Real time Discusion thread

[lordroel]

Real time Discussion thread

This thread will be dedicated to any questions you have about the Real Time projects that are being posted here.

The Real Time projects listed here are those who are ongoing, finished, planned ore considered.

Franco-Prussian War (1870) Glory & Defeat - Week by Week, Finished.

Korean War (1950 – 1953), ongoing until July 27th 2027.

World War II in real time, Finished.

The Great War (1914-1918) in real time, Finished.

Slovenian Independence War of 1991 in real time, Finished.

Six-Day War in real time, Finished.

The Falklands War - Timeline, Finished.

Winter War in real time, Finished.

Yom Kippur War, Finished.

Cuban Missile Crisis in real time, Finished.

This Day In United States Naval History, Finished. 

This Day in History, Finished.

Gulf War 1991 - Operation Desert Storm in real time, Finished.

Anglo-Zanzibar War of 1896, Finished.

United States invasion of Grenada 1983 - Operation Urgent Fury in realtime, Finished.

The Spanish–American War (1898) in real time, Finished.

United States Civil War (1861 – 1865) in Real Time, ongoing until May 26th 2027.

[stevep]

Aug 16, 2019 11:34:37 GMT lordroel said:

Real time Discussion thread

This thread will be dedicated to any questions you have about the Real Time projects that are being posted here.

The Real Time projects listed here are those who are ongoing, finished, planned ore considered.

World War II in real time, ongoing until 2023.

The Great War (1914-1918) in real time, ongoing until 2023.

Slovenian Independence War of 1991 in real time, Finished.

The Falklands War - Timeline, Finished.

Winter War in real time, Finished.

Cuban Missile Crisis in real time, planned to start on October 15th 2020.

Gulf War - Operation Desert Storm in real time, planned to start on January 17th 2020.

  Lordroel

  Probably a good idea.  If we're making comments or points about what you say in those threads its better doing it in separate location rather than clutter up the threads.  Only down side is it means we have to have two windows open but no great problem with that.

  Steve

[stevep]

   Just a comment but interesting in the WWII entry:

A lecturer at the University of British Columbia, Professor Henry Angus, accurately predicts a Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour.

  This is surprising considering before the Taranto attack, which is still to come, it was thought that torpedo bombers couldn't successfully attack a fleet in a shallow harbour.  Coupled with the distance from any Japanese bases to Pearl Harbour.

[lordroel]

Aug 16, 2019 12:10:59 GMT stevep said:

Aug 16, 2019 11:34:37 GMT lordroel said:

Real time Discussion thread

This thread will be dedicated to any questions you have about the Real Time projects that are being posted here.

The Real Time projects listed here are those who are ongoing, finished, planned ore considered.

World War II in real time, ongoing until 2023.

The Great War (1914-1918) in real time, ongoing until 2023.

Slovenian Independence War of 1991 in real time, Finished.

The Falklands War - Timeline, Finished.

Winter War in real time, Finished.

Cuban Missile Crisis in real time, planned to start on October 15th 2020.

Gulf War - Operation Desert Storm in real time, planned to start on January 17th 2020.

  Lordroel

  Probably a good idea.  If we're making comments or points about what you say in those threads its better doing it in separate location rather than clutter up the threads.  Only down side is it means we have to have two windows open but no great problem with that.

  Steve

Well discussions about the topics will still happen in the threads, but i toughed creating a general thread for all these Real time projects makes it more easy for people to discus things about them without derailing the threads.

I do plan om more projects, but only if i can find day by day events, so if people have tips, then please let me know and i will check them out, these days i work on completing a entire short project so the only thing i need to do is post them. 

[lordroel]

I am happy to post the official banner for Cuban Missile Crisis in real time which is planned to start on October 15th 2019.

[stevep]

   Lordroel

   On today's WWII thread there's a large chunk of duplication for the air battles over Britain. You have:

Shortly before noon, the first two attacking formations began to take off and reach altitude. With cloud building up, the bomber formations were given the all clear to take off, some three hours behind the planned commencement of operations. Bombers of KG 1 got away as scheduled and over the French coast met up with their escorts. But heavy cloud cover forced a delay in the rendezvous as several bombers circled the airfields waiting for formations to emerge from the clouds. The Do 17s and Ju 88s of KG 76 had problems with the cloud and found it difficult meeting up with their escorts. Several minutes later the bombers of 9./KG 76, led by Staffelkapitaen Hptm. Joachim Roth took off and flew almost a direct route to the target, first at an altitude of 500 feet but dropping to 60 feet as they approached the Sussex coast, avoiding the British radar. Relatively free of any defensive fire from the British, the Dornier formation approached the airfield at about 1320 hours only to find, not pillars of smoke from the preceding attacks, but clear skies. The problem was that the delay that had occurred with the Ju 88s and Do 17s in negotiating the cloud base on take off, coupled with the fact that flying time was slower than expected, they were running up to ten minutes behind schedule while the nine low flying Do 17s crossing near Beachy Head were on time.  Instead of being the third to arrive the nine bombers of 9./KG 76 were the first to arrive at the airfield and were alone.

As the German bombers spread out and selected targets, the British defenses woke up and attacked. RAF No. 111 Squadron Croydon (Hurricanes) were "scrambled" and instructed to vector Kenley, and to 111 commander Squadron Leader John Thompson's surprise, he was told to maintain only 100 feet over the airfield. Quipped Thompson;

"Your bloody mad" "......I could prune trees at that height."

Came the voice over the R/T;

"I repeat, yes repeat.......vector Kenley.....patrol at 100 feet........30 plus low level bandits approaching"

The twelve Hurricanes curved in to attack the formation from above as British anti-aircraft guns opened fire. The first plane to go down was not German but British when one of the attacking Hurricanes spun and dove into the ground. The remaining British fighters pulled up and away from the flak bursts and made for the opposite side of the airfield where the German bombers would exit after attacking the airfield. Despite the murderous fire from below, the Dorniers pressed home their attacks. Soon three hangars were ablaze as bombs scored direct hits. But many of the bombers were severely damaged from the ground fire. Reaching the end of the airfield the German bombers faced another British defense, parachute-and-cable launchers. These were cables shot into the sky and held aloft by small parachutes and weighted with a drag parachute. Launched in rows of nine or more directly in the flight path of a low flying enemy airplane, the cable would create drag on the plane and play havoc with its control, finally forcing it to crash. Upon reaching the edge of the airfield, the Do 17s were greeted with the first salvo of these innovative British defenses. Most of the bombers made it through the cables but one bomber, damaged and on fire from the anti-aircraft guns, was unable to clear the wires. The cables snagged the bomber, the plane stalled and finally crashed to the ground just outside the airfield, killing all on board.

The rest of the bomber formation cleared the cables and airfield only to be bounced by the waiting Hurricanes of RAF No. 111 Sqd. Immediately, two Hurricanes set one bomber on fire and it soon crashed. The rest of the formation scattered and tried to individually make it back to France. Continuing with their attacks as the Dorniers hedge hopped across the English countryside, the Hurricanes were able to seriously damage more of the Dorniers but lost three more fighters to the bomber's defensive fire. Crossing the coast the remaining seven bombers headed to French soil, many smoking, on fire and running on only one engine. Two Dorniers crashed into the Channel on the return flight and two more crashed onto the French coast. One of the bombers that crashed on the coastline was counted to have more than two hundred holes from .303in rounds in its fuselage. Two more landed, wheels down and seriously damaged, at other airfields in France - one piloted by the navigator after the pilot had been killed in his seat. Only one bomber made it back to its airfield at Cormeilles-en-Vexin without serious damage and no injured crewmen.

While the attack by 9./KG 76 was happening, the twenty-seven Dorniers of I./KG 76 and III./KG 76 were having troubles of their own. The first RAF fighters to engage the high flying Dorniers were Hurricanes from RAF No. 615 Sqd. who became entangled with the escorting Messerschmitts of JG 3. The Bf 109s, coming out of the sun, seriously damaged three Hurricanes, killing one of the British pilots. Despite this success, the action allowed the twelve Hurricanes of RAF No. 32 Sqd. to dive and attack the bomber formations of I./KG 76, III./KG 76 and the Zerstörers of ZG 26 unmolested from the Bf 109s. The sudden attacks by the Hurricanes knocked down one Dornier and seriously damaged several others while forcing some of the bombers to miss Kenley and instead drop their loads on rail lines near the airfield and on Croydon airfield. Several Bf 110s were damaged when eight Spitfires of RAF No. 64 Sqd. joined the battle. One of the Zerstörers attacked was that of Rüdiger Proske, who, with his rear gunner wounded and his engines damaged, pretended to 'play dead' in the face of an attack by a Spitfire. Allowing the twin-engined plane to plunge 6,000 feet out of control, Proske regained control and found nobody had followed him down during his death spin. He headed for France.

Instead of being the first to arrive, the twelve Ju 88s of II./KG 76 arrived last to find the target covered in smoke and instead switched to their secondary target, the airfield at West Malling. As the formation passed Biggin Hill, the anti aircraft defense of the airfield damaged a Ju 88 and it was immediately pounced on by RAF fighters. The bomber crashed eight miles south-east of Biggin Hill.

The twelve Hurricanes curved in to attack the formation from above as British anti-aircraft guns opened fire. The first plane to go down was not German but British when one of the attacking Hurricanes spun and dove into the ground. The remaining British fighters pulled up and away from the flak bursts and made for the opposite side of the airfield where the German bombers would exit after attacking the airfield. Despite the murderous fire from below, the Dorniers pressed home their attacks. Soon three hangars were ablaze as bombs scored direct hits. But many of the bombers were severely damaged from the ground fire. Reaching the end of the airfield the German bombers faced another British defense, parachute-and-cable launchers. These were cables shot into the sky and held aloft by small parachutes and weighted with a drag parachute. Launched in rows of nine or more directly in the flight path of a low flying enemy airplane, the cable would create drag on the plane and play havoc with its control, finally forcing it to crash. Upon reaching the edge of the airfield, the Do 17s were greeted with the first salvo of these innovative British defenses. Most of the bombers made it through the cables but one bomber, damaged and on fire from the anti-aircraft guns, was unable to clear the wires. The cables snagged the bomber, the plane stalled and finally crashed to the ground just outside the airfield, killing all on board.

The rest of the bomber formation cleared the cables and airfield only to be bounced by the waiting Hurricanes of RAF No. 111 Sqd. Immediately, two Hurricanes set one bomber on fire and it soon crashed. The rest of the formation scattered and tried to individually make it back to France. Continuing with their attacks as the Dorniers hedge hopped across the English countryside, the Hurricanes were able to seriously damage more of the Dorniers but lost three more fighters to the bomber's defensive fire. Crossing the coast the remaining seven bombers headed to French soil, many smoking, on fire and running on only one engine. Two Dorniers crashed into the Channel on the return flight and two more crashed onto the French coast. One of the bombers that crashed on the coastline was counted to have more than two hundred holes from .303in rounds in its fuselage. Two more landed, wheels down and seriously damaged, at other airfields in France - one piloted by the navigator after the pilot had been killed in his seat. Only one bomber made it back to its airfield at Cormeilles-en-Vexin without serious damage and no injured crewmen.

While the attack by 9./KG 76 was happening, the twenty-seven Dorniers of I./KG 76 and III./KG 76 were having troubles of their own. The first RAF fighters to engage the high flying Dorniers were Hurricanes from RAF No. 615 Sqd. who became entangled with the escorting Messerschmitts of JG 3. The Bf 109s, coming out of the sun, seriously damaged three Hurricanes, killing one of the British pilots. Despite this success, the action allowed the twelve Hurricanes of RAF No. 32 Sqd. to dive and attack the bomber formations of I./KG 76, III./KG 76 and the Zerstörers of ZG 26 unmolested from the Bf 109s. The sudden attacks by the Hurricanes knocked down one Dornier and seriously damaged several others while forcing some of the bombers to miss Kenley and instead drop their loads on rail lines near the airfield and on Croydon airfield. Several Bf 110s were damaged when eight Spitfires of RAF No. 64 Sqd. joined the battle. One of the Zerstörers attacked was that of Rüdiger Proske, who, with his rear gunner wounded and his engines damaged, pretended to 'play dead' in the face of an attack by a Spitfire. Allowing the twin-engined plane to plunge 6,000 feet out of control, Proske regained control and found nobody had followed him down during his death spin. He headed for France.

Instead of being the first to arrive, the twelve Ju 88s of II./KG 76 arrived last to find the target covered in smoke and instead switched to their secondary target, the airfield at West Malling. As the formation passed Biggin Hill, the anti aircraft defense of the airfield damaged a Ju 88 and it was immediately pounced on by RAF fighters. The bomber crashed eight miles south-east of Biggin Hill.

Four Ju 88s and six Do 17s were lost during the attacks on Kenley, with one Ju 88 forcing Flt. Lt. Stanford Tuck, by return fire to bale out of his RAF No. 92 Squadron Spitfire. Despite the heavy attack by KG 76, Kenley was operational again within twenty-four hours. A total of 100 bombs had fallen on the airfield with the result that ten hangers were damaged and fourteen aircraft on the ground destroyed. For the first time the operations room at Kenley was put out of action with the communications cut and nine people killed. Within three days after moving to a new location, operations were back in action.

 

  That was a bloody day but since many of the RAF losses were on the ground or in air losses some of the pilots will have escaped while many of the German losses will be dead or captured in the key area of pilots Britain is possibly ahead.  Even through most of the LW losses were bombers which means their vital Me 109's suffered significantly less. 

  There's also the growing mental and physical strain on each side which I believe was mentioned on the last video you linked to with yesterday's episode.

[lordroel]

Aug 18, 2019 10:35:46 GMT stevep said:

   Lordroel

   On today's WWII thread there's a large chunk of duplication for the air battles over Britain. You have:

Shortly before noon, the first two attacking formations began to take off and reach altitude. With cloud building up, the bomber formations were given the all clear to take off, some three hours behind the planned commencement of operations. Bombers of KG 1 got away as scheduled and over the French coast met up with their escorts. But heavy cloud cover forced a delay in the rendezvous as several bombers circled the airfields waiting for formations to emerge from the clouds. The Do 17s and Ju 88s of KG 76 had problems with the cloud and found it difficult meeting up with their escorts. Several minutes later the bombers of 9./KG 76, led by Staffelkapitaen Hptm. Joachim Roth took off and flew almost a direct route to the target, first at an altitude of 500 feet but dropping to 60 feet as they approached the Sussex coast, avoiding the British radar. Relatively free of any defensive fire from the British, the Dornier formation approached the airfield at about 1320 hours only to find, not pillars of smoke from the preceding attacks, but clear skies. The problem was that the delay that had occurred with the Ju 88s and Do 17s in negotiating the cloud base on take off, coupled with the fact that flying time was slower than expected, they were running up to ten minutes behind schedule while the nine low flying Do 17s crossing near Beachy Head were on time.  Instead of being the third to arrive the nine bombers of 9./KG 76 were the first to arrive at the airfield and were alone.

As the German bombers spread out and selected targets, the British defenses woke up and attacked. RAF No. 111 Squadron Croydon (Hurricanes) were "scrambled" and instructed to vector Kenley, and to 111 commander Squadron Leader John Thompson's surprise, he was told to maintain only 100 feet over the airfield. Quipped Thompson;

"Your bloody mad" "......I could prune trees at that height."

Came the voice over the R/T;

"I repeat, yes repeat.......vector Kenley.....patrol at 100 feet........30 plus low level bandits approaching"

The twelve Hurricanes curved in to attack the formation from above as British anti-aircraft guns opened fire. The first plane to go down was not German but British when one of the attacking Hurricanes spun and dove into the ground. The remaining British fighters pulled up and away from the flak bursts and made for the opposite side of the airfield where the German bombers would exit after attacking the airfield. Despite the murderous fire from below, the Dorniers pressed home their attacks. Soon three hangars were ablaze as bombs scored direct hits. But many of the bombers were severely damaged from the ground fire. Reaching the end of the airfield the German bombers faced another British defense, parachute-and-cable launchers. These were cables shot into the sky and held aloft by small parachutes and weighted with a drag parachute. Launched in rows of nine or more directly in the flight path of a low flying enemy airplane, the cable would create drag on the plane and play havoc with its control, finally forcing it to crash. Upon reaching the edge of the airfield, the Do 17s were greeted with the first salvo of these innovative British defenses. Most of the bombers made it through the cables but one bomber, damaged and on fire from the anti-aircraft guns, was unable to clear the wires. The cables snagged the bomber, the plane stalled and finally crashed to the ground just outside the airfield, killing all on board.

The rest of the bomber formation cleared the cables and airfield only to be bounced by the waiting Hurricanes of RAF No. 111 Sqd. Immediately, two Hurricanes set one bomber on fire and it soon crashed. The rest of the formation scattered and tried to individually make it back to France. Continuing with their attacks as the Dorniers hedge hopped across the English countryside, the Hurricanes were able to seriously damage more of the Dorniers but lost three more fighters to the bomber's defensive fire. Crossing the coast the remaining seven bombers headed to French soil, many smoking, on fire and running on only one engine. Two Dorniers crashed into the Channel on the return flight and two more crashed onto the French coast. One of the bombers that crashed on the coastline was counted to have more than two hundred holes from .303in rounds in its fuselage. Two more landed, wheels down and seriously damaged, at other airfields in France - one piloted by the navigator after the pilot had been killed in his seat. Only one bomber made it back to its airfield at Cormeilles-en-Vexin without serious damage and no injured crewmen.

While the attack by 9./KG 76 was happening, the twenty-seven Dorniers of I./KG 76 and III./KG 76 were having troubles of their own. The first RAF fighters to engage the high flying Dorniers were Hurricanes from RAF No. 615 Sqd. who became entangled with the escorting Messerschmitts of JG 3. The Bf 109s, coming out of the sun, seriously damaged three Hurricanes, killing one of the British pilots. Despite this success, the action allowed the twelve Hurricanes of RAF No. 32 Sqd. to dive and attack the bomber formations of I./KG 76, III./KG 76 and the Zerstörers of ZG 26 unmolested from the Bf 109s. The sudden attacks by the Hurricanes knocked down one Dornier and seriously damaged several others while forcing some of the bombers to miss Kenley and instead drop their loads on rail lines near the airfield and on Croydon airfield. Several Bf 110s were damaged when eight Spitfires of RAF No. 64 Sqd. joined the battle. One of the Zerstörers attacked was that of Rüdiger Proske, who, with his rear gunner wounded and his engines damaged, pretended to 'play dead' in the face of an attack by a Spitfire. Allowing the twin-engined plane to plunge 6,000 feet out of control, Proske regained control and found nobody had followed him down during his death spin. He headed for France.

Instead of being the first to arrive, the twelve Ju 88s of II./KG 76 arrived last to find the target covered in smoke and instead switched to their secondary target, the airfield at West Malling. As the formation passed Biggin Hill, the anti aircraft defense of the airfield damaged a Ju 88 and it was immediately pounced on by RAF fighters. The bomber crashed eight miles south-east of Biggin Hill.

The twelve Hurricanes curved in to attack the formation from above as British anti-aircraft guns opened fire. The first plane to go down was not German but British when one of the attacking Hurricanes spun and dove into the ground. The remaining British fighters pulled up and away from the flak bursts and made for the opposite side of the airfield where the German bombers would exit after attacking the airfield. Despite the murderous fire from below, the Dorniers pressed home their attacks. Soon three hangars were ablaze as bombs scored direct hits. But many of the bombers were severely damaged from the ground fire. Reaching the end of the airfield the German bombers faced another British defense, parachute-and-cable launchers. These were cables shot into the sky and held aloft by small parachutes and weighted with a drag parachute. Launched in rows of nine or more directly in the flight path of a low flying enemy airplane, the cable would create drag on the plane and play havoc with its control, finally forcing it to crash. Upon reaching the edge of the airfield, the Do 17s were greeted with the first salvo of these innovative British defenses. Most of the bombers made it through the cables but one bomber, damaged and on fire from the anti-aircraft guns, was unable to clear the wires. The cables snagged the bomber, the plane stalled and finally crashed to the ground just outside the airfield, killing all on board.

The rest of the bomber formation cleared the cables and airfield only to be bounced by the waiting Hurricanes of RAF No. 111 Sqd. Immediately, two Hurricanes set one bomber on fire and it soon crashed. The rest of the formation scattered and tried to individually make it back to France. Continuing with their attacks as the Dorniers hedge hopped across the English countryside, the Hurricanes were able to seriously damage more of the Dorniers but lost three more fighters to the bomber's defensive fire. Crossing the coast the remaining seven bombers headed to French soil, many smoking, on fire and running on only one engine. Two Dorniers crashed into the Channel on the return flight and two more crashed onto the French coast. One of the bombers that crashed on the coastline was counted to have more than two hundred holes from .303in rounds in its fuselage. Two more landed, wheels down and seriously damaged, at other airfields in France - one piloted by the navigator after the pilot had been killed in his seat. Only one bomber made it back to its airfield at Cormeilles-en-Vexin without serious damage and no injured crewmen.

While the attack by 9./KG 76 was happening, the twenty-seven Dorniers of I./KG 76 and III./KG 76 were having troubles of their own. The first RAF fighters to engage the high flying Dorniers were Hurricanes from RAF No. 615 Sqd. who became entangled with the escorting Messerschmitts of JG 3. The Bf 109s, coming out of the sun, seriously damaged three Hurricanes, killing one of the British pilots. Despite this success, the action allowed the twelve Hurricanes of RAF No. 32 Sqd. to dive and attack the bomber formations of I./KG 76, III./KG 76 and the Zerstörers of ZG 26 unmolested from the Bf 109s. The sudden attacks by the Hurricanes knocked down one Dornier and seriously damaged several others while forcing some of the bombers to miss Kenley and instead drop their loads on rail lines near the airfield and on Croydon airfield. Several Bf 110s were damaged when eight Spitfires of RAF No. 64 Sqd. joined the battle. One of the Zerstörers attacked was that of Rüdiger Proske, who, with his rear gunner wounded and his engines damaged, pretended to 'play dead' in the face of an attack by a Spitfire. Allowing the twin-engined plane to plunge 6,000 feet out of control, Proske regained control and found nobody had followed him down during his death spin. He headed for France.

Instead of being the first to arrive, the twelve Ju 88s of II./KG 76 arrived last to find the target covered in smoke and instead switched to their secondary target, the airfield at West Malling. As the formation passed Biggin Hill, the anti aircraft defense of the airfield damaged a Ju 88 and it was immediately pounced on by RAF fighters. The bomber crashed eight miles south-east of Biggin Hill.

Four Ju 88s and six Do 17s were lost during the attacks on Kenley, with one Ju 88 forcing Flt. Lt. Stanford Tuck, by return fire to bale out of his RAF No. 92 Squadron Spitfire. Despite the heavy attack by KG 76, Kenley was operational again within twenty-four hours. A total of 100 bombs had fallen on the airfield with the result that ten hangers were damaged and fourteen aircraft on the ground destroyed. For the first time the operations room at Kenley was put out of action with the communications cut and nine people killed. Within three days after moving to a new location, operations were back in action.

 

  That was a bloody day but since many of the RAF losses were on the ground or in air losses some of the pilots will have escaped while many of the German losses will be dead or captured in the key area of pilots Britain is possibly ahead.  Even through most of the LW losses were bombers which means their vital Me 109's suffered significantly less. 

  There's also the growing mental and physical strain on each side which I believe was mentioned on the last video you linked to with yesterday's episode.

Thanks will fix it.

[stevep]

   Lordroel

   A couple of queries on the 'this day in history' entry.

August 23rd

1244 – Siege of Jerusalem: The city's citadel, the Tower of David, surrenders to Khwarezmian Empire.

1864 – American Civil War: The Union Navy captures Fort Morgan, Alabama, thus breaking Confederate dominance of all ports on the Gulf of Mexico except Galveston, Texas.

a)  With the 1st the Khwarezmian Empire had actually been destroyed by the Mongols a couple of decades before.  What this force was was a mercenary unit see Khwarazmian_Mercenaries, for more details.  After the death of the last Khwarezmian emperor in 1231 a group of those mercenaries stayed loyal to his memory and they were the force that captured Jerusalem in 1244.

b)  I find the wording of this a bit odd.  Think your saying that this captured the last Confederate port on the Gulf other than Galveston?  Breaking their domination sounds an odd way of saying this but possibly that's just me?

  Steve

PS  Is there a reason why the last two posts have been without any separation between entries?  I find it a bit difficult to read and prefer it with some blank lines if that's OK please?

[lordroel]

Aug 23, 2019 11:09:56 GMT stevep said:

PS  Is there a reason why the last two posts have been without any separation between entries?  I find it a bit difficult to read and prefer it with some blank lines if that's OK please?

Sorry, will make sure the trolls in charge of spacing the years will get to work on the next updates.

[stevep]

   Lordroel

   On today's WWII thread you have:

The first RAF Bomber Command raid on Berlin occurred during the night of 25/26 August. Winston Churchill dispatched an order to Bomber Command that an attack of retaliation be made on Berlin. The participants were: 9 Vickers Wellington Mk Is of No. 99 Squadron based at Newmarket, Suffolk, and 8 Vickers Wellington Mk Is of No. 149 Squadron based at Mildenhall, Suffolk, and 12Handley Page Hampdens Mk Is of No. 61 and No. 144 Squadrons, both based at Hemswell, Lincolnshire, and 9 Armstrong Whitworth Whitley Mk Vs of No. 51 Squadron (4 Group) and 5 Whitley Mk Vs of No 78 Squadron (4 Group), both based at Dishforth, Yorkshire. Whitley and Wellington crews were told that their main target "is the Siemens and Halske factory at Siemenstadt, producing 85% of the electrical power used by the German forces." Hampden crews were told to demolish Berlin's Klingenberg power station. Other objectives were the Henschel Aircraft Factory, the Bucker training aircraft factory at Rangsdorf, Tempelhof aerodrome and Tegel's gasworks. The head of the Air Staff of the RAF, Sir Charles Portal, justified these raids by saying that to...

  It looks like there is something missing from the end here.  As a side issue, assuming those figures are accurate then destroying those facilities would have hurt the Germans significantly but they don't have the weight of attack and even in 45 they didn't have the accuracy.   Otherwise the war could have been over a hell of a lot earlier, although probably with a lot more of Europe under Soviet occupation.

  Also I wouldn't have mentioned it otherwise but the paragraph

At the same time, there was a small skirmish over Dover where a Staffel of Bf 110s again bombed the harbour and docks, but fighters from Gravesend and Biggin Hill chased them back out over the Channel. During the battle over the Isle of Wight, III./JG 2 lost three Bf 109s destroyed by British fighters. All three pilots survived though they were severely wounded. But JG 2 succeeded in claiming its 250th victory of the war while Oblt. Helmut Wick got his nineteenth and twentieth victories.

  Since I doubt that either side had the fighter range at this stage for a battle off Dover to end up over the Isle of Wight those are two different encounters.  Did you mean to put them together?

  Steve

[lordroel]

Aug 25, 2019 10:06:26 GMT stevep said:

   Lordroel

   On today's WWII thread you have:

The first RAF Bomber Command raid on Berlin occurred during the night of 25/26 August. Winston Churchill dispatched an order to Bomber Command that an attack of retaliation be made on Berlin. The participants were: 9 Vickers Wellington Mk Is of No. 99 Squadron based at Newmarket, Suffolk, and 8 Vickers Wellington Mk Is of No. 149 Squadron based at Mildenhall, Suffolk, and 12Handley Page Hampdens Mk Is of No. 61 and No. 144 Squadrons, both based at Hemswell, Lincolnshire, and 9 Armstrong Whitworth Whitley Mk Vs of No. 51 Squadron (4 Group) and 5 Whitley Mk Vs of No 78 Squadron (4 Group), both based at Dishforth, Yorkshire. Whitley and Wellington crews were told that their main target "is the Siemens and Halske factory at Siemenstadt, producing 85% of the electrical power used by the German forces." Hampden crews were told to demolish Berlin's Klingenberg power station. Other objectives were the Henschel Aircraft Factory, the Bucker training aircraft factory at Rangsdorf, Tempelhof aerodrome and Tegel's gasworks. The head of the Air Staff of the RAF, Sir Charles Portal, justified these raids by saying that to...

  It looks like there is something missing from the end here.  As a side issue, assuming those figures are accurate then destroying those facilities would have hurt the Germans significantly but they don't have the weight of attack and even in 45 they didn't have the accuracy.   Otherwise the war could have been over a hell of a lot earlier, although probably with a lot more of Europe under Soviet occupation.

  Also I wouldn't have mentioned it otherwise but the paragraph

At the same time, there was a small skirmish over Dover where a Staffel of Bf 110s again bombed the harbour and docks, but fighters from Gravesend and Biggin Hill chased them back out over the Channel. During the battle over the Isle of Wight, III./JG 2 lost three Bf 109s destroyed by British fighters. All three pilots survived though they were severely wounded. But JG 2 succeeded in claiming its 250th victory of the war while Oblt. Helmut Wick got his nineteenth and twentieth victories.

  Since I doubt that either side had the fighter range at this stage for a battle off Dover to end up over the Isle of Wight those are two different encounters.  Did you mean to put them together?

  Steve

Let me check with the troll in charge,

Yep, you are right stevep, something was missing, it was a quote which i have edit in.

[stevep]

Aug 25, 2019 10:10:09 GMT lordroel said:

Aug 25, 2019 10:06:26 GMT stevep said:

   Lordroel

   On today's WWII thread you have:

  It looks like there is something missing from the end here.  As a side issue, assuming those figures are accurate then destroying those facilities would have hurt the Germans significantly but they don't have the weight of attack and even in 45 they didn't have the accuracy.   Otherwise the war could have been over a hell of a lot earlier, although probably with a lot more of Europe under Soviet occupation.

  Also I wouldn't have mentioned it otherwise but the paragraph

  Since I doubt that either side had the fighter range at this stage for a battle off Dover to end up over the Isle of Wight those are two different encounters.  Did you mean to put them together?

  Steve

Let me check with the troll in charge,

Yep, you are right stevep , something was missing, it was a quote which i have edit in.

  Lordroel

  Thanks.  Just checking the WWII entry and it includes the line.

The last of the French forts surrounding the city of Namur fort are silenced.

  Assuming this should be Belgium rather than French?

  Also on the entry

During the night of August 24/25th, the French continued a bombardment and Castelnau concentrated the Second Army against the centre of the 6th Army and launched an early morning attack to take Rozelieures, the attack succeeded but the Germans counter-attacked and retook Rozelieures. Castelnau now again attacked both German flanks with the XV Corps and XVI Corps. This had a devastating effect on the morale of the Bavarians, who had expected to be in pursuit of a defeated enemy. The Bavarian centre was kept under constant artillery fire by the French and at 3:00 p.m., the French regained Rozelieures from the 6th Army, which suffered casualties of 2,500 men killed.

  There is a map following which seems to be of the battle since the armies mentioned are displayed there.   However unless I'm missing something I can't see Rozelieures mentioned at all?  Possibly, if I'm not doing something stupid, the paragraph and map are from different sources?

  If your not aware the reason Horace_Smith-Dorrien_World_War_1 had only just taken over 2nd Corp it was because of the untimely death of James_Grierson, who was reportedly very knowledgeable about the German army but had health problems because he was very overweight and died of an aortic aneurysm on the 17th August.  His death was a double loss both because of his knowledge and the fact that French had a personal hostility towards Smith-Dorrien - albeit it also have differences with Grierson - not a very capable man by most accounts.  A pity that he was in charge of the BEF and then that when he was replaced we ended up with Haig.

  Anyway thanks again for the excellent details.

  Steve

  PS  Sorry I should have mentioned but I'm a bit dubious about the reported Germans disguised as French

Early a.m. August 25th: Von Kluck received a new air report showing the British moving in almost the opposite direction. At once new orders were given. The German III Korps pushed southeastward through the Forest of Mormal as the advanced guard pushed south. Skirmishes occurred at the towns of Maroilles and Landrices. At Landrices, as General Sir Douglas Haig's men of I Corps were entering the town they came upon a body of troops wearing French uniforms. When questioned, the officer in charge answered in French. Haig's men found nothing strange and continued down the road. Without warning, the French soldiers lowered their bayonets and charged. These were not French but men of von Kluck's IVth Korps. This dastardly trick caught the British off guard and a fight ensued that comprised about 2 regiments and a gun battery. Under the cloak of darkness Haig thought he was under attack from a much larger force. He telephoned HQ: "heavy attack ...send help... situation very critical." Haig was normally a cool headed thinker, this report worried Sir John and he believed I Corps to be in grave danger. He now feared envelopment; he sent the order for Haig and his men to retreat. Haig's exaggerated report caused Sir John to panic, and he believed now more than ever the retreat must continue.

  I know the Germans got up to so nasty things during the war but never heard of this before and it does sound like one of the sort of propaganda stories that emerged during the early part of the war. 

[lordroel]

Aug 25, 2019 10:29:12 GMT stevep said:

Aug 25, 2019 10:10:09 GMT lordroel said:

Let me check with the troll in charge,

Yep, you are right stevep , something was missing, it was a quote which i have edit in.

  Lordroel

  Thanks.  Just checking the WWII entry and it includes the line.

The last of the French forts surrounding the city of Namur fort are silenced.

  Assuming this should be Belgium rather than French?

  Also on the entry

During the night of August 24/25th, the French continued a bombardment and Castelnau concentrated the Second Army against the centre of the 6th Army and launched an early morning attack to take Rozelieures, the attack succeeded but the Germans counter-attacked and retook Rozelieures. Castelnau now again attacked both German flanks with the XV Corps and XVI Corps. This had a devastating effect on the morale of the Bavarians, who had expected to be in pursuit of a defeated enemy. The Bavarian centre was kept under constant artillery fire by the French and at 3:00 p.m., the French regained Rozelieures from the 6th Army, which suffered casualties of 2,500 men killed.

  There is a map following which seems to be of the battle since the armies mentioned are displayed there.   However unless I'm missing something I can't see Rozelieures mentioned at all?  Possibly, if I'm not doing something stupid, the paragraph and map are from different sources?

  If your not aware the reason Horace_Smith-Dorrien_World_War_1 had only just taken over 2nd Corp it was because of the untimely death of James_Grierson, who was reportedly very knowledgeable about the German army but had health problems because he was very overweight and died of an aortic aneurysm on the 17th August.  His death was a double loss both because of his knowledge and the fact that French had a personal hostility towards Smith-Dorrien - albeit it also have differences with Grierson - not a very capable man by most accounts.  A pity that he was in charge of the BEF and then that when he was replaced we ended up with Haig.

  Anyway thanks again for the excellent details.

  Steve

Thanks fro the spotting stevep , yep that should be Belguim, will fix it.

About the Battle of Battle of the Trouée de Charmes got the map from: Wikipedia called Battle of the Trouée de Charmes.

Again, sorry if the details might go wrong sometimes, there is so much happening at once, try to do my best together with my trolls but it seems we might make some mistakes until things have settle down in the future of the war.

[stevep]

Aug 25, 2019 10:40:51 GMT lordroel said:

Aug 25, 2019 10:29:12 GMT stevep said:

  Lordroel

  Thanks.  Just checking the WWII entry and it includes the line.

  Assuming this should be Belgium rather than French?

  Also on the entry

  There is a map following which seems to be of the battle since the armies mentioned are displayed there.   However unless I'm missing something I can't see Rozelieures mentioned at all?  Possibly, if I'm not doing something stupid, the paragraph and map are from different sources?

  If your not aware the reason Horace_Smith-Dorrien_World_War_1 had only just taken over 2nd Corp it was because of the untimely death of James_Grierson, who was reportedly very knowledgeable about the German army but had health problems because he was very overweight and died of an aortic aneurysm on the 17th August.  His death was a double loss both because of his knowledge and the fact that French had a personal hostility towards Smith-Dorrien - albeit it also have differences with Grierson - not a very capable man by most accounts.  A pity that he was in charge of the BEF and then that when he was replaced we ended up with Haig.

  Anyway thanks again for the excellent details.

  Steve

Thanks fro the spotting stevep , yep that should be Belguim, will fix it.

About the Battle of Battle of the Trouée de Charmes got the map from: Wikipedia called Battle of the Trouée de Charmes.

Again, sorry if the details might go wrong sometimes, there is so much happening at once, try to do my best together with my trolls but it seems we might make some mistakes until things have settle down in the future of the war.

  Lordroel

  No problem.  Your putting in a lot of work and providing a valuable record that could be very useful for writers of future TLs as there's a lot of information neatly coordinated by date there.  With the scale of the projects and the fact your updating them daily some things are bound to slip through.  I did add a PS to my previous post that I suspect another paragraph is a propaganda story or possibly some serious misunderstanding by tired and confused troops. - Where some Germans disguised as French forces attacked some of Haig's 1st Corp men.

  Steve

[lordroel]

Aug 25, 2019 10:46:04 GMT stevep said:

Aug 25, 2019 10:40:51 GMT lordroel said:

Thanks fro the spotting stevep , yep that should be Belguim, will fix it.

About the Battle of Battle of the Trouée de Charmes got the map from: Wikipedia called Battle of the Trouée de Charmes.

Again, sorry if the details might go wrong sometimes, there is so much happening at once, try to do my best together with my trolls but it seems we might make some mistakes until things have settle down in the future of the war.

  Lordroel

  No problem.  Your putting in a lot of work and providing a valuable record that could be very useful for writers of future TLs as there's a lot of information neatly coordinated by date there.  With the scale of the projects and the fact your updating them daily some things are bound to slip through.  I did add a PS to my previous post that I suspect another paragraph is a propaganda story or possibly some serious misunderstanding by tired and confused troops. - Where some Germans disguised as French forces attacked some of Haig's 1st Corp men.

  Steve

I try to work a month ahead of the Great War, this allow me to update and add stuff to them op onto the day i need to publish them, the same goes for the Second World War timeline, also i have completed the Cuban missile Crisis project and which i find very good, i am now thinking depending if i get enough information to work on and begin the Gulf War - Operation Desert Storm in real time projecht.

I also have the Spanish-America War under consideration, that is if i get daily events for it.