Presidents, PMs, Chancellors, General Secretaries and even Popes: Alternate lists of leaders

[Middlesex_Toffeeman]

Nov 23, 2019 11:16:06 GMT James G said:

Nov 23, 2019 3:50:31 GMT Zyobot said:

Interesting list of alternate post-Reagan POTUS’s you’ve assembled. Out of curiosity, I wonder how the policies enacted under Rumsfeld, Cheney and Gore will compare to those implemented under (surviving!) Reagan, Bush Sr. and Clinton.

I used Rummy because he was someone considered - just for a moment - as a running mate for Reagan. He and Bush the Elder had a rivalry back from when they were both in the White House under Ford. Once Reagan was killed, I thought he'd chose his friend also from those mid-70s days in the White House, Cheney, to be his VP: just a fun idea really. Then there was Gore who ran in 1988 and 1992 in OTL and he seemed a good choice too.
Policy wise? No real idea. The Cold War was still raging at the time of The Don and The Dick but I'm not sure too much would change with foreign policy. Domestically: I have no real idea.

Not related to this directly... but on page 2 of this thread, post #6, I predicted that Boris Johnson would assume the role of PM in 2019! That was posted back in early 2018 too.

Reminds me of the Fear, Loathing and Gumbo TL on the other site.

[docsavage]

6. Lyndon B. Johnson Democratic Vice president Hubert Horatio Humphrey
November 22.1963-Jan,20.1973
37. Charles Percy Republican Spiro Agnew 1973-1974(resigned) Gerald Ford 1974-1977

1. Lyndon Johnson does not send combat troops into Vietnam, Remembered more for great society ,defeats Nixon in 1968.dies of heart attack soon after leaving office .
2. Defeats Hubert Humphrey first Republican president in 12 years loses to candidate in otl is nota professional politician.

[James G]

This is just a bit of a fun exercise. I deliberately didn't go to the president following Obama.


US presidents with the opposite parties

Jimmy Carter, 1977 to 1981
A Republican governor from the Deep South, Carter was a rarity. He came from Georgia to Washington aiming to change things for the better after scandals in the capital.
Carter was president during a time of economic recession and with troubles in the Middle East. He had a torrid relationship with Congress too. A one-termer, he was defeated in 1980.

Ronald Reagan, 1981 to 1989
Reagan was from California. The Democratic president brought with him a lot of hope. He pulled it off.
Reagan led the nation through economic good times at home and stared down the Soviet Union globally.

George HW Bush, 1989 to 1993
Bush was Reagan's VP from Massachusetts. He inherited much and governed well. The Soviet Union fell and Iraq was beaten in war.
A poor domestic economy and also a desire for change from voters saw him defeated in 1992 though.

Bill Clinton, 1993 to 2001
Like Carter, another Republican governor from the South, this time Arkansas. Clinton's takedown of Bush in '92 was remarkable. His personal life was a mess and he was scandal hit before winning the election. Still, he pulled it off.
Clinton governed through the Nineties and only just survived another sex scandal towards the end of his presidency.

George W Bush, 2001 to 2009
Bush Jnr., the son of Bush Snr., was a Texan Democrat. He won a disputed election against Clinton's VP where Bush took Florida.
The 9/11 attacks and the subsequent War on Terror dominated his presidency rather than the economy nor the moral crusade against Clinton's ill-morals which he was elected on.

Barack Obama, 2009 to 2017
Obama came from Illinois, a traditional Democratic state which he as a Republican won in the elections of '08 & then '12. A young man, he was very different from those before him.
African-American and an inspiration to millions - globally too - his presidency disappointed many in the end but he didn't leave office hated.

[James G]

UK Prime Ministers from the opposite party


Margaret Thatcher, 1979 to 1990
Labour PM throughout the 80's, she led the nation through what some say as good times while others decried the state of the country.
In the end, her own party did her in on the matter of Europe.

John Major, 1990 to 1997
A fast riser in the part at the end of Thatcher's premiership, Major was a beacon of hope for Labour when he won the general election in '92.
An economic crash and then sleaze, to say nothing of divisions over the EU, ruined most of his premiership though.

Tony Blair, 1997 to 2007
Conservative PM who served for ten years. His premiership was all about change and that it really was.
His alliances with a right-wing president in America saw foreign wars aplenty.

Gordon Brown, 2007 to 2010
One of the last Scottish Conservatives though things didn't look that way for the future at the time of him taking power.
Brown didn't win the general election three years after taking office and didn't want to leave Downing Street either.

David Cameron, 2010 to 2016
A fresh young thing for Labour. He was PM during a coalition with the SNP and won an election outright in '15.
A question about Europe put an end to his premiership in the end.

Theresa May, 2016 to 2019
A Labour MP from the Thames Valley - the Tory-shire - she won the race to succeed Cameron when all opponents imploded.
Likewise with her predecessor, Europe again put an end to her premiership as Labour continued its long civil war over the EU.

[lordroel]

Nice James G, but would being from the opposite party mean they could remain in office as long as they did in OTL.

[James G]

Jan 4, 2020 20:24:24 GMT lordroel said:

Nice James G , but would being from the opposite party mean they could remain in office as long as they did in OTL.

Probably not, but it is possible!
The list, like the one above with US Presidents, is only meant to be fun.

[insect]

Jan 4, 2020 20:27:28 GMT James G said:

Jan 4, 2020 20:24:24 GMT lordroel said:

Nice James G , but would being from the opposite party mean they could remain in office as long as they did in OTL.

Probably not, but it is possible!
The list, like the one above with US Presidents, is only meant

to be fun.

I take it a Republican Lyndon Johnson passed civil rights
And Reagan was a conservative Democrat

[James G]

Presidents of the British Republic, 2000 to the present


Jeremy 'Paddy' Ashdown, 2000 to 2010
First president of Britain and thus the head of state, following the abolition of the monarchy come the millennium.
Ashdown, a former Lib-Dem, was nominated as an independent with the idea that all presidents should be non-partisan. He served two terms.

Antony 'Tony' Blair, 2010 to 2012
Two years after leaving the office as prime minister, where the real power lay instead of the presidency, Blair nonetheless won the election to this post.
His time in the office was far shorter than when in Downing Street. A financial scandal saw him forced from office two years in.

Glenda Jackson, 2012 to 2015
Politicising the office less so than Blair did, Jackson sought to return some dignity to the role of Britain's head of state.
She was non-controversial during her time but non-effective too. She ran in 2015 and lost.

Nigel Farage, 2015 onwards
The Farage Storm came in 2015.
Britain's head of state won election on the back of a proposed 'people's vote' for the presidency to have more power than it does.
He is currently fighting for that to come into place starting 2020 in an election he is running in for a second term.

[stevep]

Jan 11, 2020 19:00:53 GMT James G said:

Presidents of the British Republic, 2000 to the present


Jeremy 'Paddy' Ashdown, 2000 to 2010
First president of Britain and thus the head of state, following the abolition of the monarchy come the millennium.
Ashdown, a former Lib-Dem, was nominated as an independent with the idea that all presidents should be non-partisan. He served two terms.

Antony 'Tony' Blair, 2010 to 2012
Two years after leaving the office as prime minister, where the real power lay instead of the presidency, Blair nonetheless won the election to this post.
His time in the office was far shorter than when in Downing Street. A financial scandal saw him forced from office two years in.

Glenda Jackson, 2012 to 2015
Politicising the office less so than Blair did, Jackson sought to return some dignity to the role of Britain's head of state.
She was non-controversial during her time but non-effective too. She ran in 2015 and lost.

Nigel Farage, 2015 onwards
The Farage Storm came in 2015.
Britain's head of state won election on the back of a proposed 'people's vote' for the presidency to have more power than it does.
He is currently fighting for that to come into place starting 2020 in an election he is running in for a second term.

  James

  I can't really see a Republican success in that time period, unless the Diana's death naide in popularity was followed by the Queen's death and then Charles making a real hash of things.  Suspect that the idea of Farage as a powerful - rather than token - President could well see a revial of monarchist support, probably if Charles has fouled things up badly him abdicating his claim in favour of William.

  Steve

[James G]

Alternate UK Prime Ministers


Margaret Thatcher (Conservative) - May 1979 to March 1986
Britain's first female PM. She won the 1979 and '83 general elections as well as being in charge during the victorious Falklands War. A dispute within Cabinet arose at the end of '85 and into early '86: the Westland Affair. Defence Secretary Heseltine resigned and the fallout saw other ministers go.
A backbencher tabled a leadership challenge and while he had no hope, when it was fought, Heseltine jumped into the race. Thatcher was voted out by her colleagues, right at what many assumed was the peak of her premiership.

Michael Heseltine (Conservative) - March 1986 to May 1993
Winning the leadership race, Heseltine led the country for the next seven years. He won the general election held in '88 against Labour.
An active man who was seen to enjoy himself, at one point his nationwide popularity was said to reach 75%. Infrastructure boosts and spending was on the cards. He moved away from many of Thatcher's monetarist policies yet didn't abandon them all.
Heseltine led the Conservatives into the general election of '93 expecting to win another term but received a shock.

John Smith (Labour) - May 1993 to September 1993
Smith took command of the Labour Party back in '89 after Kinnock resigned following the previous year's election loss and major party disputes arising from that. He promised a radical yet at the same time sensible agenda for government.
At the polls in May '93, Smith won the premiership with a narrow majority. The strain upon his health, was quite something though. Months into Downing Street, he died of a fatal heart attack. It shocked the nation and left him with a favourable public memory due to the circumstances of this.

Tony Blair (Labour) - September 1993 to May 1998
Blair was Smith's replacement. He took over within a day because the country needed a Prime Minister and this propelled him to the party leadership where a month later a special conference confirmed it.
He didn't have the public good will that Smith had. His premiership was beset by scandals with ministers and backbench MPs. The majority of these weren't personally anything he had to do with but he was the public face of the government during such a time of financial and sexual impropriety on show across the newspapers seemingly every weekend. By-election defeats saw his majority cut below zero in the end and he relied upon SDLP support to keep Labour in office.
Blair went into the election of May '98 in public claiming victory was coming but personally resigned to the inevitable defeat from Michael Portillo's renewed Conservatives who would go on to win a significant majority.

[lordroel]

Feb 22, 2020 17:56:17 GMT James G said:

Alternate UK Prime Ministers


Margaret Thatcher (Conservative) - May 1979 to March 1986
Britain's first female PM. She won the 1979 and '83 general elections as well as being in charge during the victorious Falklands War. A dispute within Cabinet arose at the end of '85 and into early '86: the Westland Affair. Defence Secretary Heseltine resigned and the fallout saw other ministers go.
A backbencher tabled a leadership challenge and while he had no hope, when it was fought, Heseltine jumped into the race. Thatcher was voted out by her colleagues, right at what many assumed was the peak of her premiership.

Michael Heseltine (Conservative) - March 1986 to May 1993
Winning the leadership race, Heseltine led the country for the next seven years. He won the general election held in '88 against Labour.
An active man who was seen to enjoy himself, at one point his nationwide popularity was said to reach 75%. Infrastructure boosts and spending was on the cards. He moved away from many of Thatcher's monetarist policies yet didn't abandon them all.
Heseltine led the Conservatives into the general election of '93 expecting to win another term but received a shock.

John Smith (Labour) - May 1993 to September 1993
Smith took command of the Labour Party back in '89 after Kinnock resigned following the previous year's election loss and major party disputes arising from that. He promised a radical yet at the same time sensible agenda for government.
At the polls in May '93, Smith won the premiership with a narrow majority. The strain upon his health, was quite something though. Months into Downing Street, he died of a fatal heart attack. It shocked the nation and left him with a favourable public memory due to the circumstances of this.

Tony Blair (Labour) - September 1993 to May 1998
Blair was Smith's replacement. He took over within a day because the country needed a Prime Minister and this propelled him to the party leadership where a month later a special conference confirmed it.
He didn't have the public good will that Smith had. His premiership was beset by scandals with ministers and backbench MPs. The majority of these weren't personally anything he had to do with but he was the public face of the government during such a time of financial and sexual impropriety on show across the newspapers seemingly every weekend. By-election defeats saw his majority cut below zero in the end and he relied upon SDLP support to keep Labour in office.
Blair went into the election of May '98 in public claiming victory was coming but personally resigned to the inevitable defeat from Michael Portillo's renewed Conservatives who would go on to win a significant majority.

Do not think many PMs have died in No 10.

[James G]

Feb 22, 2020 17:58:02 GMT lordroel said:

Feb 22, 2020 17:56:17 GMT James G said:

Alternate UK Prime Ministers


Margaret Thatcher (Conservative) - May 1979 to March 1986
Britain's first female PM. She won the 1979 and '83 general elections as well as being in charge during the victorious Falklands War. A dispute within Cabinet arose at the end of '85 and into early '86: the Westland Affair. Defence Secretary Heseltine resigned and the fallout saw other ministers go.
A backbencher tabled a leadership challenge and while he had no hope, when it was fought, Heseltine jumped into the race. Thatcher was voted out by her colleagues, right at what many assumed was the peak of her premiership.

Michael Heseltine (Conservative) - March 1986 to May 1993
Winning the leadership race, Heseltine led the country for the next seven years. He won the general election held in '88 against Labour.
An active man who was seen to enjoy himself, at one point his nationwide popularity was said to reach 75%. Infrastructure boosts and spending was on the cards. He moved away from many of Thatcher's monetarist policies yet didn't abandon them all.
Heseltine led the Conservatives into the general election of '93 expecting to win another term but received a shock.

John Smith (Labour) - May 1993 to September 1993
Smith took command of the Labour Party back in '89 after Kinnock resigned following the previous year's election loss and major party disputes arising from that. He promised a radical yet at the same time sensible agenda for government.
At the polls in May '93, Smith won the premiership with a narrow majority. The strain upon his health, was quite something though. Months into Downing Street, he died of a fatal heart attack. It shocked the nation and left him with a favourable public memory due to the circumstances of this.

Tony Blair (Labour) - September 1993 to May 1998
Blair was Smith's replacement. He took over within a day because the country needed a Prime Minister and this propelled him to the party leadership where a month later a special conference confirmed it.
He didn't have the public good will that Smith had. His premiership was beset by scandals with ministers and backbench MPs. The majority of these weren't personally anything he had to do with but he was the public face of the government during such a time of financial and sexual impropriety on show across the newspapers seemingly every weekend. By-election defeats saw his majority cut below zero in the end and he relied upon SDLP support to keep Labour in office.
Blair went into the election of May '98 in public claiming victory was coming but personally resigned to the inevitable defeat from Michael Portillo's renewed Conservatives who would go on to win a significant majority.

Do not think many PMs have died in No 10.

I don't think any have though I could be wrong.
Spencer Perceval was assassinated in 1812 in the House of Commons lobby.
John Smith had heart attacks in 1988 and 1994. The second one killed him when he was Labour leader: here I have it a year earlier, when in power, after the stress of a long campaign followed by the urgency of government.

[stevep]

Feb 22, 2020 18:08:52 GMT James G said:

Feb 22, 2020 17:58:02 GMT lordroel said:

Do not think many PMs have died in No 10.

I don't think any have though I could be wrong.
Spencer Perceval was assassinated in 1812 in the House of Commons lobby.
John Smith had heart attacks in 1988 and 1994. The second one killed him when he was Labour leader: here I have it a year earlier, when in power, after the stress of a long campaign followed by the urgency of government.

  Technically I think Pitt the Younger was still PM when he died in 1805 and there might be one or two more but in more recent times I think people tend to live long enough to retire from politics before they die.  However in this case unfortunately I fear Smith wouldn't last long because of his heart problems.  Which is a pity as he would have been a decent PM and better in many ways that Blair.

  I wonder what Portillo we would get.  Assuming this would be the more extreme character in the late 80's and a relapse into hard line Thatcherism that the markedly more liberal one who seemed to emerge after his defeat OTL.

[James G]

America sure likes a General (or an Admiral) in the White House


General Colin Powell - Republican - 1997 to 2005
Run against Clinton in 1996 and won twice (Clinton rematch in 2000).

General Wesley Clark - Democrat - 2005 to 2013
Successful two terms in office for the Democrats.

General David Petraeus - Democrat - 2013 to 2017
Critic of Clark, joined the Democrats and beat Clark's VP plus the Republican candidate.

Admiral William McRaven - Republican - 20017 to ??.??
Returned the White House to the Republicans after a sex scandal dogged Petraeus.

[James G]

How the West was lost


Franklin D. Roosevelt (D) - 1933 to 1945
Winning four terms, FDR led the United States out of the Great Depression and into world wars against Germany and Japan.
He died soon after his inauguration for his historic fourth term.

Henry A. Wallace (D) - 1945 to 1953
FDR's VP. Retained on the ticket for the '44 election and succeeded FDR upon the president's death.
With a foolish belief in Stalin's 'good side' and a hatred for the empires of Britain and France, Wallace put US nuclear weapons under international control. He presided over the loss of Greece, Italy, post-war Germany, China, Korea and the Philippines to communism. France and Iran would later likewise enter the Soviet orbit too. America once more retreated to its own shores, giving up Europe and much of Asia too.
Going to war with the FBI, Wallace brought down Hoover and ran for re-election a second time in '52 but was unsuccessful.

Robert A. Taft (R) - 1953
Won election in '52 over Wallace. Aimed to re-align the West and defend Britain from war fears with a Soviet controlled Europe.
Died months into office with allegations that he was poisoned at the start of a communist coup orchestrated from Moscow.

General Douglas MacArthur (I) - 1953 to ??.??
Seized power to save the nation from the communists, locking up many enemies in the process and effectively cancelling democracy when his soldiers took over Washington.
Organised the Second Constitutional Convention following his taking of power to redraw the political dimensions of America.