. As has its close allies in Western Europe and the Asia-Pacific.

[lordroel]

Dec 14, 2019 21:23:23 GMT Zyobot said:

Dec 14, 2019 21:17:27 GMT lordroel said:

What if all democracies on Earth become dictatorships and all dictatorship become democracies.

Well, on the bright side, we now have a liberal-democratic and hopefully capitalistic China on the rise.

The downside, though, is that America—being the world’s sole superpower—has just become a dictatorship. As has its close allies in Western Europe and the Asia-Pacific.

Belarus is a democracy, North Korea is a super democracy, what about Russia, can we call it a dictatorship.

[Zyobot]

Dec 14, 2019 21:29:50 GMT lordroel said:

Dec 14, 2019 21:23:23 GMT Zyobot said:

Well, on the bright side, we now have a liberal-democratic and hopefully capitalistic China on the rise.

The downside, though, is that America—being the world’s sole superpower—has just become a dictatorship. As has its close allies in Western Europe and the Asia-Pacific.

Belarus is a democracy, North Korea is a super democracy, what about Russia, can we call it a dictatorship.

Since it’s technically a democracy (though more on the authoritarian side with Putin in charge), I suppose so. I wonder, could the inevitable rivalry between Russia and China set off outright conflict—maybe even World War Three?

[lordroel]

Dec 14, 2019 21:50:35 GMT Zyobot said:

Dec 14, 2019 21:29:50 GMT lordroel said:

Belarus is a democracy, North Korea is a super democracy, what about Russia, can we call it a dictatorship.

Since it’s technically a democracy (though more on the authoritarian side with Putin in charge), I suppose so. I wonder, could the inevitable rivalry between Russia and China set off outright conflict—maybe even World War Three?

With the dictatorships outranking democracies, we are going to see a lot of wars.

[stevep]

Dec 14, 2019 15:05:07 GMT lordroel said:

What if, on June 22 1941, all German and Soviet weapons are replaced with their World War I versions.

  Well that screws the German blitzkrieg.  Could be a much shorter WWII although quite possibly with much more of Europe ending up under Soviet control. - although another thought below on this!

  A lot might depend on the details.  Assuming that background industry isn't changed so they can still produce WWII weapons then they will enter service over the next few months but with its much greater production capacity and the lack of a need to move so much of its industry the Soviets should have the upper hand despite the mess their forces are in this period.  Simply the lack of most/all its motorised equipment and a/c would be crippling for Germany when its trying to storm its way deep into the Soviet Union.

  At what date in WWI are we talking about?  If near/at the start neither side have any armour or real motorised vehicles let alone units while a/c are extremely primitive.  If say 11-11-18 then Germany will have tanks and a/c in considerable numbers albeit primitive compared to 1941, especially the German tanks which were very large and cumbersome even if now in 22-6-41 numbers.  Soviet forces would be in a real mess due to the revolution and then Lenin's coup and the resulting disorder so they could have little/no a/c and not sure if they would have any armour at all.

  The other question is since this refers to German and Soviet forces then it means that other combatants are not affected.  In which case Romanian, Finnish, Hungarian and Italian forces on the eastern front have now become a lot more powerful in relative terms as they do have fairly modern armour, a/c, artillery etc.  Ironically for Finland if they get to keep them they have a fair number of captured Soviet tanks from the Winter War which might be very effective until the Soviets get new production in service.

  Similarly Britain's position is greatly increased.  German forces are now from 1918 at the latest so we have a huge technological advantage.  Their U boats will be a lot less effective while their surface warships will now be 1918 coal burners.  Too late to save the Hood but Tirpitz would be at best a Baden class BB and the twins would be say Lutzow class BCs from WWI, both a lot slower and with no radar, coal fired etc.  In the air BC could once Britain realised what had happened even revert to daytime raids as the German a/c would be able to do very little or nothing to stop it and could then possibly do a hell of a lot of damage.  Ditto in Libya while the Italians are unaffected the Afrika Corp are now deprived of competent tanks [having lumbering A7V ] and they have very little in the way of AT guns and no motorised transport or AA guns and very primitive a/c. 

  Its probably too much to hope for a quick British landing in France as it simply doesn't have the military strength at the moment.  However you could see a decisive victory in N Africa very quickly and possibly say a liberation of Norway given what would happen in terms of the defensive strength of the German occupying garrison.  Also such a sudden change in the military strength might mean Japan pauses about driving south.  Although it might try attacking the Soviets which would be bad for them in the short term but Japan is so far from anything really important for the Soviets and wouldn't themselves have the strength to occupy more than most of the Pacific region of the Soviet empire.  In doing so they would cut off L-L via this route but would tie themselves down greatly in an atrictional conflict they can't win and reduce probably fatally the strength of forces available for a drive south.

  Anyway a very interesting idea with a lot of potential perturbations.

[lordroel]

Dec 15, 2019 11:05:48 GMT stevep said:

Dec 14, 2019 15:05:07 GMT lordroel said:

What if, on June 22 1941, all German and Soviet weapons are replaced with their World War I versions.

  Well that screws the German blitzkrieg.  Could be a much shorter WWII although quite possibly with much more of Europe ending up under Soviet control. - although another thought below on this!

  A lot might depend on the details.  Assuming that background industry isn't changed so they can still produce WWII weapons then they will enter service over the next few months but with its much greater production capacity and the lack of a need to move so much of its industry the Soviets should have the upper hand despite the mess their forces are in this period.  Simply the lack of most/all its motorised equipment and a/c would be crippling for Germany when its trying to storm its way deep into the Soviet Union.

  At what date in WWI are we talking about?  If near/at the start neither side have any armour or real motorised vehicles let alone units while a/c are extremely primitive.  If say 11-11-18 then Germany will have tanks and a/c in considerable numbers albeit primitive compared to 1941, especially the German tanks which were very large and cumbersome even if now in 22-6-41 numbers.  Soviet forces would be in a real mess due to the revolution and then Lenin's coup and the resulting disorder so they could have little/no a/c and not sure if they would have any armour at all.

  The other question is since this refers to German and Soviet forces then it means that other combatants are not affected.  In which case Romanian, Finnish, Hungarian and Italian forces on the eastern front have now become a lot more powerful in relative terms as they do have fairly modern armour, a/c, artillery etc.  Ironically for Finland if they get to keep them they have a fair number of captured Soviet tanks from the Winter War which might be very effective until the Soviets get new production in service.

  Similarly Britain's position is greatly increased.  German forces are now from 1918 at the latest so we have a huge technological advantage.  Their U boats will be a lot less effective while their surface warships will now be 1918 coal burners.  Too late to save the Hood but Tirpitz would be at best a Baden class BB and the twins would be say Lutzow class BCs from WWI, both a lot slower and with no radar, coal fired etc.  In the air BC could once Britain realised what had happened even revert to daytime raids as the German a/c would be able to do very little or nothing to stop it and could then possibly do a hell of a lot of damage.  Ditto in Libya while the Italians are unaffected the Afrika Corp are now deprived of competent tanks [having lumbering A7V ] and they have very little in the way of AT guns and no motorised transport or AA guns and very primitive a/c. 

  Its probably too much to hope for a quick British landing in France as it simply doesn't have the military strength at the moment.  However you could see a decisive victory in N Africa very quickly and possibly say a liberation of Norway given what would happen in terms of the defensive strength of the German occupying garrison.  Also such a sudden change in the military strength might mean Japan pauses about driving south.  Although it might try attacking the Soviets which would be bad for them in the short term but Japan is so far from anything really important for the Soviets and wouldn't themselves have the strength to occupy more than most of the Pacific region of the Soviet empire.  In doing so they would cut off L-L via this route but would tie themselves down greatly in an atrictional conflict they can't win and reduce probably fatally the strength of forces available for a drive south.

  Anyway a very interesting idea with a lot of potential perturbations.

The Germans get the hands on the mighty A7Vs, a lot of former Beutepanzers (former  British Mark IVs) and even Leichter Kampfwagen II and Sturmpanzerwagen Oberschlesien, and maybe some K-wagens as well.

[stevep]

Dec 15, 2019 11:33:57 GMT lordroel said:

Dec 15, 2019 11:05:48 GMT stevep said:

  Well that screws the German blitzkrieg.  Could be a much shorter WWII although quite possibly with much more of Europe ending up under Soviet control. - although another thought below on this!

  A lot might depend on the details.  Assuming that background industry isn't changed so they can still produce WWII weapons then they will enter service over the next few months but with its much greater production capacity and the lack of a need to move so much of its industry the Soviets should have the upper hand despite the mess their forces are in this period.  Simply the lack of most/all its motorised equipment and a/c would be crippling for Germany when its trying to storm its way deep into the Soviet Union.

  At what date in WWI are we talking about?  If near/at the start neither side have any armour or real motorised vehicles let alone units while a/c are extremely primitive.  If say 11-11-18 then Germany will have tanks and a/c in considerable numbers albeit primitive compared to 1941, especially the German tanks which were very large and cumbersome even if now in 22-6-41 numbers.  Soviet forces would be in a real mess due to the revolution and then Lenin's coup and the resulting disorder so they could have little/no a/c and not sure if they would have any armour at all.

  The other question is since this refers to German and Soviet forces then it means that other combatants are not affected.  In which case Romanian, Finnish, Hungarian and Italian forces on the eastern front have now become a lot more powerful in relative terms as they do have fairly modern armour, a/c, artillery etc.  Ironically for Finland if they get to keep them they have a fair number of captured Soviet tanks from the Winter War which might be very effective until the Soviets get new production in service.

  Similarly Britain's position is greatly increased.  German forces are now from 1918 at the latest so we have a huge technological advantage.  Their U boats will be a lot less effective while their surface warships will now be 1918 coal burners.  Too late to save the Hood but Tirpitz would be at best a Baden class BB and the twins would be say Lutzow class BCs from WWI, both a lot slower and with no radar, coal fired etc.  In the air BC could once Britain realised what had happened even revert to daytime raids as the German a/c would be able to do very little or nothing to stop it and could then possibly do a hell of a lot of damage.  Ditto in Libya while the Italians are unaffected the Afrika Corp are now deprived of competent tanks [having lumbering A7V ] and they have very little in the way of AT guns and no motorised transport or AA guns and very primitive a/c. 

  Its probably too much to hope for a quick British landing in France as it simply doesn't have the military strength at the moment.  However you could see a decisive victory in N Africa very quickly and possibly say a liberation of Norway given what would happen in terms of the defensive strength of the German occupying garrison.  Also such a sudden change in the military strength might mean Japan pauses about driving south.  Although it might try attacking the Soviets which would be bad for them in the short term but Japan is so far from anything really important for the Soviets and wouldn't themselves have the strength to occupy more than most of the Pacific region of the Soviet empire.  In doing so they would cut off L-L via this route but would tie themselves down greatly in an atrictional conflict they can't win and reduce probably fatally the strength of forces available for a drive south.

  Anyway a very interesting idea with a lot of potential perturbations.

The Germans get the hands on the mighty A7Vs, a lot of former Beutepanzers (former  British Mark IVs) and even Leichter Kampfwagen II and Sturmpanzerwagen Oberschlesien, and maybe some K-wagens as well.

  Yes but given their speed and [un]reliability their not going to get very far very fast and their sheer size will make them fairly easy targets once the Soviets get some AT guns or their own modern tanks start entering service again.  Also those WWI designs had large crews, 18 men for the A7V's so operating them is going to be a pig.  If they get such tanks replacing all panzers on a 1 for 1 basis they will need something like 4 times as many men simply to man them.  Not to mention the problems of supporting and servicing them, especially since they will be pretty much unknown to the WWII army and do they have any WWI spare parts coming with them?

[lordroel]

Dec 15, 2019 12:36:26 GMT stevep said:

Dec 15, 2019 11:33:57 GMT lordroel said:

The Germans get the hands on the mighty A7Vs, a lot of former Beutepanzers (former  British Mark IVs) and even Leichter Kampfwagen II and Sturmpanzerwagen Oberschlesien, and maybe some K-wagens as well.

  Yes but given their speed and [un]reliability their not going to get very far very fast and their sheer size will make them fairly easy targets once the Soviets get some AT guns or their own modern tanks start entering service again.  Also those WWI designs had large crews, 18 men for the A7V's so operating them is going to be a pig.  If they get such tanks replacing all panzers on a 1 for 1 basis they will need something like 4 times as many men simply to man them.  Not to mention the problems of supporting and servicing them, especially since they will be pretty much unknown to the WWII army and do they have any WWI spare parts coming with them?

Well, then the race is one how quickly the Germans and Soviets can replace their WW I weapons.

[Zyobot]

'2004 Ronald Reagan SI To 1914 Self'. It'd be rather cruel to send ninety-three-year-old Gipper to his three-year-old self, if you ask me.

[lordroel]

Dec 15, 2019 20:13:50 GMT Zyobot said:

'2004 Ronald Reagan SI To 1914 Self'. It'd be rather cruel to send ninety-three-year-old Gipper to his three-year-old self, if you ask me.

2004 Reagan suffered from Alzheimer, i think this is cruel to both his 2004 version and 3 year old version Zyobot.