Alternate 1990s ORBAT

[lordroel]

May 12, 2020 12:52:28 GMT forcon said:

May 12, 2020 10:35:51 GMT simon darkshade said:

With an ongoing threat, it would be more likely to see the EF-15 than adopting a Navy bird. The F-111s could stick around a bit longer.

That's my thinking. The EF-111 could be kept in service till the late nineties, but the EF-15 would eventually have to replace it. 

i can see the F-14 still in service getting the Tomcat 21 upgrade.

This Is What Grumman's Proposed F-14 Super Tomcat 21 Would Have Actually Looked Like

[James G]

Why an EF-15 over an EF-16?
There have been past proposals to have an RF-16. I think it would be cheaper to have a F-16 based aircraft too and Congress will always want to have lower costs.

[forcon]

May 12, 2020 16:59:20 GMT James G said:

Why an EF-15 over an EF-16?
There have been past proposals to have an RF-16. I think it would be cheaper to have a F-16 based aircraft too and Congress will always want to have lower costs.

I could go with the RF-16. I thought the RF-16 already existed as a prototype reconnaissance version of the original F-16 though?

[forcon]

May 12, 2020 14:20:49 GMT lordroel said:

May 12, 2020 12:52:28 GMT forcon said:

That's my thinking. The EF-111 could be kept in service till the late nineties, but the EF-15 would eventually have to replace it. 

i can see the F-14 still in service getting the Tomcat 21 upgrade.

This Is What Grumman's Proposed F-14 Super Tomcat 21 Would Have Actually Looked Like

I do like the idea of the Super Tomact, but I don't think Congress would go for it. Maybe the F-14 would have been upgraded to stray in service throughout the noughties, but I can't see it happening now. Plus I've written the Navy fighter squadrons to have a mixture of Super Hornets and Lighting IIs. 

[lordroel]

May 12, 2020 17:39:45 GMT forcon said:

May 12, 2020 14:20:49 GMT lordroel said:

i can see the F-14 still in service getting the Tomcat 21 upgrade.

This Is What Grumman's Proposed F-14 Super Tomcat 21 Would Have Actually Looked Like

I do like the idea of the Super Tomact, but I don't think Congress would go for it. Maybe the F-14 would have been upgraded to stray in service throughout the noughties, but I can't see it happening now. Plus I've written the Navy fighter squadrons to have a mixture of Super Hornets and Lighting IIs. 

So F-35s get into service much earlier than OTL it seems.

[forcon]

Nope, a bigger multinational EuroCorps instead.

[lordroel]

May 17, 2020 7:41:32 GMT forcon said:

Nope, a bigger multinational EuroCorps instead.

Made up of the Dutch, French and Germans i presume.

[stevep]

May 17, 2020 7:42:12 GMT lordroel said:

May 17, 2020 7:41:32 GMT forcon said:

Nope, a bigger multinational EuroCorps instead.

Made up of the Dutch, French and Germans i presume.

  Plus Belgium and I presume the DN is Danish, along with some presence for Luxembourg.

[lordroel]

May 17, 2020 10:51:48 GMT stevep said:

May 17, 2020 7:42:12 GMT lordroel said:

Made up of the Dutch, French and Germans i presume.

  Plus Belgium and I presume the DN is Danish, along with some presence for Luxembourg.

Seems to me that EuroCorps is mostly a administrative unit and not a real line front coprs.

[forcon]

Russian Ground Forces 

Western Military District 

• 1st Independent Motorised Rifle Regiment
• 1st Engineer Brigade
• 16th Electronic Warfare Brigade
• 27th Nuclear, Biological & Chemical Warfare Brigade
• 29th Railway Brigade
• 34th Railway Brigade
• 38th Railway brigade
• 45th Engineering Regiment
• 45th Guards Engineering Brigade
• 79th Rocket Artillery Brigade (SS-26)
• 132nd Signals Brigade

98th Guards Airborne Division
• Airborne Regiment (BMD-3)
• Airborne Regiment (BMD-3)
• Airborne Regiment (BMD-3)

106th Guards Airborne Division
• Airborne Regiment (BMD-3)
• Airborne Regiment (BMD-3)
• Airborne Regiment (BMD-3)

I. 1st Guards Tank Army 

• 20th Nuclear, Biological & Chemical Warfare Regiment
• 53rd Anti-Aircraft Rocket Brigade (SA-11 & SA-15)
• 96th Reconnaissance Brigade
• 60th Control Brigade
• 112th Rocket Artillery Brigade (SS-26)
• 288th Artillery Brigade (BM-27)

2nd Guards Motorised Rifle Division
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-3)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-3)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BTR-80)
• Tank Regiment (T-99A)

4th Guards Tank Division
• Tank Regiment (T-99A)
• Tank Regiment (T-99A)
• Tank Regiment (T-99A)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-3)

6th Tank Division
• Tank Regiment (T-90S)
• Tank Regiment (T-90S)
• Tank Regiment (T-90S)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-3)

27th Guards Motorised Rifle Division
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-3)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-3)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BTR-80)
• Tank Regiment (T-90S)

II. 2nd Guards Tank Army 

• 2nd Nuclear, Biological & Chemical Warfare Regiment
• 53rd Electronic Warfare Regiment
• 91st Control Brigade
• 105th Engineering Regiment
• 297th Anti-Aircraft Rocket Brigade (SA-11 & SA-15)
• 950th Guards Rocket Artillery Regiment (SS-26 & BM-21)

21st Guards Motorised Rifle Division
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BTR-80)
• Tank Regiment (T-72B)

30th Guards Tank Division
• Tank Regiment (T-80OU)
• Tank Regiment (T-80OU)
• Tank Regiment (T-80OU)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-3)

90th Guards Tank Division
• Tank Regiment (T-90S)
• Tank Regiment (T-90S)
• Tank Regiment (T-90S)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-3)

94th Guards Motorised Rifle Division
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BTR-80)
• Tank Regiment (T-80OU)

III. 11th Army Corps 

• 25th Coastal Rocket Brigade (K-300P)
• 152nd Guards Rocket Artillery Brigade (SS-26)
• 183rd Coastal Rocket Brigade
• 244th Guards Artillery Brigade (BM-21)
• 302nd Radio-Electronic Signals Regiment (K-300P)
• 366th Guards Naval Infantry Brigade (T-90S, BMD-3, BTR-82)

1st Motorised Rifle Division
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BTR-80)
• Tank Regiment (T-72)

IV. 20th Guards Combined Arms Army 

• 9th Control Brigade
• 19th Engineering Regiment
• 49th Anti-Aircraft Rocket Brigade (SA-22 & SA-15)
• 99th Reconnaissance Brigade
• 448th Rocket Artillery Brigade (SS-26)

3rd Motorised Rifle Division
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-3)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-3)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BTR-80)
• Tank Regiment (T-90S)

23rd Guards Tank Division
• Tank Regiment (T-99A)
• Tank Regiment (T-99A)
• Tank Regiment (T-99A)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-3)

144th Guards Motorised Rifle Division
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-3)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-3)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BTR-80)
• Tank Regiment (T-90A)

Central-Siberian Military District 

• 12th Guards Engineering Brigade
• 18th Electronic Warfare Brigade
• 29th Nuclear, Biological & Chemical Warfare Regiment
• 179th Communications Brigade

I. 28th Combined Arms Army 

• 5th Control Regiment
• 71st Electronic Warfare Regiment
• 290th Artillery Brigade (SS-21 & BM-21)
• 300th Anti-Aircraft Rocket Artillery Brigade (SA_8 & SA-11)
• 480th Engineering Brigade

55th Motorised Rifle Division
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BTR-80)
• Tank Regiment (T-72B)

74th Motorised Rifle Division
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BTR-80)
• Tank Regiment (T-72B)

II. 41st Combined Arms Army 

• 10th Nuclear, Biological & Chemical Warfare Regiment
• 35th Control Brigade
• 61st Anti-Aircraft Rocket Artillery Brigade (SA-8 & SA-11)
• 106th Engineering Brigade
• 119th Guards Rocket Artillery Brigade (SS-21)
• 120th Guards Artillery Brigade (BM-21)

35th Motorised Rifle Division
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BTR-80)
• Tank Regiment (T-72B)

85th Guards Motorised Rifle Division
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BTR-80)
• Tank Regiment (T-72B)

122nd Guards Motorised Rifle Division
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-3)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-3)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BTR-80)
• Tank Regiment (T-80OU)

Southern Military District 

• 11th Guards Engineering Brigade
• 28th Nuclear, Biological & Chemical Warfare Brigade
• 37th Railway Brigade
• 39th Railway Brigade
• 439th Guards Rocket Artillery Brigade (SS-26)
• 1270th Electronic Warfare Regiment

I. 8th Guards Combined Arms Army 

• 152nd Control Brigade
• 176th Engineering Brigade
• 464th Rocket Artillery Brigade (SS-26)
• 988th Anti-Aircraft Rocket Artillery Regiment (SA-15 & SA-22)

20th Guards Motorised Rifle Division
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-3)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-3)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BTR-80)
• Tank Regiment (T-90S)

150th Motorised Rifle Division
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-3)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-3)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BTR-80)
• Tank Regiment (T-80OU)

207th Motorised Rifle Division
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BTR-80)
• Tank Regiment (T-80OU)

II. 49th Combined Arms Army 

• 1st Guards Rocket Artillery Brigade (SS-21)
• 21st Nuclear, Biological & Chemical Warfare Regiment
• 66th Control Brigade
• 154th Electronic Warfare Brigade
• 227th Anti-Aircraft Rocket Artillery Brigade (SA-8 & SA-11)
• 439th Guards Artillery Brigade (BM-26)

34th Motorised Rifle Division
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BTR-80)
• Tank Regiment (T-72B)

73rd Motorised Rifle Division
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BTR-80)
• Tank Regiment (T-80OU)

76th Motorised Rifle Division
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BTR-80)
• Tank Regiment (T-72B)

III. 58th Combined Arms Army 

• 14th Electronic Warfare Regiment
• 31st Engineer Regiment
• 40th Nuclear, Biological & Chemical Warfare Brigade
• 67th Anti-Aircraft Rocket Artillery Regiment (SA-22 & SA-15)
• 100th Reconnaissance Brigade
• 291st Artillery Brigade (BM-26)

19th Motorised Rifle Division
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Tank Regiment (T-72B)

42nd Guards Motorised Rifle Division
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Tank Regiment (T-80OU)

136th Guards Motorised Rifle Division
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Tank Regiment (T-80OU)

Far Eastern Military District 

• 8th Air Defence Rocket Artillery Brigade (SA-20 & SA-11)
• 16th Nuclear, Biological & Chemical Warfare Brigade
• 17th Electronic Warfare Brigade
• 156th Signal Regiment
• 2463rd Engineering Regiment

I. 5th Combined Arms Army 

• 20th Guards Rocket Artillery Brigade (SS-26)
• 25th Nuclear, Biological & Chemical Warfare Brigade
• 79th Signal Regiment
• 80th Control Brigade
• 101st Engineering Brigade
• 641st Air Defence Rocket Artillery Regiment (SA-15 & SA-22)

70th Motorised Rifle Division
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-3)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-3)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BTR-80)
• Tank Regiment (T-99A)

57th Motorised Rifle Division
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-3)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-3)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BTR-80)
• Tank Regiment (T-90S)

127th Motorised Rifle Division
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-3)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-3)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BTR-80)
• Tank Regiment (T-90S)

II. 29th Combined Arms Army 

• 3rd Artillery Brigade (BM-26)
• 19th Nuclear, Biological & Chemical Warfare Regiment
• 101st Control Brigade
• 104th Engineer Brigade
• 140th Anti-Aircraft Rocket Artillery Brigade (SA-8 & SA-11)

27th Motorised Rifle Division
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Tank Regiment (T-80OU)

34th Tank Division
• Tank Regiment (T-72B)
• Tank Regiment (T-72B)
• Tank Regiment (T-72B)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)

109th Motorised Rifle Division
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Tank Regiment (T-80OU)

III. 35th Combined Arms Army 

• 37th Engineering Regiment
• 71st Anti-Aircraft Rocket Artillery Regiment (SA-11 & SA-15)
• 54th Signal Regiment
• 104th Control Brigade
• 122nd Nuclear, Biological & Chemical Warfare Regiment
• 338th Guards Artillery Brigade (BM-26)

38th Motorised Rifle Division
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-3)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-3)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BTR-80)
• Tank Regiment (T-80OU)

39th Motorised Rifle Division
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-3)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-3)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BTR-80)
• Tank Regiment (T-80OU)

64th Motorised Rifle Division
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BTR-80)
• Tank Regiment (T-72S)

Northern Military District 

• 61st Guards Naval Infantry Brigade (T-90S, BMD-3, BTR-82)
• 536th Coastal Rocket Artillery brigade (K-300P)

I. 6th Combined Arms Army 

• 5th Anti-Aircraft Rocket Brigade (SA-8 & SA-11)
• 9th Guards Artillery Brigade (BM-21)
• 50th Guards Engineering Regiment
• 95th Control Brigade

25th Motorised Rifle Division
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-2)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BTR-80)
• Tank Regiment (T-72S)

76th Guards Airborne Division
• Airborne Regiment (BMD-3)
• Airborne Regiment (BMD-3)
• Airborne Regiment (BMD-3)

138th Motorised Rifle Division
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-3)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-3)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BTR-80)
• Tank Regiment (T-80OU)

Operational Group of Forces – Central Asia 

I. 40th Combined Arms Army 

• 100th Control Regiment
• 502nd Rocket Artillery Brigade (SS-26)
• 781st Anti-Aircraft Rocket Artillery Brigade (SA-20 & SA-15)

7th Guards Airborne Division
• Airborne Regiment (BMD-3)
• Airborne Regiment (BMD-3)
• Airborne Regiment (BMD-3)

201st Motorised Rifle Division
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-3)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BMP-3)
• Motorised Rifle Regiment (BTR-80)
• Tank Regiment (T-80OU)

[forcon]

What do you guys think about the possibility of the US Army Reserve raising a combat Division or two in this TL?

My thinking is that a Mechanized Infantry Division could exist as part of the 5th Army or as a round out force for one of the active duty corps? Or a light infantry Division?

[lordroel]

Jun 1, 2020 8:59:10 GMT forcon said:

What do you guys think about the possibility of the US Army Reserve raising a combat Division or two in this TL?

My thinking is that a Mechanized Infantry Division could exist as part of the 5th Army or as a round out force for one of the active duty corps? Or a light infantry Division?

Is the US Army Reserve not there to augment the National Guard and Regular Army units, would them having thier own divisions not mean you remove manpower from those two forces.

[simon darkshade]

It is quite doable; the removal of the USAR combat divisions under McNamara wasn’t without controversy. It would probably be easier (cheaper) to have it as an infantry division rather than a mechanised one.

[forcon]

Jun 1, 2020 9:36:13 GMT simon darkshade said:

It is quite doable; the removal of the USAR combat divisions under McNamara wasn’t without controversy. It would probably be easier (cheaper) to have it as an infantry division rather than a mechanised one.

My thinking is a single division, probably with a USAR HQ and a mixture of NG and USAR combat elements, probably a mixed division like the 9th Infantry during the 80s, with the 157th Mech Brigade, an ARNG mech brigade, and a USAR mixed brigade with some light armor and air assault units. I'll have a draft ORBAT up soon. 

[James G]

The 23rd Infantry Division is a special one. It was raised in the Pacific for WW2 and then re-raised for Vietnam, deactivated at the end of that conflict. In a new scenario, it would be raised only in special circumstances and after lower number units.