Miscellaneous: 1900 (Alternate) History Thread

[lordroel]

This thread is for members who want to post questions about a timeline they want to construct which are minor and undeserving of their own thread, and a place to share ideas that people don't have time, skill or knowledge to write themselves.

[lordroel]

France Fights On, 1915.

As this Twitter post says below.

[lordroel]

Finland joins the Allies instead of Germany in 1941.

[lordroel]

What if, the Lobster War of 1961 to 1963 between Brazil and France.

[stevep]

Feb 10, 2023 12:35:50 GMT lordroel said:

Finland joins the Allies instead of Germany in 1941.

  Highly unlikely even if Stalin hasn't waged the Winter War.  They have rocky relations with the Soviets and also are isolated from the western allies, being almost totally cut off by Nazi occupied Norway. 

  If somehow they did it would complicate the German position as there's no attack on Leningrad and points further north from Finnish territory and a bit more cover for the Murmansk convoys.  Plus a new if rather limited front on the Norway-Finland border.  It possibly means that the western allies try a bit to liberate Norway, which would open up a secure supply line to Moscow and also remove Norway as a German air and naval base.  However it would be difficult to secure the south especially, albeit that it would tie up German resources.

[lordroel]

Feb 10, 2023 15:06:14 GMT stevep said:

Feb 10, 2023 12:35:50 GMT lordroel said:

Finland joins the Allies instead of Germany in 1941.

  Highly unlikely even if Stalin hasn't waged the Winter War.  They have rocky relations with the Soviets and also are isolated from the western allies, being almost totally cut off by Nazi occupied Norway. 

  If somehow they did it would complicate the German position as there's no attack on Leningrad and points further north from Finnish territory and a bit more cover for the Murmansk convoys.  Plus a new if rather limited front on the Norway-Finland border.  It possibly means that the western allies try a bit to liberate Norway, which would open up a secure supply line to Moscow and also remove Norway as a German air and naval base.  However it would be difficult to secure the south especially, albeit that it would tie up German resources.

Well that is one reason why i created this thread, so we can put miscellaneous and frivolous post in it.

[575]

Feb 10, 2023 15:06:14 GMT stevep said:

Feb 10, 2023 12:35:50 GMT lordroel said:

Finland joins the Allies instead of Germany in 1941.

  Highly unlikely even if Stalin hasn't waged the Winter War.  They have rocky relations with the Soviets and also are isolated from the western allies, being almost totally cut off by Nazi occupied Norway. 

  If somehow they did it would complicate the German position as there's no attack on Leningrad and points further north from Finnish territory and a bit more cover for the Murmansk convoys.  Plus a new if rather limited front on the Norway-Finland border.  It possibly means that the western allies try a bit to liberate Norway, which would open up a secure supply line to Moscow and also remove Norway as a German air and naval base.  However it would be difficult to secure the south especially, albeit that it would tie up German resources.

No such thing:

The Allies could land in Petsamo and still ship out Finn nickel ore.

[lordroel]

Feb 26, 2023 13:01:14 GMT 575 said:

Feb 10, 2023 15:06:14 GMT stevep said:

  Highly unlikely even if Stalin hasn't waged the Winter War.  They have rocky relations with the Soviets and also are isolated from the western allies, being almost totally cut off by Nazi occupied Norway. 

  If somehow they did it would complicate the German position as there's no attack on Leningrad and points further north from Finnish territory and a bit more cover for the Murmansk convoys.  Plus a new if rather limited front on the Norway-Finland border.  It possibly means that the western allies try a bit to liberate Norway, which would open up a secure supply line to Moscow and also remove Norway as a German air and naval base.  However it would be difficult to secure the south especially, albeit that it would tie up German resources.

No such thing:

The Allies could land in Petsamo and still ship out Finn nickel ore.

You know the Baltic Sea is almost considered a German lake by 1941.

[575]

Feb 26, 2023 13:03:39 GMT lordroel said:

Feb 26, 2023 13:01:14 GMT 575 said:

No such thing:

The Allies could land in Petsamo and still ship out Finn nickel ore.

You know the Baltic Sea is almost considered a German lake by 1941.

Excuse me but Petsamo isn't adjoining the Baltic - there was a small port at Petsamo (really Petsamo was the area not a city) look below:

[lordroel]

Feb 26, 2023 13:08:44 GMT 575 said:

Feb 26, 2023 13:03:39 GMT lordroel said:

You know the Baltic Sea is almost considered a German lake by 1941.

Excuse me but Petsamo isn't adjoining the Baltic - there was a small port at Petsamo (really Petsamo was the area not a city) look below:

A my apologize.

[575]

No problem

[stevep]

Feb 26, 2023 13:01:14 GMT 575 said:

Feb 10, 2023 15:06:14 GMT stevep said:

  Highly unlikely even if Stalin hasn't waged the Winter War.  They have rocky relations with the Soviets and also are isolated from the western allies, being almost totally cut off by Nazi occupied Norway. 

  If somehow they did it would complicate the German position as there's no attack on Leningrad and points further north from Finnish territory and a bit more cover for the Murmansk convoys.  Plus a new if rather limited front on the Norway-Finland border.  It possibly means that the western allies try a bit to liberate Norway, which would open up a secure supply line to Moscow and also remove Norway as a German air and naval base.  However it would be difficult to secure the south especially, albeit that it would tie up German resources.

No such thing:

The Allies could land in Petsamo and still ship out Finn nickel ore.

  575

  Sorry not clear what you mean by 'No such thing'?  I didn't say they were totally cut off - the Soviet-Norwegian border only came into existence after the end of WWII after further Soviet annexations of Finnish territory.  However its a pretty narrow section and allies attempting to reach there by sea would be prone to attack by air and sea forces as with the Murmansk run while, and although the terrain & climate is pretty rough up there there's likely to be a threat from German held N Norway. 

  If Finland has decided at this point to join the allies they would still be very weary of the Soviets and reluctant to allow Soviet forces into their territory, at least until a German invasion seemed very likely to succeed.  This is even without the Winter War.

  The other issue is I can't see the Finns joining the allies in 1941, especially around the time of Barbarossa starting off.  Why would they join at that stage?  Possibly earlier if they wanted to try and oppose the German occupation of Norway - or use that to try and gain brownie points with the western powers and hence seek to deter a Soviet attack.  However since Stalin and Hitler were to all intent and purposed allies at this stage there's still a danger that Stalin would attack as OTL, possibly even during the summer which might reduce the Finnish edge in being prepared for winter conflict while the allies - which might be a now suddenly isolated Britain reeling from the collapse of their position in France - having to decide whether they can risk war with the Soviets as well as the Nazis.

  Steve

[Zyobot]

'No One-Child Policy In China'.

[575]

Feb 27, 2023 16:02:36 GMT stevep said:

Feb 26, 2023 13:01:14 GMT 575 said:

No such thing:

The Allies could land in Petsamo and still ship out Finn nickel ore.

  575

  Sorry not clear what you mean by 'No such thing'?  I didn't say they were totally cut off - the Soviet-Norwegian border only came into existence after the end of WWII after further Soviet annexations of Finnish territory.  However its a pretty narrow section and allies attempting to reach there by sea would be prone to attack by air and sea forces as with the Murmansk run while, and although the terrain & climate is pretty rough up there there's likely to be a threat from German held N Norway. 

  If Finland has decided at this point to join the allies they would still be very weary of the Soviets and reluctant to allow Soviet forces into their territory, at least until a German invasion seemed very likely to succeed.  This is even without the Winter War.

  The other issue is I can't see the Finns joining the allies in 1941, especially around the time of Barbarossa starting off.  Why would they join at that stage?  Possibly earlier if they wanted to try and oppose the German occupation of Norway - or use that to try and gain brownie points with the western powers and hence seek to deter a Soviet attack.  However since Stalin and Hitler were to all intent and purposed allies at this stage there's still a danger that Stalin would attack as OTL, possibly even during the summer which might reduce the Finnish edge in being prepared for winter conflict while the allies - which might be a now suddenly isolated Britain reeling from the collapse of their position in France - having to decide whether they can risk war with the Soviets as well as the Nazis.

  Steve

steve;

meant that there would be no narrow German - Soviet front in the north if the Finn joins the Allies (which I find difficult to happen)

Actually I'd expect the Germans to possibly attack Finland but given their staunch defences during the Winter War it may not happen during the opening moves though the Germans might be more eager for an early attack so as not to get bogged down during Winter - they did a Spring/Summer attack from Finland during the war for the Murmansk railway but didn't achieve anything so that may be just as troublesome as a Winter attack if not the local communications like they experienced going for Murmansk defeats them.

[stevep]

Mar 3, 2023 8:33:12 GMT 575 said:

Feb 27, 2023 16:02:36 GMT stevep said:

  575

  Sorry not clear what you mean by 'No such thing'?  I didn't say they were totally cut off - the Soviet-Norwegian border only came into existence after the end of WWII after further Soviet annexations of Finnish territory.  However its a pretty narrow section and allies attempting to reach there by sea would be prone to attack by air and sea forces as with the Murmansk run while, and although the terrain & climate is pretty rough up there there's likely to be a threat from German held N Norway. 

  If Finland has decided at this point to join the allies they would still be very weary of the Soviets and reluctant to allow Soviet forces into their territory, at least until a German invasion seemed very likely to succeed.  This is even without the Winter War.

  The other issue is I can't see the Finns joining the allies in 1941, especially around the time of Barbarossa starting off.  Why would they join at that stage?  Possibly earlier if they wanted to try and oppose the German occupation of Norway - or use that to try and gain brownie points with the western powers and hence seek to deter a Soviet attack.  However since Stalin and Hitler were to all intent and purposed allies at this stage there's still a danger that Stalin would attack as OTL, possibly even during the summer which might reduce the Finnish edge in being prepared for winter conflict while the allies - which might be a now suddenly isolated Britain reeling from the collapse of their position in France - having to decide whether they can risk war with the Soviets as well as the Nazis.

  Steve

steve;

meant that there would be no narrow German - Soviet front in the north if the Finn joins the Allies (which I find difficult to happen)

Actually I'd expect the Germans to possibly attack Finland but given their staunch defences during the Winter War it may not happen during the opening moves though the Germans might be more eager for an early attack so as not to get bogged down during Winter - they did a Spring/Summer attack from Finland during the war for the Murmansk railway but didn't achieve anything so that may be just as troublesome as a Winter attack if not the local communications like they experienced going for Murmansk defeats them.

  Ah, we were at cross purposes.