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Post by Otto Kretschmer on May 12, 2024 12:17:43 GMT
Yes its a nice ORBAT - the civilian/infrastructur of Denmarks is actually more interesting:
Ammunition Arsenal still in operation - manufacturing munitions and reloading spent cases, North Sea oil and natural gas online, 2 Steel Works operating, 3 state icebreakers operational, 3 months use of essential means for running society in store, Railway rolling stock being produced locally. Storebælt/Great Bealt Bridge has begun building but not operational to trains till 1997, the year after to road traffic.
NATO Reforger depots in Jutland, NATO 40 years Anniversary this year - all three services training for large NATO exercises to be held during April 1989. Intelligence: listening stations in several places eavesdropping on WAPA in GDR and Poland as well as surveilling the depts in the Oeresound and two Bealts for moving ships/Submarines.
Prevent unification of Germany - possibly.
I wonder what range of antibiotics can 1989 Denmark produce? It'd be quite handy if it's a broad range - all would be very helpful in the world of 1864. So would be vaccines. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on May 12, 2024 14:58:23 GMT
a) I suspect there is a nasty chance this former might occur, Having this new state magically appearing and spreading news of a reformation that leads to large parts of Europe breaking with the Catholic church - and other nations minimizing its power and influence is going to give the papacy and its supporters kittens and I could easily see it calling for some sort of crusade against 'this demonic state and its evil ideas'. Not just on religion but also on political rights, democracy, women having a fair amount of rights etc. Of course such a crusade is likely to fail badly but you could see brutal suppression of the assorted Protestant populations in the unchanged parts of Europe.
b) Ah good. I wasn't sure what the situation was but knew there was still feudalism and forced labour in many places, such as France before the revolution and also have read that part of the reason Finland suffered badly in the last stages of the Great Northern War was because many people were carted off as slaves into Russia. - There is actually a possibility here that influence from Denmark39 could negate most of the OTL western slave trade with western Africa, although the Spanish empire will still want its forced labourers in the mines and the like in its empire while as plantations start being constructed for sugar, tobacco and the like as well.
In terms of Britain I know something because its my own state and I'm interested in history. Less aware of events in other areas. Ironically the British monarchy still use the term "defender of the faith" despite the fact that was awarded to Henry XIII by the pope for his criticism of Protestant ideas. Of course that's before his desire for a male heir and his wife, who he wanted to divorce to get one was the aunt of Charles V, the most powerful man in Catholic Europe, who had more influence on the papacy that England could muster. There was already interest in Protestantism in England and attempts to produce an English bible which Henry initially opposed. Also Luther himself may not be too welcome in 1939Denmark and vice versa. All going to be very messy across the continent.
With the Sound Dues the DTers are used to it and it might provide some useful revenue for 39Denmark but its going to cause confusion when people turn up at Elsinore - especially since the region will look so vastly different to what their used to. Denmark39 might decide to continue it, drop it or possibly use it as a bargaining issue with some nations to make them less hostile.
One other thing that would need to be mentioned is how is Denmark39 on antibiotic product. Penicillin is of course know by this time along with a lot of other medical and health advances but its production was at a very low rate while medieval Europe has a hell of a lot of diseases that by 1939 there were at least some control/treatment for. Things like plague, smallpox and the like would be an issue.
Just one thing - Penicillin - as today Denmark had a very broad Pharmacutical Industri. During the occupation Penicillin was produced locally as Denmark was cut off. There was quite a lot of other advances and Denmark had a tally of Nobel Laureates in Pharmacy/Medicine prior to 1940 as well a certain Nuclear Physicist.
edit: regarding a possible Catholic crusade upon Denmark - it will be an unseen slaughter. TYW army of Wallenstein during 1627 numbered some 30,000, Tilly's 1627 some 20,000 which was during a time when these were living off the land. It would be no match for the Danish 1939 Army - few firearms, mainly a melee force, some cannon for seiges and a lot of Cavalry. This at the end of the Medieval War Period - beginning of the Little Ice Age. Agriculture isn't doing well and thus less troops may be raised and sustained for longer periods. Armies at the time moved in tight formations due to bad communications preventing them spreading out for movement. Also bad roads contribute to this hence my earlier mentioning of Danish forces not operating far from home and if then inland along a major river to move heavy equipment and supplies.
Denmark have 60,000,000 rounds of Rifle/MG ammunition stored and a factory producing that as well as Artillery shells. Let them come.
Would agree that any such attempt against Denmark itself would be a slaughter but a more general "Protestantism is devil worship" and fear of those strange newcomers could mean that DT Protestant communities, still fairly weak in number as its only been a few years since Luther hammered his thesis's on that wall and started things off, get stamped on earlier and more completely and how well could the UT Danes support any not very close to the country.
What the DTers would make of aircraft, iron ships and steam trains I don't know.
Your just reminded me of the climate issue as the Little Ice Age was still ongoing so that will be a shock for the UT Danes, although less so that in our current time probably.
Another side issue which just occurred to me. Had the old settlements in Greenland been lost yet?
Anyway don't want to go on too long and distract you from your own TL.
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on May 12, 2024 16:58:25 GMT
Berlin from April 22 1945 (the day before the Red Army entered the city) to April 22 1875. Inside the city are approx. 40,000 Wehrmacht and Waffen SS soldiers + approx 40,000 Volkssturm. What does Hitler make of his second chance? stevep |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 12, 2024 17:01:50 GMT
Berlin from April 22 1945 (the day before the Red Army entered the city) to April 22 1875. Inside the city are approx. 40,000 Wehrmacht and Waffen SS soldiers + approx 40,000 Volkssturm. What does Hitler make of his second chance? stevep |
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on May 12, 2024 17:19:36 GMT
Berlin from April 22 1945 (the day before the Red Army entered the city) to April 22 1875. Inside the city are approx. 40,000 Wehrmacht and Waffen SS soldiers + approx 40,000 Volkssturm. What does Hitler make of his second chance? stevepOk then. |
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575
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Post by 575 on May 12, 2024 18:39:40 GMT
Just one thing - Penicillin - as today Denmark had a very broad Pharmacutical Industri. During the occupation Penicillin was produced locally as Denmark was cut off. There was quite a lot of other advances and Denmark had a tally of Nobel Laureates in Pharmacy/Medicine prior to 1940 as well a certain Nuclear Physicist.
edit: regarding a possible Catholic crusade upon Denmark - it will be an unseen slaughter. TYW army of Wallenstein during 1627 numbered some 30,000, Tilly's 1627 some 20,000 which was during a time when these were living off the land. It would be no match for the Danish 1939 Army - few firearms, mainly a melee force, some cannon for seiges and a lot of Cavalry. This at the end of the Medieval War Period - beginning of the Little Ice Age. Agriculture isn't doing well and thus less troops may be raised and sustained for longer periods. Armies at the time moved in tight formations due to bad communications preventing them spreading out for movement. Also bad roads contribute to this hence my earlier mentioning of Danish forces not operating far from home and if then inland along a major river to move heavy equipment and supplies.
Denmark have 60,000,000 rounds of Rifle/MG ammunition stored and a factory producing that as well as Artillery shells. Let them come.
Would agree that any such attempt against Denmark itself would be a slaughter but a more general "Protestantism is devil worship" and fear of those strange newcomers could mean that DT Protestant communities, still fairly weak in number as its only been a few years since Luther hammered his thesis's on that wall and started things off, get stamped on earlier and more completely and how well could the UT Danes support any not very close to the country.
What the DTers would make of aircraft, iron ships and steam trains I don't know.
Your just reminded me of the climate issue as the Little Ice Age was still ongoing so that will be a shock for the UT Danes, although less so that in our current time probably.
Another side issue which just occurred to me. Had the old settlements in Greenland been lost yet?
Anyway don't want to go on too long and distract you from your own TL.
I don't really see the Danes helping out protestant congregations all over Europe - a port or a major river would be essential for being able to effect such and I don't even think the peoples of 1521 would take kindly to the ways of the Danes..
Re Greenland settlements the last attempt at contant was made around 1350 though only finding a deserted settlement - they are gone though the Danes will send off an expedition I'd expect to know for sure.
Its allright just needed a moment off! Am digging into the Japanese December 8 1941 attacks to see possible forces to use.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on May 12, 2024 20:37:00 GMT
Would agree that any such attempt against Denmark itself would be a slaughter but a more general "Protestantism is devil worship" and fear of those strange newcomers could mean that DT Protestant communities, still fairly weak in number as its only been a few years since Luther hammered his thesis's on that wall and started things off, get stamped on earlier and more completely and how well could the UT Danes support any not very close to the country.
What the DTers would make of aircraft, iron ships and steam trains I don't know.
Your just reminded me of the climate issue as the Little Ice Age was still ongoing so that will be a shock for the UT Danes, although less so that in our current time probably.
Another side issue which just occurred to me. Had the old settlements in Greenland been lost yet?
Anyway don't want to go on too long and distract you from your own TL.
I don't really see the Danes helping out protestant congregations all over Europe - a port or a major river would be essential for being able to effect such and I don't even think the peoples of 1521 would take kindly to the ways of the Danes..
Re Greenland settlements the last attempt at contant was made around 1350 though only finding a deserted settlement - they are gone though the Danes will send off an expedition I'd expect to know for sure.
Its allright just needed a moment off! Am digging into the Japanese December 8 1941 attacks to see possible forces to use.
I agree they can't in part because of logistics reasons whether they would desire to or not. As you say access via a port or river would really be required and even with a coastal port a lot of 1939 ships could be too large, at least if their also large enough to be reasonably safe from pirates and hostile forces.
Ah I thought it might be before this date but couldn't remember for sure.
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575
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Post by 575 on May 12, 2024 21:34:00 GMT
I don't really see the Danes helping out protestant congregations all over Europe - a port or a major river would be essential for being able to effect such and I don't even think the peoples of 1521 would take kindly to the ways of the Danes..
Re Greenland settlements the last attempt at contant was made around 1350 though only finding a deserted settlement - they are gone though the Danes will send off an expedition I'd expect to know for sure.
Its allright just needed a moment off! Am digging into the Japanese December 8 1941 attacks to see possible forces to use.
I agree they can't in part because of logistics reasons whether they would desire to or not. As you say access via a port or river would really be required and even with a coastal port a lot of 1939 ships could be too large, at least if their also large enough to be reasonably safe from pirates and hostile forces.
Ah I thought it might be before this date but couldn't remember for sure.
The thing is Denmark of 1939 still had a thriving building of Sailing ships so it wouldn't be impossible to find the relevant shipping for such undertakings. However still I don't think they would like to do so. |
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on May 14, 2024 12:42:33 GMT
1950 West German government replaces 1934 German government, the population approves of the change.
How does 1930s-40s Germany with Adenauer in power behave?
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on May 14, 2024 18:25:26 GMT
‘1876 New England To 1776’.
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on May 15, 2024 3:42:17 GMT
‘1876 New England To 1776’. The Brits get whipped even harder. The US becomes a global superpower much sooner - 1876 is already well into the Industrial Revolution. |
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on May 17, 2024 1:59:35 GMT
‘1990 Iraq To 1910’.
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on May 17, 2024 4:05:08 GMT
The Middle East and North Africa are his I guess. |
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on May 17, 2024 7:18:10 GMT
January 1 1988 US ISOT to January 1 1938.
How can US help prevent ww2?
This is still Reagan's presidency mind you.
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575
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Post by 575 on May 17, 2024 10:26:43 GMT
January 1 1988 US ISOT to January 1 1938. How can US help prevent ww2? This is still Reagan's presidency mind you. Even if Anti-Christ is sitting in the Kremlin the Soviet Union is no threat - no nukes no or close to no powerprojection capability. Loss of Thule AB not a significant problem. In 1938 World the US overseas bases isn't around though I guess the forces overseas and their depots have been brought home as part of ISOT - no? The US industry is still tasked to serve the Armed Forces as part of rebuilding programmes. The US entry of the IIRS The Military Balance 1987-88 consist of 13 pages!
Will the US be wanting to refight WWII - of course it will quite another fight with US Forces when deployed will defeat Nazi-Germany and Imperial Japan - Benny who?
France at this time was highly dependant upon US industrial output for its rearmament - aircraft and trucks though not the kind of aircraft of 1988. US Military trucks would do nicely - thank you!
If the US want to it may take out Hitler or it may fuel the British and French with the knowledge - strategy, operations, tactics and doctrine to make them defeat the German attack. The US have no alliance in 1938 though quite a number of smaller countries might well want such - Czechoslovakia and Austria who are in immediate danger - but also Poland, Scandinavian, Baltic and Low Countries. Spanish Civil War is ongoing - support for the Republican Government.. to pull it from the embrace of the Soviets! That may be too altruistic for the US to pursue.. Or just flood the World with text's of what happened in our WWII!
Though the prospect of robbing Soviet Union of any influence in Eastern Europe could be appealing to Reagan.
Providing alliance for everybody - more or less than Nazi-Germany, Soviet Union, Italy and Japan (Hungary, Franco) would really upset the world. Turkey wouldn't mind - the British and French of 1938 may be too hardheaded as some cost will come along - free market of a kind.
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